How is Benchmades Heat Treat

I have an s30v grizzly creek. I think their heat treat is subpar and not worth half the money they charge for their knives. It's way too soft. It's not giving me close to the full potential of s30v and has since made me seek out better steels/heat treats. 420 and cheap knives I find roll and blunt the edge from a stern look. This benchmade will open a few packages maybe before you get edge rolling. Close to 40 degrees, sharpened on diamonds, deburred etc. If my grizzly creek tested out at even 58.5 hrc I would be shocked. I am tired of not getting to see "supersteel" performance out of s30v because of too soft of a heat treat. I mean you'll never get the advantage of the abrasive wear resistance from the carbide because the steel fails by the edge rolling far sooner.

If you are going to set a benchmade, I would highly recommend only getting a knife in their m4. It's the highest hrc steel they use/heat treat and I think you might have a shot at a decent knife with the m4. Maybe their magnacut if it's up higher than 62 or 63 hrc. CRK is heat treating magnacut to 63-64. I will never buy another s30v or s90v knife from benchmade.

Look into Hogue too. Same axis lock as benchmades but their running magnacut blades at 62-64 hrc. I dont have any magnacut, but I'd like to think with that heat treat you'd get good edge strength and stability and it's no slouch in wear resistance if your edge doesn't fail early by rolling. Also half the price of benchmade.
 
Also another thing I keep in mind is i only have one benchmade knife. They could've done better on other knives. But also they advertise 58-60 hrc for their s30v. To me that means I'd expect 58.

Another thought, some folks say s30v is chippy. I always thought they were making it up because I couldn't chip the s30v on this knife if I tried, it rolls so easily. So that to me is also an indicator of two things. My particular knife is soft. And second s30v is capable of much more with a better heat treat.
 
I have and have had plenty of Benchmade knives, but have never had an issue with what I could contribute as a heat treat problem. That said, I probably wouldn’t even notice a deviation of +/- 2 hrc in my use and sharpening.
 
I just went and looked at benchmades website again. It's interesting they are starting to branch out and use other steels. Now using magnacut which they didn't list a hrc for. Their m4 listed at 62-64. They are using s45vn in a hunting knife listed at 60-62 hrc. Which makes me wonder if they're learning some from running their s30v and s90v so low. Maybe. It seems like you'd have to be specific about which steel in a knife you wanted from them then see how they're heat treating that exact steel.
 
Benchmade's heat treat has been good on every knife I ever got from them.

Sadly, due to the "hardness nerds", they have begun running their steel harder to satisfy them...which led to my friend getting chipping issues on his latest Benchmade.
You see, not everyone wants to be able to cut miles of cardboard; strangely, people use their knives for other materials and tasks as well!

Benchmade was up to the task for all these years, but apparently the only thing which exists in the world in these later days of the internet is cardboard, so we have ended up where we are. :(

Edit: I got sucked into this Necropost! Nooooo!!!! :D
 
I have been disappointed with everyones S30v so I won’t comment on that but I like what Benchmade does with M4 and 20cv.
 
stabman said:
Benchmade's heat treat has been good on every knife I ever got from them.

Sadly, due to the "hardness nerds", they have begun running their steel harder to satisfy them...which led to my friend getting chipping issues on his latest Benchmade.
You see, not everyone wants to be able to cut miles of cardboard; strangely, people use their knives for other materials and tasks as well!

Benchmade was up to the task for all these years, but apparently the only thing which exists in the world in these later days of the internet is cardboard, so we have ended up where we are. :(

Edit: I got sucked into this Necropost! Nooooo!!!! :D
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Hardness nerds have a point, these steels have an optimal hardness that has been trialed and tested, some companies choose to run them softer to minimize warranty claims from people who use a 3" folder as a prybar.

Maybe it's a lemon (not uncommon for large batch heat treats) I've also had issues with every single factory edge on the dozen or so Benchmades I've had. Jagged, burrs, burnt, and recurves on all 5 940s I've ordered. Before I gave up on the brand, I used to reprofile every Benchmade I got as long as it didn't have any other defects (I've had to return a few too). Once I did that they all performed in line with other companies. And before you call me a hater, I've had burnt edges with Spyderco and ZT, the former required several sharpenings before it stopped behaving like glass. They sharpen these on low grit belts and it's fairly easy to "burn" the edge, remember the ZT Elmax drama? Yeah... I had to contact ZT because I thought I purchased a knock-off, thing was worse than gerber's "surgical steel".
 
He's right. It has nothing to do with harness nerds. A knife that's heat treated too softly will fail by easily folding or rolling the edge. That's what I'd expect from a Walmart knife. When you start paying hundreds of dollars I start expecting top notch performance as I expect the company to have done a pretty much perfect heat treat.

Asking a knife to not be too soft that it rolls but rather has the strength to keep its apex in its normal shape so you get the benefit of the better wearing steels, is not extreme or being a steel nerd, its normal.

That's what the knifes job is, and benchmades job to make sure it does it. Which I agree, they're putting out softer knives to limit warranty claims. Because while you have to deal with the soft steel and reduced performance, the guys doing stupid stuff with their knives aint breaking them. I don't see this as steel nerds getting what they want, I think it's consumers holding manufacturers responsible and demanding products that meet the performance that were paying the butterfly tax premium for. Benchmades website shows a s45vn knife from them they're now targeting 60-62 hrc. Sounds to me like they're responding to feedback from consumers possibly. I'd like to hope so.
 
stabman said:
Benchmade's heat treat has been good on every knife I ever got from them.

Sadly, due to the "hardness nerds", they have begun running their steel harder to satisfy them...which led to my friend getting chipping issues on his latest Benchmade.
You see, not everyone wants to be able to cut miles of cardboard; strangely, people use their knives for other materials and tasks as well!

Benchmade was up to the task for all these years, but apparently the only thing which exists in the world in these later days of the internet is cardboard, so we have ended up where we are. :(
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Cardboard? I heard the craze for high hardness was for instagram likes…
I think the newbs, I mean “hardness nerds” are afraid of sharpening so they want it to be good for 6 months then send it in to the manufacturer to be sharpened.
All I can say is get a good strop/compound and practice and keep up with it, no matter the steel or HRC. It’s just way easier that way, and your knife will be sharp all the time.
 
Kryme said:
Hardness nerds have a point, these steels have an optimal hardness that has been trialed and tested, some companies choose to run them softer to minimize warranty claims from people who use a 3" folder as a prybar.

Maybe it's a lemon (not uncommon for large batch heat treats) I've also had issues with every single factory edge on the dozen or so Benchmades I've had.
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My friend was using his knife to scrape a gasket surface when the edge got wrecked, a task that his Benchmade in 154CM had done without any issues before. No prying involved.
I have more woods use with my blades than him, and certainly more "Bushcraft" finesse, but he is a working man who uses his knives for, well, work. He doesn't mind sharpening his knives, but when bits fall off the edge that is bad.

I have had good luck with Benchmade edges, except for the serrations on my original Adamas (they were crap), and the entire edge on my Gravitator was dull when bought (both the serrations and plain edge section). What has been worst for me with Benchmade are the tips on their fixed blade knives. For some reason every folding knife I have bought from them has a great pointy tip, but about half the tips on the fixed blade knives I bought had to be immediately worked on. Fortunately, since I also make knives, I can put a decent tip on them. ;)

elevator man said:
He's right. It has nothing to do with harness nerds. A knife that's heat treated too softly will fail by easily folding or rolling the edge. That's what I'd expect from a Walmart knife. When you start paying hundreds of dollars I start expecting top notch performance as I expect the company to have done a pretty much perfect heat treat.

Asking a knife to not be too soft that it rolls but rather has the strength to keep its apex in its normal shape so you get the benefit of the better wearing steels, is not extreme or being a steel nerd, its normal.
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What are you doing when the edge rolls?
Is it the factory edge--which could be overheated or a wire edge--or the edge after you have sharpened it?

I have never experienced a rolled edge on any Benchmade knife I've had, and a moderator who posted earlier said that all the Benchmade knives he tested for hardness fell into the specified, advertised range.

And yes, I know what a rolled edge looks like, as they turn up on machetes during use at times, or even some of the bigger chopping knives when you hit embedded barbed wire or something like that. Or on cheap garbage knives, but I haven't had to use one of those for quite a while now.

I'm open to the possibility that a steel alloy will arise that can be ultra-hard while not getting chipped by real-life usage by folks like my friend, but I haven't seen it yet.

tony281sc2 said:
Cardboard? I heard the craze for high hardness was for instagram likes…
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That did seem to be the case during the great Rockwell controversy...
 
154CM is more likely to roll than chip in my experience compared to (I assume) was S30V or M390. Not to mention scraping gaskets isn't exactly something a pocket knife is intended for. Again, it could be a lemon, with large scale production it happens. I remember a few years back they got criticized over their HT on a batch of M390 710s (the blue and black G10 ones), a more recent case was the 3V on Bailout or Bugout where they tried to gaslight their way out of it. My point is no production company is perfect, it's how they handle their mistakes that sets them apart.
 
I have several BM in ATs34, 440c, S35N and 154cm spanning several years. All have good heat treat.
 
They use a lot of 154CM and S30V, steels which I have not had good experiences with from any company, including Benchmade.

I do know their S45VN and M4 perform well though.


So it’s very difficult to generalize.
 
20+ years of carrying Benchmade. I've only ever chipped 440c.

I've done obscene things with 154. Which I preferred the BM warranty department not to worry about that.

S30v. Whatever you think of it. It smokes 154.

S20v. Why isn't anyone complaining?

Either buy the knife or not. It's Benchmade.
 
stabman said:
Sadly, due to the "hardness nerds", they have begun running their steel harder to satisfy them...which led to my friend getting chipping issues on his latest Benchmade.
You see, not everyone wants to be able to cut miles of cardboard; strangely, people use their knives for other materials and tasks as well!

Benchmade was up to the task for all these years, but apparently the only thing which exists in the world in these later days of the internet is cardboard, so we have ended up where we are. :(
Click to expand...

Indeed, hardness and a good heat treatment aren't necessarily the same thing. It can be an indicator but it's not the whole story. It's also important to remember that different steels do different things at different hardness.

I think the relevant issue exposed by various "hardness nerds" is that certain steels are expected to have certain properties, people are likely to buy knives in those steels based on on those expectations, and not all manufacturers treat those steels in a way that allows them to deliver on those expectations. For instance, there was a lot of controversy over M390 being run in the fifties and not performing as well as expected.

To further complicate things, factory edges don't tell the whole story. Aside from whether you like the factory angle, you never know how much heat was generated along that apex. Too much heat can undermine a good heat treatment, leading to reduced edge retention or bad behavior like excess chipping. So if you've noticed better behavior or an increase in edge retention after sharpening a few times, it might not just be your amazing sharpening skills. 😜
 
My knife rolls or bends at the apex most of the time before I sharpen it. No way its a factory edge, 5 year old knife sharpened countless times. No wire edge, sharpened with diamonds to around 35 degrees inclusive. Care taken to create a small burr and set apex then deburr properly. Light usage is all it sees, cutting open packages/boxes, zip ties etc.

I am not saying benchmade is a horrible company or that they're not putting out nice knives. And I believe they hit their advertised hrc numbers. My point is they are aiming for too low hrc numbers to start with or at least do with their s30v. I most certainly feel i would see better performance out of my knife with a better heat treat. Is it possible that I got a lemon or bad batch? Yeah. But right now I'd rather move on to other companies and steels to see what I get out of some high hardness tool steel. I would buy another benchmade. But I would not ever buy another benchmade with s30v or s90v especially if they still advertise 58-60 as their hardness.
 
stabman said:
My friend was using his knife to scrape a gasket surface when the edge got wrecked, a task that his Benchmade in 154CM had done without any issues before. No prying involved.
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Was it the same model of knife, sharpened to the same angle? I know the previously hollow-ground 154CM Griptilian models went to partially flat ground S30V.

I'm curious if the S30V blade in question happened to be harder than the 154CM? IIRC, Benchmade runs their S30V at 58-60 HRC, and their 154CM at 58-61 HRC.
 
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elevator man said:
My knife rolls or bends at the apex most of the time before I sharpen it. No way its a factory edge, 5 year old knife sharpened countless times. No wire edge, sharpened with diamonds to around 35 degrees inclusive. Care taken to create a small burr and set apex then deburr properly. Light usage is all it sees, cutting open packages/boxes, zip ties etc.

I am not saying benchmade is a horrible company or that they're not putting out nice knives. And I believe they hit their advertised hrc numbers. My point is they are aiming for too low hrc numbers to start with or at least do with their s30v. I most certainly feel i would see better performance out of my knife with a better heat treat. Is it possible that I got a lemon or bad batch? Yeah. But right now I'd rather move on to other companies and steels to see what I get out of some high hardness tool steel. I would buy another benchmade. But I would not ever buy another benchmade with s30v or s90v especially if they still advertise 58-60 as their hardness.
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No. The experience you’re describing isn’t “aiming too low” on the hrc range. It sounds like your sh!t’s made out of cheese. I wouldn’t expect a blade treated to anything north of 50hrc to behave the way you’re describing.

Benchmade does a fantastic heat treatment on s30v. I haven’t had anything near to what you’re describing out of mine. If all my folder blades were like the s30v from BM, I wouldn’t mind one bit.

You need to send that thing in and get it checked and/or swapped out. It shouldn’t do that at all.
 
I have seen SEM images of knives edges with high carbide content (Maxamet, K390 and S110V).
If you don't take in account high carbide steel behave somehow different at the edge when sharpening you can introduce cracks and the result will be micro chipping at the edge.
Could be this also goes for s30v and similar steel.
 
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