How does Microtech get away with this?

[Floatingby]

That’s weird. What model is it? Have you resharpened it? I have a 0909, among others, that hold a great edge (especially after the first sharpening)…. Could be a geometry thing too… my 0909 gets pretty thin and slicey near the edge because of the tall blade. A lot of knives will perform much better after a sharpening,
a). To get rid of any burnt edge that was put on by a belt at the factory… and
B.) a lot of times the factory angle is around 23-25°…. Knock it down to around 20° and you’ll get much better performance that way too.

There's a whole saga around that knife, which include sending it back to the factory where they claimed that the blade "meet their standard", but they wanted 40 bucks to install a new one on, while upon return it was obvious that they did not perform any kind of test whatsoever on it. And prior to that me trying all kind of different sharpening angles(I use a kme system), to no avail. While I can get it extremely sharp, steel is just too soft to hold it for any kind of cutting time. It's junk.

 

[Terry M.]

There's a whole saga around that knife, which include sending it back to the factory where they claimed that the blade "meet their standard", but they wanted 40 bucks to install a new one on, while upon return it was obvious that they did not perform any kind of test whatsoever on it. And prior to that me trying all kind of different sharpening angles(I use a kme system), to no avail. While I can get it extremely sharp, steel is just too soft to hold it for any kind of cutting time. It's junk.

That would definitely sour me on ZT also.

 

[tony281sc2]

There's a whole saga around that knife, which include sending it back to the factory where they claimed that the blade "meet their standard", but they wanted 40 bucks to install a new one on, while upon return it was obvious that they did not perform any kind of test whatsoever on it. And prior to that me trying all kind of different sharpening angles(I use a kme system), to no avail. While I can get it extremely sharp, steel is just too soft to hold it for any kind of cutting time. It's junk.

That sucks :-/ do you remember the model number ? Just curious

 

[tony281sc2]

Perhaps I should give Elmax another chance. I just can’t seem to get beyond it For some reason. It’s like a mental block. Like I said, irrational

I like it. But I like their S35VN for the most part as well. I have a 0566 and an 0801 (that I gifted to a friend), both held a good edge. Back then I used a KO belt sharpening system, but I still have my Elmax 0566, and the steel performs good IMO (the 0566 is only .120” thick and pretty slicey for what it is)
According to Dr. Larrins testing, Elmax performs the same as S45VN….

 

[Floatingby]

That sucks :-/ do you remember the model number ? Just curious

Yeah, just got it in the mail yesterday from Kai, it's an 0450


And sorry for the thread diversion.

 

[tony281sc2]

Yeah, just got it in the mail yesterday from Kai, it's an 0450


And sorry for the thread diversion.

Ah ok, that makes more sense. The Sinkevich designs, though gorgeous, tend to be rather thick behind the edge. Not much height for the blade to drop down to a thin edge.

 

[nevertakeadayoff]

Wow, this is news to me. The steel type is the most significant characteristic I desire on a knife. Considering that I only EDC Manix, it is 90-100% of the reason for the purchase.

 

[Floatingby]

Ah ok, that makes more sense. The Sinkevich designs, though gorgeous, tend to be rather thick behind the edge. Not much height for the blade to drop down to a thin edge.

It is between 0.036" to 0.041"(toward the point, which make sense) as measured with a micrometer right behing the edge.
For comparison, my Spyderco's run an average 0.028", so a bit thinner yes, but my Griptilian in 154 CM runs at 0.042"(consistent on that particular one) and it cuts like a mofo and hold it for a long time.
It's more of an optical thing, the blade behing narrow so having an accute angle to reach the cutting edge, but the edge itself isn't that thick, I would call it average.

 

[tony281sc2]

It is between 0.036" to 0.041"(toward the point, which make sense) as measured with a micrometer right behing the edge.
For comparison, my Spyderco's run an average 0.028", so a bit thinner yes, but my Griptilian in 154 CM runs at 0.042"(consistent on that particular one) and it cuts like a mofo and hold it for a long time.
It's more of an optical thing, the blade behing narrow so having an accute angle to reach the cutting edge, but the edge itself isn't that thick, I would call it average.

Wow I didn’t realize the Griptilians were as thick BTE. I have one of the old 154CM Grips too, and it does cut well and holds the edge. Good steel, and a good heat treat I’m guessing

 

[Floatingby]

Wow I didn’t realize the Griptilians were as thick BTE. I have one of the old 154CM Grips too, and it does cut well and holds the edge. Good steel, and a good heat treat I’m guessing

Well, my Griptilian has seen the sharpening stones a few times, so it was probably more in the low to mid 30 thousandth of an inch when new. Still cut like mofo though.

But personnaly, given the choice of superior steel but poorly heat treated, or a properly heat treated inferior steel, I'd go for the properly heat treated one's any day of the week. For example, Buck were able to extract very good performance out of the lowly 420 series stainless by using a good heat treatment procedure. Not as good as properly heat treated modern exotic steel, sure, but certainly better than poorly heat treated one's.

 

[DocJekl]

Perhaps I should give Elmax another chance. I just can’t seem to get beyond it For some reason. It’s like a mental block. Like I said, irrational

I had extremely good Elmax edge retention with no chipping on my first Guardian Tactical Recon 035, to the point that I carried it with only an SAK as my spare for a year solid and never needed to sharpen it. After a while I started carrying a variety of other knives, including a tanto version off that knife; so I sold the original to Danny Linguini with the factory edge, and it got carried a lot but was quite sharp when he received it.

 

[DocJekl]

There's a whole saga around that knife, which include sending it back to the factory where they claimed that the blade "meet their standard", but they wanted 40 bucks to install a new one on, while upon return it was obvious that they did not perform any kind of test whatsoever on it. And prior to that me trying all kind of different sharpening angles(I use a kme system), to no avail. While I can get it extremely sharp, steel is just too soft to hold it for any kind of cutting time. It's junk.

If I had gone through all the trouble to send back a knife that I was not happy with, I'd have likely sucked it up and paid the $40 hoping for a better steel, unless I was certain I would sell it or give it away upon it return.

 

[brownshoe]

The steel doesn’t matter, the heat treat is not optimal, they bank on people never using these knives

My two microtechs in 204 m390 have excellent heat treats and get used.

 

[Slice O Life]

The steel doesn’t matter, the heat treat is not optimal, they bank on people never using these knives

People in general never use their knives to their full potential, most people could get by with a Opinel. Microtech still should give a better heat treat than Spyderco for the price. From what I've seen Microtech runs 58-60 HRC. Spyderco gets in the 60s. So Spydercos is better by a lot for cheaper usually.

They don't really seem to test well in cut tests in terms of edge retention, but they still undoubtably cut.

Maybe since they market them as being tough, they do a lower HRC so that they are tougher and easier to sharpen. Perhaps though I would pick a different steel if they are chasing those qualities. 20CV's family of steels has a good amount of corrosion resistance however. If they heat treat Magnacut right, I think that would be a great choice too. I have yet to see a Magnacut test from one of Microtech's BladeHQ exclusive Ultratechs, or an HRC test of one. I would love to see either though. There is this BladeHQ test, but obviously they are a seller so take it as you may.

They seem to be tough knives, I have never really used one to pry open a car door though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Cts8rNCgoo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFwVvoA6Xxs

 

[whereismyknife]

They have one knife that is a colab with Rikeknife called the Socom Bravo. The rest of their stuff is domestic.

I think there is another model you forgot. It's also a co-production with rike. I think the model name is anax.
Edit: of course someone should have written it before. I love this forum.

 

[SALTY]

I've had and have a couple of Microtech knives. I like their design but avoid the company due to customer service horror stories and their proprietary hardware. Nice designs but I'll pass.

As for the exact type of premium steel used, we are a special lot on this forum - caring more about such things than the average knife buyer, even at this price point. That being said, the premium steel de jour, disclosed upon request depending on stock available, beats the alternative of a certain knife company that makes very nice looking knives with really nice looking handles and quality sheaths that reportedly advertised steel "ABC" but made their knives out of "XYZ" or whatever that head and presumably got a good deal on.

 

[tony281sc2]

Well, my Griptilian has seen the sharpening stones a few times, so it was probably more in the low to mid 30 thousandth of an inch when new. Still cut like mofo though.

But personnaly, given the choice of superior steel but poorly heat treated, or a properly heat treated inferior steel, I'd go for the properly heat treated one's any day of the week. For example, Buck were able to extract very good performance out of the lowly 420 series stainless by using a good heat treatment procedure. Not as good as properly heat treated modern exotic steel, sure, but certainly better than poorly heat treated one's.

Depends what steel and what the HRC is. I was talking to Larrin not long ago and he said he thought it was weird people want to see M390/20CV above 60,61. It gets chippy that high, if you don’t believe me search for threads of people chipping it on knives with these so called “superior” heat treats. Buck does a good job for sure. Larrin was also saying S35VN actually makes more sense at a higher HRC than M390 since it is tougher (and perhaps 154CM as well?, idk..)

 

[K.O.D.]

I have a feeling the S90V on my ZT 0095 is run a bit soft. I do use it quite a bit (carried it yesterday for Black Sabbath) but to be honest, most of my production knives seem to be a little softer than optimal. S35VN has been probably the biggest culprit of being run soft.

My Spyderco Manix 2 is a sprint run in CTS-XHP and I get the feeling that their sprint runs tend to have more optimal heat treatment, and Spyderco in general seems to do better than most.

I have quite a few knives in M390/20CV/204p and I must say, my Cheburkov blows them all out of the water. Which, to me, makes the premium price more acceptable.

I've yet to own a Microtechs, but I've handled quite a few. I love the Star Wars models, but am extremely turned off by the Ultratech series lanyard hole/glass breaker dingus. At the end of the day, I just don't think I'll ever own a Microtech. Between customer service issues, suspect steel, and the aforementioned make them unappealing. A Star Wars version of the Hera might change my mind.

 

[Yo Mama]

I've yet to own a Microtechs, but I've handled quite a few. I love the Star Wars models, but am extremely turned off by the Ultratech series lanyard hole/glass breaker dingus. At the end of the day, I just don't think I'll ever own a Microtech. Between customer service issues, suspect steel, and the aforementioned make them unappealing. A Star Wars version of the Hera might change my mind.

Whoah man, cs from Microtech is top notch, has been for years, I know in the past it wasn't so, but they have been solid for a while. You can change out the glass breaker to a flat head if you wish. And I've not seen suspect steal from Microtech in any way, where did you get that?

 

[VorpelSword]

Chris Reeve knives is pretty ope about what steel in used in creating their various models. They change blade steels from time to time as the technology moves, but always seem to ay what it is. Most high end makers do the same.

However, another high-end maker with a tradition and reputation dates from WW-II merely states that their steel is carbnon or stainless, though the formulations are known. They just do not make a big deal out of what it is. This may be because innovation is not their focus they have not changed their blade steels for thirty or forty years.

Microtech seems to be in the same mold.