How is it done?

Hoerchner

Hoerchner

Joined
Jan 8, 2006
Messages
111
How do manufacturers make a lot of identical ground blades? Is there some machinery that will grind multiple blades at one time, such as a water jet or laser, or are all of the blades on a given product done by hand? Hand grinding seems like it would be slow and expensive, and impossible to keep identical, or at least it seems to me. But if I wanted to do a run of 5 to 500 identical folders, and could do the handles on water jet and laser cutting equiptment, does anybody know how to get the grinds on the blades? I can cut them out, but what is the processing method to form a blade? I would sure appreciate any direction or help available. Thanks, Hoerchner
 
I have been thinking the same on a smaller scale 10-20 knives. I talked with a waterjet company and they will cut about anything for about $2.00 tp 3.00 each piece. You supply the material. Must also provide a CADD drawing. I had seen some old machinery which was two grinding stones and the knife blade pushed between to make the edge.
 
Most production blades are cut and machined on a CNC machine.
On production knives, when they say hand made, that usually means the first one was made by a designer, then it was programmed into a CNc machine and duplicated.

There are companies such as Russell knives which are actually made by a person in a shop. (many persons)

You can have blanks cut out with a water jet machine, but you still have to grind the bevels on them.
 
There's a "Modern Marvels" episode about kitchen knives. The blanks are stamped several at a time from sheets of steel, then CNC ground to shape.

Takes all the fun out of it if you ask me ;)
 
I'd be interested to hear which machines you guys are refering to and where you've seen them operate?

Most blade grinding machinery used today in industrial fabrication in Germany is not really CNC machinery in the sense that one thiks of when refering to milling and turning or CAM applications. The grinders don't have a controller or use G-code like milling and turning machinery. They use combinations of hydralic, electric and mechanical systems to bring the blank into contact with the grinding wheels and all operate under flood cooling. Blades are typically ground hardened.

Only the more recent generation of automated grinders are truely CNC controlled and even middle sized companies have a hard time paying the upwards of $500,000+ that these machines cost. Berger and Siepmann – both based in the Ruhr area – are the two of the best known makers of automated blade grinding machinery. Search for these companies and you can see what real blade grinders look like.

The more common Siepmann flat grinders are actually two seperate machines which are a mirror images of each other. One machine grinds one side of the blade and the other machine grinds the other side. The blanks are manually installed and removed on each machine one at a time. This means that the operator must stand at the machine installing blanks and inspecting each one all day long. The two machines weigh about 24,000 pounds! and have 30 HP motors.

Knowing how to fabricate the blade holder, how to mount it in the machine and angle it in order to achieve the desired grind profile requires a LOT of experience and skill. There ain't no computer involved... except the one in the machine operator's head. These machines typically are used to grind heat treated blanks for kitchen cutlery.

Seperate machines are used to surface grind the blanks and to fine grind the blades after these have been rough ground. These machines also weigh tons.

There are still a lot of older hollow grinding machines in use as well. These machines grind both sides of the blade at one time. Usually the blade will be ground in several passes. The current generation of hollow grinders produce a much better grind than the older machines.

Blanks may be produced by stamping (cheapest), drop forging or laser cutting. Water jet cutting may be used but I've only seen laser cutting of blanks for industrial production.
 
You guys, and maybe gals, sure know your stuff. Thanks for all the info! But if they have to rely on hand grinding for all the decent blades, it seems like there would be some noticable variations from one knife to the next, or some damn good people pushing the steel. And how can a company, say someone like Busse that seems to kick out quite a few of each edition, get their fancy grinds so tight? Does it all really come down to a crew that can grind that well? Let's look at a real example. The new "Blades Illustrated", page 11 about the SHOT Show, has a photo, second knife from the top, of "Jim Wagner's Reality Based Blade system is the source for this Boker folder." That is one complex grind. If anything is off a multi-ton grinding machine, I would say this is it. Can a crew of people really do these grinds over and over and have them come out virtually indistinguishable, one from the other? If so, there is a lot of ferocious talent somewhere. Where does one find such people, and what do they make? I can see getting an ongroud blank made on a water jet, but that is a long ways from that blade. Has anybody ever worked somewhere making blades from blanks? I'd like to hear from you if you have, just to see how it's done. Thanks again, Hoerchner (714) 673-4652, and call collect. Or leave a number at (714) 641-8650
 
All production knives I know of are ground using grinding machinery of various complexity. Very few production blades are hand ground and these come out of smaller operations such as Chris Reeve Knives, H.P. Klötzli or the more traditional Japanese factories where I've read the William Henry blades are produced. Some of the Chinese factories may grind some stuff by hand but even they are mostly used machinery.

There are a lot of "hand operations" going into most production knives but not much hand grinding of blades. It's not cost effective for anything but very very short runs.
 
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