How I Flat Grind (No Jig in Sight)

blgoode

blgoode

Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
Joined
Oct 3, 2003
Messages
7,164
This is not a thread bashing jigs or those who prefer them. I a simply stating why I prefer to grind free hand and hopefully you can see how I do it.

Why I do not rely on anything but my hands to grind......

I can grind any combination of blade sizes, stock thicknesses, and blade shapes.

I can control (HOPEFULLY :) ) my grind height and not have my plunge break the spine like on some jig ground knives I have seen.

I can learn my muscle memory and not rely on anything but ME for the process other than a working flat platin grinder and belts.

I feel the temperature of the blade so I can not worry about overheating hardened blades. I often on small knives grind hardened steel to minimize the chance of over removing material.

I do not waste time setting anything EXCEPT the 2 parallel lines along the edge to keep edge centered.

Anyways, thats a rough list of why I like to free hand and you may find that once you invest the time in the learning curve you will be glad you did.

My Rest to hold the blade horizontal
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Blades of different profiles and blade shapes
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Setting the Edge again all free hand. The Recurve is a tough one to get started.
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Hand that sets the angle I need
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Hand that controls other end of blade and supports the work.
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I simply walk up the grind till I get it high enough and not worry about the plunge. It will fall into place if you dont worry with it.
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Recurve Blades are a little tougher to get started since the belly hangs past the platen and the reason I thought Id post this today. This is a big advantage in free handing your skill.
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Again, Not bashing your way if its different but I did want to post this to remind guys you dont NEED things you dont have. Just grab a blade and go for it. You may be surprised that your brain was being your limitation in thinking you couldn't do it. Go for it and remember that mistake your making is one less mistake in teh whole process for your self.
 
Brian,
Thanks for posting that. When you grind these free hand do you feel that the grind height you finish with should always meet the spine or do you like to leave a little at the top sometimes?

On the recurve pic your grind line will go all the way to the spine or will you leave it short and at an angle?

Are these just preferences left to the maker or do you feel theres a standard out there for this?

Thanks Larry
 
I try to always have the plunge end lower than the spine. Look on my website or other posts in the gallery area and see if there are pics that show it. It's always up to the maker to decide what he wants :)

I don't like to have the spine broke by the plunge and will always shoot for a portion of the top of the blade to be flat like a hollow ground knife appears.
 
I'll do all the edge thinning and tip adjustment once hardened starting with 60 grit again.
 
Thanks for this thread. I've been tempted by jigs as a beginner, but I'm trying to convince myself to leave them alone, at least until I have mastered the art of freehand grinding. I think I should be adept at that art before I attempt taking any shortcuts. This is good inspiration to keep at it:thumbup:

When you initially set your edge at about 45 degrees, do you run the 45 degree bevel down to about .020" and then flat grind your bevel until it meets that .020" edge? I've been making good progress, but I think I've been running into some trouble because I haven't taken my edges down thin enough before I start grinding my bevels. I think this is what's caused a lot of the back and forth work I've had to do to keep the grind flat. Not sure if that makes sense, but I think I'm starting to get an idea of how to better achieve what I'm after thanks to your input.

Thanks!
Jonny
 
Larry,
Here is what I shoot for and do the best I can. Most important is making both sides the same as possible.

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It can really be how you want it to be :)
 
Johnny
I'll have to measure what my centers are. I don't remember. I have caliper settings for stock thicknesses instead. I think what I have for finding centers is stock thickness-.020=caliper settings Then I angle the caliper to make my center a little larger.

I leave my edge center thicker than .020 but not much. I also leave my tips thicker till I heat treat. I don't worry about the edge exact thickness till after heat treat because the blade may change a little during heat treat and I want enough material to pull it back true with the grinding away if materil. It's a blend of measure and eye balling it. The plus of grinding for me after heat treat is I slow down and get the edge closer to where I want it at 60 grit THEN work the whole bevel flat. I move the blade from plunge to tip slow and let the belt do the work. Then with 120 I'll get closer to where I want the bevel and at 220 set it all in. 400 grit is just cleaning it all up. After heat treat I'll get te flats to 400 grit holding tip DOWN and won't touch the flats again. Scarry having a 400 grit flat and throwing on a 60 grit belt but that's what I do.
 
Brian, that pretty much sums up how I do my flat grinds as well. Arms tucked to my sides, moving my body more than my wrists/hands are other tips that help me stay consistent. I do often use a couple of pieces of steel clamped to the blade to help me manage my plunges, and it also gives me something to hold onto for the shorter blades when I'm grinding. The longer blades I support the same as you do. It can be a little intimidating when your finger is literally milimeters away from a lightening-speed 36 grit belt. :D I don't even think about it anymore, and I haven't ground my finger is a good while.

Good looking work, Brian!

--nathan
 
Thanks Nathan
I have blistered fingers after a batch but I'm used to it now. Better blistered than raw for sure!
 
Excellent thread Brian . I don't believe there are any shortcuts to becoming a good grinder of blades. Being a newbie myself, frustrations and ruined pieces have caused me a good deal of grief over the last year. But, alas, recently things seem to be coming together. Like its been said many times over , practise, practise and more practise ! Like you said, you gotta train them muscles !
Cheers
Shant
 
Brian,
Thanks for the reply and the input. My first three blades came back from Peters today, so I'm going to be doing my final cleanup and sharpening. I appreciate the tips.

......and by the way, you're right, it's downright frightening thinking about putting on a 36 grit belt after you've got the flats down to 400!!:eek:

Jonny

blgoode said:
Johnny
I'll have to measure what my centers are. I don't remember. I have caliper settings for stock thicknesses instead. I think what I have for finding centers is stock thickness-.020=caliper settings Then I angle the caliper to make my center a little larger.

I leave my edge center thicker than .020 but not much. I also leave my tips thicker till I heat treat. I don't worry about the edge exact thickness till after heat treat because the blade may change a little during heat treat and I want enough material to pull it back true with the grinding away if materil. It's a blend of measure and eye balling it. The plus of grinding for me after heat treat is I slow down and get the edge closer to where I want it at 60 grit THEN work the whole bevel flat. I move the blade from plunge to tip slow and let the belt do the work. Then with 120 I'll get closer to where I want the bevel and at 220 set it all in. 400 grit is just cleaning it all up. After heat treat I'll get te flats to 400 grit holding tip DOWN and won't touch the flats again. Scarry having a 400 grit flat and throwing on a 60 grit belt but that's what I do.
Click to expand...
 
Brian thats how I grind mine also. Just keep at it to get better, it takes time. I still grind to much off sometimes. Thin knives slice well!
 
Brian
Thats how I do it. What I hate is the hot sparks that attach to my finger, my finger goes in the slack bucket frist then the blade.

Mike
 
I just have not gotten to this point yet, and don't know if I will. I want to throw a fit and cry when I've worked so hard on profiling a blade and then I CONSISTENTLY break the spine while freehand grinding. I've sharpened blades and tinkered around fixing old knives for my whole life, so I was pretty confident going into this. Way harder than I thought.

I recently got a sled type jig, and it makes everything so pretty flat and perfect. No dangers of going too far up the spine for me now. I just can't afford to junk any more steel and waste any more of my time.

I really do envy guys like Brian who can do this.
 
OK Brian,
Got home from the family vacation last night and went to work on some blades in the shop today. Trying to stick to free grinding in order to really get the technique down. Here are a few shots of one of the blades I worked on today using only a simple guide for the plunge and for getting a good grip on the blade. The angle was all done freehand. I'm only showing this side because I did scuff up the other side all the way to the spine, but just in one spot and not too much. Should be easily fixable.:o

The second knife is one that I just got ready for heat treat this afternoon. This one was also ground freehand except for the plunge guide. You'll notice a problem though.......on the right side the plunge transitions very nicely into the flat with a steady curve, but on the left side, the plunge hits the flat at nearly 90 degrees. I had some problems with this blank while surface grinding and I think that is the root of the problem. I'm going to finish this one, but chalk it up to experience and keep it as a user. Either way, I'm learning a lot and like the challenge of grinding freehand.

Freehand grind underway:
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Bad plunge transition:

Good side:
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Bad side:
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