How is a Sharpmaker actually used?

I don't quite get the hang of how hard to push down on the knife when you make the stroke. When I push feather light, it feels like I'm not getting anything done, but when I push harder, it chews the edge up.

I've been able to get one of my knives to be able to slice corners of paper fairly cleanly, given proper technique, like shown in the sharpmaker video, but the cheaper knife that I started out with is getting nowhere. I've not been able to get any of my knives "scary sharp" and even razor sharp is rough going. I'm now closing one eye to help make sure I'm holding the edge at 90 degrees, as recommended in another thread, but it's still not getting any sharper than "scrape lots of skin off along with some hair" sharp. I mean, it's sharp enough for utility, but not as sharp as I know it can be. I've read dozens of these sharpmaker threads now and am a little stumped.

Are there serious drawbacks to running the blade along the stones in a circular motion? I suppose this would misalign the very edge, but I figured if I just gave it a few normal strokes to polish it off, all would be well. I tried it on my cheap blade with the fine grit stones just to see what kind of polish I could get, but I can't see much without a magnifier, of course. I also have a hard time maintaining full contact on the flats of the stones. I can't be sure that it's not making contact on only one of the two edges. I know it's going down the flat some of the times because there's a bunch of metal there.

Basically, I can make it from pretty dull to reasonably sharp, but not from reasonably sharp to razor or scary sharp. Any suggestions?
 
Don't push too hard, but not too lightly either (unless your polishing, which is best accomplishd with a strop). A medium downstroke is best.

Yeah, you probably need to back bevel whatever knife you're working on (30 degree triangle position).

Which means it's primary bevel is shallower than 20 degress on each side.

When you're sharpening at 20 degress each side your hitting mostly shoulders. You can see this after you sharpen in bright light. The edge and bevel looks torn up rather than smooth.

Consult your manual, but use the corners of the medium stone and fine stone for 20 strokes each side at 30 degrees(15 degrees each side), then follow with steps 1-4 at 40 degrees. If the blade is somewhat sharply curved, and you don't have a steady hand it's best to not use step 4 but use a strop instead to finish the edge.

It is absolutely not necessary to use this system with circular motions. And is really counterproductive as it can remove excess material for no apparent reason, and can result in an uneven bevel.

I highly recommend a strop for finishing, and maintaining edges with any stone type sharpening system.

Unless the knife is heavily used or the bevel is damaged regularly. Then the edge left by stones only is highly satisfactory, more durable and easy to maintain with just a few strokes.
 
I just picked up a Sharpmaker tonight, and i *am* impressed, i thought it was a basic "V" sharpener, but it's more versatile than that, it can even be used as a flat stone, i was able to make my Dyad Jr (purchased used) "scary sharp" in just a few strokes, it's so sharp now that i just put it *near* my arm hair and the hair leaps off in fear, rather than touch the blade.....

however, i have one question, for maintenance use, which is the preferred angle for "scary sharp" maintaining, the 30 or 40 degree angle?

i was a skeptic, the Sharpmaker looked too gimmicky to be true, but the thing *works*, it works so well it *scares* me, i'm now afraid to touch the blade of the Dyad (not really, but you get the point....), heck, it was even able to restore the edge on a kitchen knife that had dulled beyond the point of a butter knife, that knife is now scary sharp and i can shave with it...

it was also nice to watch the vid and put a face to the screenname, Sal definitely is afount of knowledge and has an amazing amount of knowlege about bladecraft...
 
for maintenance use, which is the preferred angle for "scary sharp" maintaining, the 30 or 40 degree angle?
Click to expand...
The dreaded answer - It depends...

First off, I prefer to create a 20 degree back bevel using a benchstone, then put a 30 degree primary edge using the 30 degree S/M. I just prefer a smaller angle.

Now, to answer your question, you should touch up using the same angle that created the existing edge. That's why it's called "touching up" instead of "reshaping". (This was not a sarcastic comment, so please don't take is that way.) So, if you are using the 40 degree setting on the S/M to create your primary edge, touch the edge up with the 40 degree setting. If you create your primary edges at 30 degrees, touch them up at 30 degrees.

By the way, if you think your edges are good now, try polishing them with a strop loaded with CrO...
 
MacTech said:
I just picked up a Sharpmaker tonight, and i *am* impressed, i thought it was a basic "V" sharpener, but it's more versatile than that, it can even be used as a flat stone, i was able to make my Dyad Jr (purchased used) "scary sharp" in just a few strokes, it's so sharp now that i just put it *near* my arm hair and the hair leaps off in fear, rather than touch the blade.....

however, i have one question, for maintenance use, which is the preferred angle for "scary sharp" maintaining, the 30 or 40 degree angle?

i was a skeptic, the Sharpmaker looked too gimmicky to be true, but the thing *works*, it works so well it *scares* me, i'm now afraid to touch the blade of the Dyad (not really, but you get the point....), heck, it was even able to restore the edge on a kitchen knife that had dulled beyond the point of a butter knife, that knife is now scary sharp and i can shave with it...

it was also nice to watch the vid and put a face to the screenname, Sal definitely is afount of knowledge and has an amazing amount of knowlege about bladecraft...
Click to expand...

Yep the sharpmaker is definately the ticket for 90% of knife enthusiasts out there. Very versatile tool.

I've often refered to myself as the worlds worst knife sharpener. Because I couldn't hold a consistent angle, freehand, if my life depended on it. Before I discovered the sharpmaker, I had ruined every blade imaginable trying to sharpen it (boy I wish I had all that money back). From steels, to files, to stones, didn't matter. The sharpmaker made me an expert. And now all my tools are razor sharp and in mint condition. I even use it to sharpen my axe (my sharpmaker is mounted on my bench).

As for the angle in which you wish to sharpen. This is personal preference in my view.

Either 30 or 40 degrees will get a knife to almost any degree of sharpness you can imagine.

The difference is in drag, and durability. At a 30 degrees of course there is less material behind the edge. This make the edge sink into material easier, but of course with a corresponding amount reduction in toughness and edge durability. Because there is simply less steel behind the bevel.

At 40 degrees (20 degrees on each side), there is sufficient steel behind the edge for durability and toughness for heavier tasks.

I use the 30 degree setting for things like hobby knives, etc...., and some specialty purpose knives in the kitchen that don't see hard use. I also use this setting for removing the shoulders of oversharpened knives, or on factory edges shallower than 20 degrees (if the knife wont sharpen, this is the problem. Refer to your manual for removing the shoulders, and follow these instructions exactly. You don't want to remove anymore metal than necessary).

I highly recommend the diamond triangles for more aggressive work. But they should be used rarely. Mine get rarely used, as the ceramics are adequate for 95% of the work I need to do. But it's nice to have the option of quickly reworking the bevel on a damaged or lesser quality blade, etc..
 
TedGamble said:
The dreaded answer - It depends...

First off, I prefer to create a 20 degree back bevel using a benchstone, then put a 30 degree primary edge using the 30 degree S/M. I just prefer a smaller angle.

Now, to answer your question, you should touch up using the same angle that created the existing edge. That's why it's called "touching up" instead of "reshaping". (This was not a sarcastic comment, so please don't take is that way.) So, if you are using the 40 degree setting on the S/M to create your primary edge, touch the edge up with the 40 degree setting. If you create your primary edges at 30 degrees, touch them up at 30 degrees.

By the way, if you think your edges are good now, try polishing them with a strop loaded with CrO...
Click to expand...

How do you put a 30 degree primary bevel, on a 20 degree back bevel?

Wouldn't a 30 degree bevel remove the 20 degree bevel?
 
How do you put a 30 degree primary bevel, on a 20 degree back bevel?
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You put the 20 degree back bevel on first (20 degree inclusive, 10 degree each side). Then, you use the 30 degree setting (30 degree setting, 15 degree each side) on the S/M to create the primary edge. The 30 degree primary edge is called a micro-bevel. Sharpening "best practices" suggests that you have a back bevel that is 3 to 5 degrees narrower than the primary edge. This is what makes touch-ups of the primary edge more efficient.

Check out this illustration from Steve Bottorff. Scroll down to the "A MULTI-BEVEL METHOD" bullet:
http://users.ameritech.net/knives/knives1c.htm#multi

Also, check out this information from John Juranitch. Scroll down to the "The most important secret of sharpening" bullet:
http://users.ameritech.net/knives/Juranitch1977Feb.htm
 
Just to clarify for my own edification if I may?

On the Sharpmaker, I would first use the 30* setting (15* each side) for the back bevel. Then use the 40* setting (20* degress each side) for the primary bevel.

Is this correct?
 
Climb14er said:
Just to clarify for my own edification if I may?

On the Sharpmaker, I would first use the 30* setting (15* each side) for the back bevel. Then use the 40* setting (20* degress each side) for the primary bevel.

Is this correct?
Click to expand...

That's correct per the manual and per my experience.

Works great. Especially on thicker blades.
 
the more i use the Sharpmmaker, the more it impresses me, tonight i took Dad's pocketknife (not sure what brand, a little ivory-handled dual-blader with "surgical steel" blades) that was so dull it wouldn't cut *butter*, warm butter that just came out of a 1 minute run in the microwave, even...., and in about 20 minutes, put a shaving-sharp edge on it, it'd need more work to get scary-sharp, but Dad's happy with shaving-sharp

it even had a ding in the 1/2" stubby blade, and i was able to reprofile the stubby blade and remove the ding on the brown rods

as far as my Spydie Dyad Jr goes, the plain edge blade i sharpened last night is sharper than the (formerly) sharpest knife i have, a small 2.5" blade *sushi knife*, the little Dyad Jr can outcut my sushi knife, and those things are bloody sharp to begin with....

if *anyone's* on the fence about if the Sharpmaker is worth it, this former skeptic says *YES*, it's worth *every penny*
 
Are you guys getting "scary sharp" with the stock fine stones that the sharpmaker comes with? If so, then my technique is definitely off.
 
I got the sharpmaker before christmas, I tried to sharpen a philopino balisong but had little luck because the angles was way off and I was getting nowhere after an hour with the brown stones. But I have sharpened my Benchmade 43, and 46 balisong twice each, with excellent results. The first time I was able to get a razor edge, but it would not cut fine hairs (I was rushed when I sharpened which is a big no no).
I have found that you have to be careful not to damage the edge with poor technique. You must go very slow and learn the movements in order to prevent damage. You must practice perfect technique, and never get impatient or speed up the motions too much. I have been able to get a pretty sharp edge that will cut the finest hairs on my hand with very little pressure, as well as pop hairs off my leg by only touching the blade to my skin, and that is with the brown stones. I have really fine hairs on the back of my hand, Im blonde and that hair is pretty much as fine as it gets. I use the white stones with a very light touch and it will get the blade even sharper, but I am still working on that, it seems after you get a really sharp edge it is even easier to damage it.

i am also getting the feel for sharpness, which is good cause I have too many bald spots on me already.

Also, major tip-Sharpies are your best friend, I reaply on the edge after every 15 or so strokes and after I am finished with the brown stones. I could have never gotten a very sharp edge with out a sharpie har har.

I also have an old belt that I put 3 micron dmt diamond paste on and strop with. But it really does not seem to get the blade any sharper. I need to practice more, I think I am pressing to hard and my angle is off.

I am actually just about to buy the diamond rods in like 5 mins LOL
 
Oh yeah, and there is a special sound you get when you have the right angle and pressure. It is weird. I give it little pressure, as much as if I was cutting an apple realy slowly. It is hard to put into words.
 
I don't really know what "scary sharp" is.

I think the key to getting maximum sharpness with the Sharpmaker is very light pressure at the end as well as breaking off any burr. Removing the burr can make a large difference in my experience. Just tilt the knife SLIGHTLY toward the center and do a very light stroke or two per side at the end. That should be enough to get it extra sharp.
 
I think scary sharp would be when you can cut hairs with touching the skin or when you can cut paper like Sal does in the video, that spiral cut he does requires a really really sharp blade.

I just alternate, making sure a bur never forms it does the same thing in the end. As long as you use a sharpie and make sure you are getting the whole edge then you you are fine. Both ways get a sharp blade it is only preference, technique on the stroke is of most importance.
 
pratzert said:
I just recently got my Sharpmaker. I have not used it yet but I'm chomping at the bit to try my hand at sharpening my knives.

I HAVE watched the instructional video, and I think it's VERY clear and easy to understand.

Once you watch it a couple of times, you should have no trouble using the Sharpmaker.

Tim
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If brand new take some kitchen cleanser and clean the rods which seem to come very slick and need a little roughing up to work well.

Also, don't force the knife into the rods. You don't need lots of pressure. Let the rod material work its magic and remove the steel in its own good time. You can't rush it. The only thing I found wrong with the instructions was the comment about a certain number of passes per side. I never could get it to work that way. I learned that you stay on the edge until you feel the "BURR" then you sharpen the other edge. You don't move to the next step until the edge is very close to being scary sharp (whatever that means).

Lastly, mark the edge of the knife to be sharpened with a black magic marker (I use a Sharpie, hee hee) and make a few passes. Then look at the edge in good light and with a magnifier if you have one. This will tell you where on the blade you are sharpening. It should be at the very bottom or you will have to work a long time with the grey courser rods to get it ground down to that point. You want to sharpen at the very bottom of the edge, not up on the blade.

If you search for "profiling" threads you will see that discussion. It rarely needs to be done with well made knives in my experience.

I get a rush when I finish sharpening a really good edge. It becomes addictive I think. You against the blade. Also different knives feel and act differently when being sharpened which I find interesting.

Lastly, look into making or buying a hone/strop. It puts the frosting on the cake (or the polish on the blade)!

http://www.drsharpening.com/leatherhone.html

Here is a link to the "scary sharp" boys!

http://www.handamerican.com/scary.html
 
Are you guys getting "scary sharp" with the stock fine stones that the sharpmaker comes with? If so, then my technique is definitely off.
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First of all, let's agree that "Scary Sharp" means dangerously, hair tip cutting (which is sharper than hair popping), sharp.

With the two pairs of rods that come with the S/M, you can get good and sharp. There are two "next level" steps, though that you'll need to get "Scary Sharp".

You'll need to get the Ultra Fine rods and you'll need to use a strop. It has nothing to do with the design of the S/M - but more to do with grits. The Fine rods are about 1200 and the Ultra Fine ones are about 2000. And, by the way, you'll have to set a back bevel around 20 degrees, and only use the 30 degree setting on the S/M if you want to achieve a "Scary Sharp" level of sharpness.

Then, make yourself a good strop and put some CrO (green Chromium Oxide) compound on it and finish the job. "Scary Sharp" is all about angles and a highly polished edge.
 
When I bought my Sharpmaker 204, it was the "standard M/F" set that comes with a Medium set of rods and a Fine set of rods.

At the same time I ordered mine, I also ordered a set of the "UF" (Ultra-Fine) rods AND a set of the Diamond rods.

I think I should have the bases covered with that set-up.

But I'm still saving for the Edge-Pro Professional model to give me the capability to do almost type of sharpening I need.

Tim
 
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