How I make damascus.

[Dan Seaver]

Work in progress, I need more pictures.

This is both to show how I make my damascus and to educate new makers on different methods.


First I start with a whole bunch of 1084v and 15n20 cut into 8 inch sections.

I then arrange the steel in an alternating order with two pieces of 15n20 in every other layer and 1 layer of 1084 in the other, with a total of 9 layers. The center layer is a full length bar of 1084 so I have a handle to hold onto. The steel is then lined up closely and clamped in place.

I then put a strong bead down each side to hold the billet together until it is forge welded.

Welding section to come soon.




After the welds are completed I grind off any lines on the side of the billet that are a sign of an un-welded piece of steel, caused by minor misalignment in the pieces of steel.

Picture to be added soon.

After grinding and through inspection of the billet I draw the billet out to 3/8"-1/2" thick on the power hammer.

Once the billet is cool I grind both sides with the angle grinder to remove all forging pits and examine the bar for defects. This removes the pits that could trap flux and create minor cold shuts that would not be visible to the smith.

I then cut off the far end of the billet to remove the arc weld and defects normally found on the end of the bar. This is a problem with hot cutting and folding because the defects are simply put back into the billet rather than removed.

Need picture

After cutting off the end I examine the other end of the bar and detrmine a safe distance from the end to be used for the next step.

need picture

I then divide the bar into five equal parts but only cut off four so the fifth bar remains attached to the handle. The bars are then stacked and welded with a vertical bead on each end.

The billet is then ground even on each side.

After forge welding the bar is again ground on each side to remove the over lapping steel that is not welded and to be thoroughly examined before it is drawn out.

These steps are then repeated until I achieve the desired number of layers. I then create pattern, via crushed w's, drilling, grinding, twisting, and other methods.

I will try to remember my camera the next few days so I can get more pictures and I'll add more details soon.

 

[Ryan Minchew]

Thanks a ton for the pictures.

Question is there a general rule of how much steel you lose to grinding off and what not? Like say 5%, 10%, or maybe it's 50%? I suppose it could all depend on how many layers you are after and patterns, but thought there might be general idea.

 

[SBuzek]

Dan
Good Thread Gonna be watching this one. Could you also give approx soak times for you billet or a rule of thumb of how long to soak.
Stan

 

[Dan Seaver]

Ryan I loose 75%-80% of the material I start with for my standard firestorm pattern. I start with 21 cubic inches and end up with 4 to 5 cubic inches. Higher layer or more complex patterns loose more. Its a lot to lose and sharply decreases profits; but its better than selling less than perfect steel.

Stan, I simply wait until the billet is at welding heat, reflux, reheat to welding heat, reflux, and then bring it to welding heat and soak for 5 minutes. I do this twice for every weld to ensure a good weld. I also flux often as the billet heats up, as a preventive measure. I judge welding heat by how much the billet is fuming. Thick fumes is too hot and very little fumes is too cold, i like a nice middle heat of 2250F to 2300F.

Edit- 500th post!

 

[Sam Salvati]

GREAT thread Dan, thanks for taking the enormous amount of time to do this. Congrats on 500 too

 

[Edro20]

Ryan I loose 75%-80% of the material I start with for my standard firestorm pattern.

 

[Dan Seaver]

But its worth it. Full height chisel grind, still at 36 grit.

Its my pleasure Sam. I just wish I was as talented as you knife makers, then I could actually finish a knife.

 

[John L]

THIS IS GREAT!! What type disc do you use on your angle grinder? Is it absolutely necessary to grind off all uneven sides of billet? If you draw out ..say to 20" and then cut into 5 pcs and restack..why do the edges need to be ground clean? Thanks.

 

[Dan Seaver]

I use a type 27 hard disk for rough grinding and hot grinding. I use a flap disk for smoothing the surface after the rough grinding.

Its not absolutely necessary to grind the edges clean, its important to grind them even though. Any overlapping steel can cause a cold shut when you forge it. Also its important to grind out any gaps on the edges after welding, as these can also become cold shuts.

 

[TekSec]

That is a great bold pattern! I really like it.

 

[deker]

You've got to remember that some patterns NEED to lose this much steel in order to look right. This is especially true of twist-based patterns as the best bit of the twist is all the way in the center of the bar. Many mosaics will lose a whole pile of steel as well due to accordian cutting, etc to get the pattern out to the side of the bar.

It's part of the price of admission, and one of the reasons damascus gets so expensive.

-d

 

[Sam Salvati]

Its my pleasure Sam. I just wish I was as talented as you knife makers, then I could actually finish a knife.

HAHA I know you don't mean me, I never finish anything

 

[Ryan Minchew]

Thanks again for the pictures. I was amazed at how much you lost, but after deker's explanation I thought about it some more and it makes sense. Good thread.

 

[Edro20]

What Ryan said. I now have a new understanding of the costs of production regarding damascus. I had no idea.

It's beautiful -- that much is certain.

 

[Mike Krall]

Dan,

How big a Fairbanks Hammer is that and did you build the replacement front plate or did you get it that way?

Mike

 

[Dan Seaver]

You've got to remember that some patterns NEED to lose this much steel in order to look right. This is especially true of twist-based patterns as the best bit of the twist is all the way in the center of the bar. Many mosaics will lose a whole pile of steel as well due to accordian cutting, etc to get the pattern out to the side of the bar.

It's part of the price of admission, and one of the reasons damascus gets so expensive.

-d

Good way of putting it D. Also material cost jacks the price up, I spend $65 per billet on propane, steel, grinding materials, electricity, and other items. Then the bar sells for $140ish.

Mike its a Fairbanks E 150lb model. The rebuilt front plate was made at a local machine shop for the previous owner.

Edro, thanks. I'm glad to know I'm not the only person who likes the pattern.

Hehe, why finish something when you can play with that anyang, aye Sam?

 

[leighjohn83]

Nice thread I like the detail, It helps us all

 

[sunshadow]

Hey Dan, nice thread, keep it coming!

--Page

 

[deker]

Good way of putting it D. Also material cost jacks the price up, I spend $65 per billet on propane, steel, grinding materials, electricity, and other items. Then the bar sells for $140ish.

Now, start adding things like nickel 201 sheet at $50/lb or O-1/L-6 that cost more than your standard 1095/1084/15n20, and services like blanchard grinding of the final product at $60-75/hour and you can see even more why damascus gets expensive...and all of that is before we pay ourselves for our time!

My next order is for some sword billets that will weigh in at about 7lbs each when they're done...my starting billet size will be between 15 and 18lbs...

-d

 

[Dan Seaver]

Yea more exotic materials jack the price up a lot. Every thing I'm selling now goes towards the surface grinder I'm buying; so my billets can be precision flat ground without using an external grinding service.

Thanks Page, did you get the PM I sent you about the hammer in?

Decker you just gave me an idea for my next billet, thanks bud!