How Good Is 420J-2 Steel???

Well, I just got through talking with the knife maker I bought this from. And he said that to use one of the tougher steels would nearly triple his end user price (being more labor intensive to work, in combination with more expensive). So he's sticking to this or maybe going to 420HC or 440C. Then the price would only go up about $10-$20 per peice. Whats your guys thoughts?

He's only made about a dozen or so and sold or gifted mainly to friends and family and sent a few to some local outdoor retailers. After the experts here sounded off I told him to at least upgrade the steel to the next level.
 
I carry a little kershar scallion and it works great for light duty work but it does need a sharpen every 3rd day or so which is ok because for it a sharpen consists of like 4 passes on the fine sharpmaker rods per side
 
SlamFire said:
What I have noticed on this site, there are a lot of folks who like ultimate knife materials, but I wonder if they really use them.
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I carry a SAK Rambler for most of my mundane cutting chores. (Might carry something else soon since I recently discovered that the thick Phillips head screwdriver doesn't work too well on it).

But for tougher cutting chores, I also EDC an Emerson Mini-Commander. Blade steel = 154CM. Haven't needed to re-sharpen it though.
 
jtallant said:
Well, I just got through talking with the knife maker I bought this from. And he said that to use one of the tougher steels would nearly triple his end user price (being more labor intensive to work, in combination with more expensive). So he's sticking to this or maybe going to 420HC or 440C. Then the price would only go up about $10-$20 per peice. Whats your guys thoughts?

He's only made about a dozen or so and sold or gifted mainly to friends and family and sent a few to some local outdoor retailers. After the experts here sounded off I told him to at least upgrade the steel to the next level.
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As you can see by most of the earlier responses, 420J2 does not have many fans for use in a custom blade. I would guess that your friend's work would have a warmer reception if he used 440C. 440C is no longer top of the line. But it has been a well used and well regarded blade steel with a good combination of edge retention and corrosion resistance for 40+ years. 440C is also relatively easy to come by (read inexpensive). IMO if your friend offered the blade you showed earlier in 440C for ~$75, he would have more interest.
 
I can't see 440C bringing the price up that much, but $20 to move up to 420HC would surely be worth it. 420HC has 4-5 times the carbon content of 420J2. Buck makes extensive use of it, and you won't hear many complaints. In the end, the heat treat and blade geometry will make the most difference, so whatever steel he uses, he needs to know its limits.
 
shecky said:
So, what would be the advantage to the user of using some carbon steel as used in a Douk Douk (1075, IIRC) hardened to 50-53 Rc (according to this), over 420J2 hardened to 56-58 Rc, aside from corrosion resistance.
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This should point out one of the more obvious flaws of people heavily critizing 420J2 because you would have to be even more critical of knives like the Douk Douk, but they are actually praised.

-Cliff
 
So, as long as I'm not in combat killing humans everyday, or going aroung stabbing trees and throwing the thing at bricks, it's a keeper? Cause what I really like about this discussion thread is the oppinions from a few who have over 200+ knives (after seeing the thread asking how many you own) how can someone possibly use and fully test every blade? Like stated earlier, I fully believe its the cheep Chinese 420-J2 in crappy dollor store knives with little to no hardening thats gave it a bad name.

I'm willing to bet if you go back as little as 15-20years (before the cheep imports, and supper steel) when all you had to choose from in stainless was quality 420-j2, 420-HC, 440A and the holly grail was 440C you didn't have anyone complaining about it. Why? Because it was comparable to the regular common carbon steels and a great cheeper alternative to 440C. Everyone's prob here is that they are comparing it to the super alloys of AUS-8, S30V, ATS-34, D2 and the like.
 
Rat Finkenstein said:
As long as you like your knife, it's a keeper.

But there is no such thing as "Quality 420J2".
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I respectfully have to disagree. Cause given the same heat treatment and hardness of around 54 or 55rc, and compare that to the the same hardness and heat treatment of slightly lower quality 440a stainless (cause even some of this stuff is getting to be junk) or 1075 carbon. Please tell me the any disadvantage it has?
 
I've sharpened one of my buddies 420j2. It was the easiest sharpening I've ever done! i could do about 10 in the time it takes to do a s30v. Takes a good edge, but can't comment on edge retention or use.
 
Cliff Stamp said:
This should point out one of the more obvious flaws of people heavily critizing 420J2 because you would have to be even more critical of knives like the Douk Douk, but they are actually praised.

-Cliff
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Cliff makes the point more bluntly than I.

Is this an example of contradictory forum wisdom?
 
jtallant said:
I respectfully have to disagree. Cause given the same heat treatment and hardness of around 54 or 55rc, and compare that to the the same hardness and heat treatment of slightly lower quality 440a stainless (cause even some of this stuff is getting to be junk) or 1075 carbon. Please tell me the any disadvantage it has?
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Go ahead and disagree.

The disadvantages to 420J2?
-It is junk.
-It doesn't hold an edge.
-It is junk.
 
Hardness doesn't everything, and also- 440A is by no means lower quality than 420J2, though it's considered to be pretty trashy aswell.

if you go back as little as 15-20years
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you'll find that carbon steels still held a better edge (that goes for 1084, 1095, and I'd assume 1075) than 420J2. Hardness rarely means everything.

There's no problem liking the knife you own, but you're wrong if you think that it is a good steel by modern standards for anything more than collecting. Compared to other cheap options (420HC, AUS8, 8Cr13MoV), it doesn't hold an edge well, or perform well at much else other than not staining.

Edit- 420J2 is BARELY medium carbon steel, whereas 1075 is very solidly high carbon steel. Carbon is important in wear resistence, strength, edge retention, and hardenability (not an issue here- the manganese and chromium helps with that). 420J2 has the carbon content of rebar, but with a few other things that make it slightly better for small knife use and collecting use.
 
I have a little keychain type lockback styled after the delica (except with a thumbstud) that I've always figured is probably 420J2. It sure does take a wicked edge easy as anything, and not a spot of rust despite years of neglect... But it also looses that edge easy as anything. All in all I would take just about any steel over 420J2.
 
jtallant said:
Well, I just got through talking with the knife maker I bought this from. And he said that to use one of the tougher steels would nearly triple his end user price (being more labor intensive to work, in combination with more expensive). So he's sticking to this or maybe going to 420HC or 440C. Then the price would only go up about $10-$20 per peice. Whats your guys thoughts?

He's only made about a dozen or so and sold or gifted mainly to friends and family and sent a few to some local outdoor retailers. After the experts here sounded off I told him to at least upgrade the steel to the next level.
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and what about using carbon steel?
Xc75 is quite cheap, and you could optain extremely good result in term of cuting power and durability of the edge.
problem will be knowledge of the heat treatment.... but it's good opportunity for your friend to improve, may-be ?
 
Or how about the 10xx series. Everything from 1050 to 1095 has a very good reputation, depending on application, and I can say for sure they are easy to sharpen, so I'd assume other aspects are also easy.

BTW, this is the 2nd time I've seen Xc75 referenced, do you have any info on it?
 
Buck268 said:
Or how about the 10xx series. Everything from 1050 to 1095 has a very good reputation, depending on application, and I can say for sure they are easy to sharpen, so I'd assume other aspects are also easy.

BTW, this is the 2nd time I've seen Xc75 referenced, do you have any info on it?
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Google to the rescue...

XCxx is the same as 10xx.
 
Peter_E_Ryt said:
Hardness doesn't everything, and also- 440A is by no means lower quality than 420J2, though it's considered to be pretty trashy aswell.
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Hardness does not mean everything but it is a major factor in knife performance as it is a measurement of the resistance of the edge to deformation and rolling which is a pretty big factor in both sharpening as well as edge retention. 440A is also only considered to be trashy by north american makers who are blinded by vanadian carbide. If you look overseas where makers are focusing on very thin edged knives which get very sharp and cut well, then 440A is praised OVER 440C as a better knife steel.

-CLiff
 
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