How far back in history does axe eye mounting method date??

[FortyTwoBlades]

If trying to Google them, the term "neolithic hammer axe" tends to turn up plenty of results. Here are some images of them in-hand showing that many of them are quite small, like a lot of stone and bronze axes tend to be.

It's worth noting that many of them have decently long geometries that support thinner edges.

And many have been found with very crisp edges.

And it's also noteworthy that some of the somewhat stubbier ones show signs of the same kind of thickening through the edge-to-cheek transition that we're used to seeing on old heavily-worn steel axes.

While I haven't been able to turn up much good scholarly info on wear pattern analysis, there are some notes describing how many of them are seemingly devoid of wear and therefore were likely ceremonial in nature or status symbols. However, as they're common burial finds, it's very likely that the shorter/thicker ones are simply very worn down tools that began their life longer and thinner and were ground back as they wore or took damage. Upon the death of their original owners, it's very likely that their axe was already kept in good repair or else would have been polished back to immaculate condition before being deposited in the grave, which would have erased most signs of wear since you'd have a fresh, polished surface. I think it very unlikely that they were purely status symbols in most cases and almost certainly had a practical use, but would have been a prized possession.

 

[John A. Larsen]

Old Axeman, I am not any where near knowledgeable in this subject, but do feel you initial reply to Ernest was over the top and uncalled for. As far as Hawaiians and other Pacific Islanders building amazing sea going canoes, my memory and a quick looking on the internet says that the trees were prepared for a long time before being felled. Fires were used to circle the trunk and stone axes used to cut away the burnt areas. After felling the same thing happened, fires on top of the logs, and then stone axes to cut away the burnt areas. Not so much just stone axes cutting into live wood. That they made excellent stone axes is not being disputed, but as you said they were a practical people and cutting away at an area that had first been burnt, would be easier than cutting live wood. John
PS The stone axe I have from somewhere around Long Island, NY is grooved around the head, and would either been inserted into a wooden handle or had a wooden handle split and wrapped around the head.

 

[Malus]

If trying to Google them, the term "neolithic hammer axe" tends to turn up plenty of results. Here are some images of them in-hand showing that many of them are quite small, like a lot of stone and bronze axes tend to be.

It's worth noting that many of them have decently long geometries that support thinner edges.

And many have been found with very crisp edges.

And it's also noteworthy that some of the somewhat stubbier ones show signs of the same kind of thickening through the edge-to-cheek transition that we're used to seeing on old heavily-worn steel axes.

While I haven't been able to turn up much good scholarly info on wear pattern analysis, there are some notes describing how many of them are seemingly devoid of wear and therefore were likely ceremonial in nature or status symbols. However, as they're common burial finds, it's very likely that the shorter/thicker ones are simply very worn down tools that began their life longer and thinner and were ground back as they wore or took damage. Upon the death of their original owners, it's very likely that their axe was already kept in good repair or else would have been polished back to immaculate condition before being deposited in the grave, which would have erased most signs of wear since you'd have a fresh, polished surface. I think it very unlikely that they were purely status symbols in most cases and almost certainly had a practical use, but would have been a prized possession.

I think that is a very compelling theory. I'm taking some courses right now and will have to do some research while I still have access to journals. An axe like that would take so much time to make between pecking, grinding, polishing and drilling that I can see it being an item that was highly prized. They surely could have been sharpened back until the geometry became blunt and then used for another purpose like many of us use an old axe that has lost it's chopping geometry for kindling splitting.

There would have been quite a significance to an axe that might have been used for a large part of someone's life. I'm sure there are a few on the forum who would like to be buried with their favorite axe.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

PS The stone axe I have from somewhere around Long Island, NY is grooved around the head, and would either been inserted into a wooden handle or had a wooden handle split and wrapped around the head.

Boiling or steaming the end of a handle and then wrapping it 'round the grooved portion and lashing it back to itself is the method I've seen described for that hafting style.

 

[Old Axeman]

John Larsen, I don't know where you got your Hawaiian canoe building information but it is not correct. The accepted authority on Hawaiian canoe building is a out of print book "The Hawaiian Canoe" by Tommy Holmes. It is very clear in chapter 5, pages 32-38, that after the tree was located, that it was felled using axe and adze, bucked to length with axe and adze, and rough shaped while the wood was still green. Anybody who rough shaped wood from a tree knows that you need to do it green. Modern bowl turners who make bowls right from the trees still only work with green wood.

As for this fire thing, you do know that fire only burns in a vertical direction right ? You can not fell a tree on the stump, certainly not a large dia. green stick, by building a fire at the base and hope the fire will burn horizontal. Yes, you could scorch the outside and cut the scorched wood off. You might need more than one lifetime before a 3'+ Dia. tree fell. But, by that time the wood is no longer green so you can not rough shape it very well. You could buck it with fire. It would be best if it landed off the ground enough to build a fire directly under it.

As far as my "initial reply to Ernest was over the top and uncalled for", you better reread the posts. It was Donald Wagstaff ( his real name) who's initial post addressing me that was uncalled for. My post was a response in kind. I never could get the hang of that "turn the other cheek" thing.

But not to worry John, I assure you it will never happen again.

 

[John A. Larsen]

Looks like I should have been more specific in my searching as when I searched "Hawaiian Sea Canoe Building" it came up exactly as Old Axeman had written. Using stone quarried high up on Mauna Kea (volcano on Hawaii) which was called "Ala" and was basalt, very hard stone. One thing that did surprise me was an account from Captain George Vancouver,( a British officer) whose expedition, 1791-1795 along the Pacific Northwest coast and to the Hawaiian Islands and Australia, reported seeing a 60 foot long pine log, made into a canoe, which reportedly had drifted from Oregon to Hawaii. The Hawaiians called these drift logs from Oregon "Gifts from their Gods". I would think there could not have been many of these drift logs of the size needed to make a sea going canoe, that would arrive in Hawaii. John

 

[EdgePal]

https://i.ibb.co/WxDgCSm/image.jpg

Dont forget that the neolitich people was as intelligent as we are today, they was experts to do things - and some of the things they did we cant understand how they did it...

The pic above shows chissels made in stone. That means that they did have tools to hollow things out. These are small chiisels for small jobs - but we have also found big heavy hand hold chissels for big jobbs. Perhaps for hollow out canoes?
Fire are one tool to use, big heavy chissels also, fine minor chissels for the last work.

During a time with only copper tools they build the pyramids in Giza for 4000 years ago. Maya and Aztec cultures build big walls where every stone was made for its special place in the wall - and those walls still stands where moderna walls have tumble down in earthquaces. They could make things that we cant do today with our tools, perhaps becouse they have time, a thing we dont have. We fo not have time to work many month to make a polished axe or a flint dagger.

I have made a flint knife and work with it trying to understand how they was used and what they are able to do and still be sharp. I have tryed stone axes in fresh wood and they work fqster then i thought and they cross more then they chop - but when i combined a crushing axe and a flint knife to slice away the crussed fibers, i could fell a tree rather fast. And - this the first time I did it. People with experience sould have done it much faster.

For 6000 years ago, our forfathers knifes was sharpener then our sharpest knifes today. They have edges of flint that, when they was knocked, have edges 5 molecyles thick, or obsidian that have edges 1 molecyle thick. Our finest steel give edges 15 molecyle thick...
This means that when we find sharpeners, or places where they grinded their edges, we must undestand that they did not grind their edges to get them sharper, they grind their edges so they sould be duller ane more durable. They grinded away thin scarry sharp 1 molecyle edges to get durable edges that hold to work with, for example hold for treefelling or choping of thick branches.

They soon found out what convex shape that work best for this type of job - and then they maintain just that edge to keep have a tool as effective as possible - just as we do today.

Thomas

 

[EdgePal]

Bigger size
<img src="https://i.ibb.co/hgjM2mR/image.jpg" alt="image" border="0" />

Thomas

 

[Square_peg]

but when i combined a crushing axe and a flint knife to slice away the crussed fibers, i could fell a tree rather fast.

This method could work.

Using any of the eyed tools I've seen on this thread to buck a log we be pretty pointless. With the edge angles involved and the thickness of the axe you'd likely need to make a 24" wide cut to get through an 8" log.

But with EdgePal's method you could cut nearly vertical into a log. You'd need to cut an opening wide enough to swing the crushing axe into and you'd still want to roll the log and work in from all directions but I think it would work.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Different technology requires different technique. This is true across the whole of tool use history, so shouldn't really be surprising.

 

[Brent Halverson]

Using this new technology called "book" that is installed on a shelf in my house, I found this for you: