how is the yokote made?

T

tanto_dude

Joined
Jan 25, 2008
Messages
41
hello, I have been experimenting with polishing styles and perhaps the most complex way of polishing is that of the katana. I tried to replicate the edge based on what others had said and it worked out pretty well, but there was one problem with it, the kissaki. I formed the edge and the kissaki but the yokote won't show up, what am I doing wrong?
 
this is my first real start-to-finish knife =) I am shaping a new knife out of a bar of steel I found in my garage. im making a tanto but instead of a seamless shape i wanted to go for something more defined. the link you sent really helped, thanks! what i'm doing is a shaping with the file before the clay quench as to not let it crack, then afterward i can use stones to get the edge down.
 
Well don't worry about getting it sharp or polished before heat treating, being sharp (and thus thin) will cause it to warp, and you'll have to re-polish after heat treating. Leave it around the thickness of a dime. Have you read the beginner sticky up top here yet?

Good luck :]

You've picked a tough first project. I never had much luck with mine, but then I wasn't very good then. :p
 
With all due respect, do you know the bar of steel you found in your garage is made of? It will do you no good to heat treat it if it's mild steel and you'll just end up with a KSO (knife shaped object).

-d
 
the shape is coming very well, im very surprised (everything I do is usually based on murphy's law) the link you sent helped a lot. as for the question about the steel, it was from a sword bought on the internet, I shortened the sword and what I was left with was a little bar of steel, the website I bought it from, im afraid, says it's stainless (but they say that about everything) strangely it seems quite stainable. I hope It works okay, but that's what experimenting is for i guess.

most people think a kid that makes knives is weird, I agree completely, I am weird.
 
A lot of cheaper stainless swords use a lower quality of stainless such as 440A or B. Sometimes even lesser grades than that. If it is staining readily, it may not have even been heat treated in the first place, as stainless needs to be heat treated to get the most stain resistance out of it.

--nathan
 
scrap it..

Using what you have is going to be counter productive to all the hard work you're going to be doing.
 
Tanto-dude,
Your profile tells me little, but your post tells me a lot.

It has taken me years to learn togi, and I am still an amateur.
What you have posted shows that you have done no preparation for this project.
To attempt to tell you how to do the togi for the yokote would take more bandwidth than this small post can hold.
I suggest that you set the blade aside, get a book on knifemaking and read it. And, after making the knife as a standard blade, if you wish to learn the art of the Japanese blade, start reading many,many books. "The Art of Japanese sword Polishing", by Setsuo Takaiwa is one of the best available ( in English - if you tread Japanese, there are many good references). This will only tell you how to polish the sword blade. Making it is an entirely different subject.

As a rule, starting with a Japanese blade is a bad idea. It may take years to perfect the techniques needed. There is a lot more to it than just the shape.

Some basic info:
The togi beyond the foundation is all done after heat treatment.
The yokote is not formed at the time of the ha and ji.
The process involves many steps, most of which are repeated form six to ten times, as the stones get finer. First shitaji togi, and final shiagi togi.
The final definition of the kissaki, and the yokote are done at the very end with minute hazuya and a tool called a narumedai. This is a very complex process.

Final notes:
Togi is done as a complete process. The blade becomes razor sharp long before it becomes fully polished. Improper polishing technique can remove whole fingers or parts of the hand.

Any mis-step in the process can send you back several steps.

Expect the first Japanese tanto to take a very long time to polish. We are not talking hours, but weeks and months.

Stainless will develop no character, and will not make a proper Japanese blade. It will work as a simple tanto shaped knife, but would never polish right. I would do it with sandpaper and a hardwood block, finishing with Flitz. Forget the yokote until the blade is completely finished, and then mask it off and try to polish the kissaki back to the masking tape. This will work ( and show) best if you leave the kissaki sanded but not polished with the flitz. The slight frosting will accentuate the yokote and the ko-shinogi transition to the hasaki and the shinogi.

Stacy
 
Holy smokes, I didn't understand a lick of that except "don't try this at home..."

Sounds very complicated....
 
Yep, Brian.
I've done the reading and rereading of the techiques, I have all the stones and supplies, and I'm still not sure I want to mess up the three blades I have had for a bit over 20 years: Engnath Katana, Engnath Tanto, and Slobodian Tanto (1 of 14 he made for sale as a kits) blanks.
I should try it on a differentially heat-treated blank I have, huh?
Have fun doing it, tanto dude, and try not to lose any body parts...
 
Hmm..let me see if I can help you out a bit..

Making a yokote is not the easiest thing ting in the world to do..
and describing it by mail is even more difficult..but I will try to describe it in very broad terms...here goes...

In very simple teams the yokote appears because the is a change of angle from the ji to the kissaki, thats why on a sword with a ko-kissaki the yokote is very defined whereas on a sword with an o-kissaki it is much less defined.
Sometimes when you don't have any steel to "work" with you "draw" it in instead.

You make the yokote in the first one or two stages in shitaji-togi.
If you start from the ji, you imagine the yokote and "hit" that spot every time, it may be that your imaginary yokote and the actual yokote don't quite match...
Lets say that your "real" yokote is above where it should be , you would then work from the kissaki and bring it down, then you would work from the ji again and refine it a bit more, then from the kissaki again..and so on untill you have a clear and well defined yokote that is in the correct place.

Ofcause you cant just grind away..you always have to think about the "niku" in the kissaki and in the ji and the "mitsukado and the ko-shinogi and, and.. I think you get the picture.

One more thing is, if you make the yokote too pronounced, when you try to bring out jigane under the yokote, you will have a very difficult time...
Since the yokote is ever so slightly "higher" the the area below it, you will hit the yokote instead and not bring out any jigane..not easily anyway.

Hope I have helped you out a wee bit?

Just in case you wonder how I know this, well I spent 9 1/2 years learning it from one of the top polishers here in Japan..and believe me that is a long time..:D
But at least I finished and I did win a number of prizes in the yearly sword polishing competition...( a bit of shameless self promotion:D)
 
I will be the first to admit that I don't know much about Japanese swords but have you looked up "hybrid polishing" on youtube? Can't remember his name but does a great job in his free video series on youtube.

I also might recommend a different site, look for Don Fogg's site. Lot of Japanese sword stuff on there.
 
thank you all, its been helpful. is the polishing video by Walter Sorrels any good, it seems over priced. i am just making this one to get a feel for the polishing and heat treating before I start putting money and long hours into a good one. I'm trying to start somewhere. at this point im going for a "knife shaped object"
 
NickWheeler said:
Shouldn't YOU, out of all of us here, be some kind of expert on this???

:p :p :p

:D
Click to expand...

:p Nick, I actually get asked that kind of stuff pretty often and all I can say is this. By definition, any knife I make is Japanese influenced due to my genetics. I don't need fancy books, twisting my tongue trying to pronounce Japanese words, wrapped handles, tsubas, bamboo or prancing around in a kimono to make my knives authentically Japanese because I am a Japanese redneck.

Do you have any idea how often I get asked about making tantos, katanas and "ninja" swords :( or throwing stars :barf:

Japanese stuff is the way it is because that's all they had to work with and they're a hidebound society. The judging standards for swordmakers over there destroys any chance of innovation from the new makers and the old makers are trapped by their rankings. Japanese stuff isn't magical... it's neat and some of the artistic and martial concepts are really fun to try to wrap your head around but far from magical.

Occidentals that out Japanese me amuse me to no end. Course during hunting season I'm one of the biggest rednecks you'll meet so I guess it balances out. :p

Now excuse me while I clean the beer cans out of the back of my Chevy pickup! :D
 
tanto_dude said:
thank you all, its been helpful. is the polishing video by Walter Sorrels any good, it seems over priced. i am just making this one to get a feel for the polishing and heat treating before I start putting money and long hours into a good one. I'm trying to start somewhere. at this point im going for a "knife shaped object"
Click to expand...


it's going to take you alot longer than "one" to get the feel for Heat treating...let alone any kind of polishing

unless you're gifted, lucky, or both
 
I would like a Leavitt throwing star!!!! Maybe 6 of them actually!!!:D :D :D

"Japanese redneck" Ah I love it! :D It's got a nice ring to it!

I'm glad this place is getting back to where we can all make fun of each other and have a good time doing it! :D

-Jerkass Wheeler- :D
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top