How Large Are Ya Prepared To Carry ?

[koyote]

I know kgd will take his along on a day hike, but I just have to post pictures of this one, the leukuchete is a nice one to have around:

 

[raylaconico]

Christof, I like that one:thumbup:

 

[kgd]

I know kgd will take his along on a day hike, but I just have to post pictures of this one, the leukuchete is a nice one to have around:

Some folks are just used to hauling around 10"

Cool wrap on that one!

 

[koyote]

linen weaving cordage, 4 strands hand spun into a thin rope section, wrapped and soaked in a loose CA before a whole handle linseed oil soak. feels good and looks a bit unique

 

[bulgron]

Through decades-long habit I always have a knife around 5.5" blade length when I step off the pavement. If I'm going to be around a lot of people, I just stick it in my pack so I don't make the nervous masses even more nervous, but I always have it.

Currently I carry a Chris Reeves Mountaineer II for this purpose. I'm confident I can successfully use it for whatever situation I might find myself in so long as I don't hit it with a big steel mallet. So I leave the big steel mallet at home.

Beyond that, I usually have a necker of some kind in a pocket or hanging from a lanyard, and I often have a folder in my pocket just out of habit.

 

[jw2n]

I always have a fixed blade with a 3-4 inch blade. If I do not carry my hatchet or saw, then I carry a Randall 14 or 16, or I have a number of knives with 9 or 10 inch blades that I like. So, the OAL would be in the 13-16 inch range. For the larger knives, I have a Busse BM, CS TM, Fallkniven Tor, S. Sibert Particle Accelerator, and an E. Davidson BLT. Before I could afford these better blades, I used a Western 49 bowie.

 

[midnight flyer]

I think you have missed the point of my post buddy, as Cody Lundin says in his book most survival situations happen because day hikes go wrong !
Therefore being as prepared as we all are would it not be wise to carry the knife we envisage as our perfect survival knife even if just on a day hike ?

Well, that could well be true. No doubt. But after a few decades of hiking, I don't know exactly where a chopper would have saved my skin on a 8 - 12 hour hike on a known trail. My day hikes are usually in state parks, on trails or just off of them.

Down here, our weather is eerily predictable. So I am not worried about being trapped in monsoon rains, and it never snows here (OK - every 20-25 years) so no fear of falling in a drift or experiencing an avalanche. We do have intense heat here, so dehydration is always a real problem. I have been known to shuck my clothes and jump into the cold spring waters around here! I could fall and break a bone, or sprain something. We have no feral animals with a taster for human flesh around here, at least none I know of!

I can't see any of those common local conditions where a different knife would be of any utility value.

So to get to the point ' what is the maximum length of knife you are prepared to carry when on day hikes etc,

So for a day hike under my conditions, I will stay with my 3 1/4 bladed Kershaw heavy duty. It could slice a branch easily to make a sling, cut a branch to make a crutch, slice off enough cedar bark to make ties for splints if treating broken bones, cut little fuzzies to make a right smart fire, cut paracord if needed, or make a spear or walking stick. It can easily cut gauze, nylon strapping, duct tape, and open all manner of packaging for all manner of uses.

Should I assume I need a bigger knife for few hours of outing? If so, and I do mean this seriously... why?

When I go out I have found my first aid kit and water filter to be my best friends. When trauma hits, I have a full first aid kit, signal equipment, utility braided rope, and a small pancho in my mini day pack that goes whenever I go out.

For me, the knife (although the most fun of the group) is an integral part of my overall kit outdoors kit. I guarantee my first aid pouch/kit is much more valuable in trauma most of the time to me than a "survival knife" would be.

But for the questions you didn't ask; the question of planning for the possibility surprise weather. The question of losing all your gear except your knife (hope it's on your belt!) putting you in a position where you must depend on your one single blade for your very survival, the question of being out lost, alone, out of food, with just your (favorite, of course!) blade separating you from the elements of disaster....

For anything overnight, any trip on an unknown trail (no matter the duration), or for a really rugged trail, I like one of two knives. My Ontario RAT 7 or 5 in D2. The OAL on the 7 is 12", and the 5 is 10 3/4".

I always read with keen interest when they find a hiker that was lost for three days and had only a candy bar. Or that boy that was lost a few months ago for a few days that had NO gear at all. Those stories are too numerous to miss.

And with all respect, I have never once read a story where the person that "walked out" from a long absence or was "saved" after days of literally surviving that said they had a survival knife to thank for their well being. In fact, when I read their stories, rarely is a knife mentioned. IIRC, one boy said he whittled with his scout knife to pass the time until rescue, but that's it.

Maybe I don't read the right stuff, but I haven't seen one story yet where someone (man/woman/child) said they were saved because they pulled out a XXXX knife and chopped out a shelter, sparked up a fire, made traps or bows and arrow, or spears or gigs to get game. I haven't seen where they defended themselves against a bear, used it to make a spear or a stone mallet for self defense, it use it in some way to signal for help, or anything else.

They survive on confidence, their wits, their calm attitude and in some cases their experience. I like all of that, but hedge my bets with my favorite knives as well.

I think people carry what they have confidence in using based on their own circumstances and location. I also think that certain knives invoke a certain confidence by just having them. Their reputation carries as much weight as their usefullness, and besides, they are fun to play with!

As always... just my 0.02.

Robert

 

[DOC-CANADA]

midnight flyer: ...I haven't seen where they defended themselves against a bear, used it to make a spear or a stone mallet for self defense, it use it in some way to signal for help, or anything else.

Hey midnight flyer,

Not picking on anything in your post, but I thought you might like to read this.

Now, I guess, you'll never be able to honestly state the above again. (His knife was a Buck 119).

ETA: And here's one I remember reading about a few years back - this is a cougar though, no, I'm not talking about one of Talfuchre's old girlfriends.

Unfortunately the article doesn't tell you the outcome, but he killed the cat with a Buck 110.

Here's another one with a less favourable outcome. If you read down the article, you'll see her husband tried to fight the bear off with a Swiss Army Knife.. I bet you he would've loved to have something a bit larger.

Doc

 

[midnight flyer]

Well, wherever there's a nit to pick, there's a nit to pick it, right?

I was actually trying to post something intelligent to respond to PITDOG's good question. He was being sincere, so was I. Then there you were.....

I should have said Burmese python, a rutting moose, a Kodiak, a rabid squirrel, or something along those lines. I was trying to make a point. I honestly don't know how many folks fight off or kill bears with knives. Bad on me for picking that animal.

Besides, on one example, I call FOUL. Come on... what would you do? The damn bear was after his dog!! Sure, scream for help if it's one of your buddies in danger, but threatening a man's dog is praying for death!

And to help make MY point using your several years old cougar story, ( thanks - I know you had to search hard for these examples! ) a Buck 110 is smaller than my Kershaw JYD II. Having owned both, I can promise more utility value out of the JYD, but I would be perfectly comfortable on a DAY HIKE with a Buck 110. Besides, we now know that even in defense, you can kill a cougar with a medium sized folder!

Seems actual survival blades can come in many sizes.

Seriously... in the age of the internet you can find any example of anything. I am pleased for you that you found these examples, but I would like you to consider how many folks survive horrifying, death defying situations without a knife their hand.

Now the good news about your link story is that if I am attacked by a cougar, I now know I have a chance at survival if I can quit running and screaming long enough to get my knife out of my pocket and get it open!

Maybe not....

Robert

 

[bulgron]

And with all respect, I have never once read a story where the person that "walked out" from a long absence or was "saved" after days of literally surviving that said they had a survival knife to thank for their well being. In fact, when I read their stories, rarely is a knife mentioned. IIRC, one boy said he whittled with his scout knife to pass the time until rescue, but that's it.

Could it be that this is because the people with the "survival knife" (whatever that is) don't typically need saving, but instead are able to get themselves out of whatever jam they're in so that the newspapers have nothing to report?

Just thinking out loud here.

 

[GrinderMcgee]

I always have an 8" or less overall blade on the belt. In the woods I never forget the Buck saw or the chopper which is up to 16" total length.

 

[BushcraftBrainTrust]

However big I think I'll need.

 

[tholiver]

Well, wherever there's a nit to pick, there's a nit to pick it, right?

I was actually trying to post something intelligent to respond to PITDOG's good question. He was being sincere, so was I. Then there you were.....

I should have said Burmese python, a rutting moose, a Kodiak, a rabid squirrel, or something along those lines. I was trying to make a point. I honestly don't know how many folks fight off or kill bears with knives. Bad on me for picking that animal.

Besides, on one example, I call FOUL. Come on... what would you do? The damn bear was after his dog!! Sure, scream for help if it's one of your buddies in danger, but threatening a man's dog is praying for death!

And to help make MY point using your several years old cougar story, ( thanks - I know you had to search hard for these examples! ) a Buck 110 is smaller than my Kershaw JYD II. Having owned both, I can promise more utility value out of the JYD, but I would be perfectly comfortable on a DAY HIKE with a Buck 110. Besides, we now know that even in defense, you can kill a cougar with a medium sized folder!

Seems actual survival blades can come in many sizes.

Seriously... in the age of the internet you can find any example of anything. I am pleased for you that you found these examples, but I would like you to consider how many folks survive horrifying, death defying situations without a knife their hand.

Now the good news about your link story is that if I am attacked by a cougar, I now know I have a chance at survival if I can quit running and screaming long enough to get my knife out of my pocket and get it open!

Maybe not....

Robert

For more recent "animal attacks" incidents check out the thread on the Coyote attack in Cape Breton.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=686734
A few weeks back a girl was killed by two Coyotes while walking the trails there.

 

[Cpl Punishment]

I always read with keen interest when they find a hiker that was lost for three days and had only a candy bar. Or that boy that was lost a few months ago for a few days that had NO gear at all. Those stories are too numerous to miss.

And with all respect, I have never once read a story where the person that "walked out" from a long absence or was "saved" after days of literally surviving that said they had a survival knife to thank for their well being. In fact, when I read their stories, rarely is a knife mentioned. IIRC, one boy said he whittled with his scout knife to pass the time until rescue, but that's it.

Maybe I don't read the right stuff, but I haven't seen one story yet where someone (man/woman/child) said they were saved because they pulled out a XXXX knife and chopped out a shelter, sparked up a fire, made traps or bows and arrow, or spears or gigs to get game. I haven't seen where they defended themselves against a bear, used it to make a spear or a stone mallet for self defense, it use it in some way to signal for help, or anything else.

Well, a couple of points:
1.) You don't hear a lot about prepared people. It's much more interesting reading about the little boy who survived three days with just a candy bar. Why? Because prepared people rarely need "saving" (barring injury), and a problem turns into an impromptu camping trip -- not enough drama for a write-up.
2.) Read some of the posts/stories of SAR guys. How they needed a serious knife/hatchet/whatever and other gear commonly sniffed at by those who strive to carry as close to nothing as they can yet ends up saving their bacon because someone else carried it.

They survive on confidence, their wits, their calm attitude and in some cases their experience. I like all of that, but hedge my bets with my favorite knives as well.

I think people carry what they have confidence in using based on their own circumstances and location. I also think that certain knives invoke a certain confidence by just having them. Their reputation carries as much weight as their usefullness, and besides, they are fun to play with!

As always... just my 0.02.

Robert

Yes, but don't go too far with that. You may not encounter it where you live, but you don't have to go very far north in the US to find snow and freezing water in winter. So, can your SAK (the most common "It's all I need!!" knife I hear talked about) save your bacon when you've fallen through some ice into frozen water? Now that you have no fine motor skills for the small blade or saw? More importantly, even if you can control it well enough to make use of it, can you make the fire/shelter fast enough with it? There's a reason a lot of people carry those bigger tools.

 

[GRIM 62]

Good points,Cpl!

 

[DOC-CANADA]

Well, wherever there's a nit to pick, there's a nit to pick it, right?

I was actually trying to post something intelligent to respond to PITDOG's good question. He was being sincere, so was I. Then there you were.....

I should have said Burmese python, a rutting moose, a Kodiak, a rabid squirrel, or something along those lines. I was trying to make a point. I honestly don't know how many folks fight off or kill bears with knives. Bad on me for picking that animal.

Besides, on one example, I call FOUL. Come on... what would you do? The damn bear was after his dog!! Sure, scream for help if it's one of your buddies in danger, but threatening a man's dog is praying for death!

And to help make MY point using your several years old cougar story, ( thanks - I know you had to search hard for these examples! ) a Buck 110 is smaller than my Kershaw JYD II. Having owned both, I can promise more utility value out of the JYD, but I would be perfectly comfortable on a DAY HIKE with a Buck 110. Besides, we now know that even in defense, you can kill a cougar with a medium sized folder!

Seems actual survival blades can come in many sizes.

Seriously... in the age of the internet you can find any example of anything. I am pleased for you that you found these examples, but I would like you to consider how many folks survive horrifying, death defying situations without a knife their hand.

Now the good news about your link story is that if I am attacked by a cougar, I now know I have a chance at survival if I can quit running and screaming long enough to get my knife out of my pocket and get it open!

Maybe not....

Robert

Has everybody got a chip on their shoulder right now? The examples I provided were incidents I knew about. I thought it was helpful. I won't make that mistake again. :thumbdn:

Doc

 

[midnight flyer]

Yes, but don't go too far with that. You may not encounter it where you live, but you don't have to go very far north in the US to find snow and freezing water in winter. So, can your SAK (the most common "It's all I need!!" knife I hear talked about) save your bacon when you've fallen through some ice into frozen water? Now that you have no fine motor skills for the small blade or saw? More importantly, even if you can control it well enough to make use of it, can you make the fire/shelter fast enough with it? There's a reason a lot of people carry those bigger tools.

I understand.

I do.

I am careful.

I plan.

I know and understand why folks carry and prefer large knives. I pointed out that I also use a 12" knife as I deem necessary.

I am confident with my decision in a DAY HIKE knife (remember the OP) and it has served me well. For years I carried a Buck 119, but found it handy, not necessary for DAY HIKES on known ground, known trails and known conditions.

As explained above, I carry a 12" knife for anything but a day hike, and even then in some circumstances I find I carry a large knife for a day out.

You may not encounter it where you live, but you don't have to go very far north in the US to find snow and freezing water in winter.

I know my climate and terrain, and check the weather before I leave. I have been hiking/camping/hunting in S. Texas for over 40 years so I am happy with my own choices in all my gear. But I actually have buddy that can't go for a 8 - 10 mile hike without his 25# pack of stuff, one item being his prized mini machete. We look for stuff to do with it, and he is happy with it. One day, we may need it for something vital to our survival, I don't know.

But you obviously missed my earlier post (three or four up), which covered the salient points of my opinion. This what I wrote, and it addresses your concerns and holds my response in the frame it was intended:

Down here, our weather is eerily predictable. So I am not worried about being trapped in monsoon rains, and it never snows here (OK - every 20-25 years) so no fear of falling in a drift or experiencing an avalanche. We do have intense heat here, so dehydration is always a real problem. I have been known to shuck my clothes and jump into the cold spring waters around here! I could fall and break a bone, or sprain something. We have no feral animals with a taster for human flesh around here, at least none I know of!

I can't see any of those common local conditions where a different knife would be of any utility value.

So for a day hike under my conditions, I will stay with my 3 1/4 bladed Kershaw heavy duty. It could slice a branch easily to make a sling, cut a branch to make a crutch, slice off enough cedar bark to make ties for splints if treating broken bones, cut little fuzzies to make a right smart fire, cut paracord if needed, or make a spear or walking stick. It can easily cut gauze, nylon strapping, duct tape, and open all manner of packaging for all manner of uses.

When I go out I have found my first aid kit and water filter to be my best friends. When trauma hits, I have a full first aid kit, signal equipment, utility braided rope, and a small pancho in my mini day pack that goes whenever I go out.

For me, the knife (although the most fun of the group) is an integral part of my overall kit outdoors kit. I guarantee my first aid pouch/kit is much more valuable in trauma most of the time to me than a "survival knife" would be.


Note that my choices in gear are tuned to reflect personal experiences, local climactic conditions and the actual place I am going.

That was the intended tone of the post as well, addressing your particular concerns of weather related trauma when I wrote the first sentence of the above quote from my earlier post.

Read some of the posts/stories of SAR guys. How they needed a serious knife/hatchet/whatever and other gear commonly sniffed at by those who strive to carry as close to nothing as they can yet ends up saving their bacon because someone else carried it.

You must read my whole post of my day hike kit to get an idea of my WHOLE kit. The whole day kit, not just the knife. I am not like the folks you are referring to above, not one bit. I do not turn my nose up and sniff at anyone's gear. I do not rely on the kindness, professionalism, generosity, or ability of others for my own safety. Never have. There will certainly be a time when I have to, but it won't be because I didn't perform my own due diligence.

When I go out for an overnight trip, I carry enough for three days of the apocalypse. Its a bad habit I can't seem to break.

BUT YOU SHOULD KNOW THAT ON THIS VERY SITE, I WAS SNEERED AT FOR TAKING TOO MUCH GEAR WHEN I WENT OUT.

The "pancho/bottle of water/candy bar only" crowd went nuts over my gear list.

So no matter what you post, someone will disagree. In the end, I guess it come down to whatever works best for the individual. As long as you are safe, carry on.

Robert

Robert

 

[tholiver]

Has everybody got a chip on their shoulder right now? The examples I provided were incidents I knew about. I thought it was helpful. I won't make that mistake again. :thumbdn:

Doc

Doc to me your comments seemed sincere and helpful.
You are definitely are one of the more knowledgeable, helpful and polite people here.
As Esav said we all need to chill and aim for "less heat and more light".
Hopefully this thread will go back to a more friendly mood.

 

[Pritch]

Great topic, Pit. I agree with the premise underlying your question. Since most "survival situations" occur when a day hike goes bad, shouldn't we carry the appropriate survival gear?

Having said that, I often have chosen to leave the chopper at home because it "was just a day hike" and "I won't have time to play with it anyway." Certainly we carry all manner of gear with us when we intend to test it or practice some particular skill. But what about the day hike with the wife on short notice? It's hot, you're in a hurry, and she's impatient to just go. This reveals that an alarming mindset has crept in, classifying knives as toys and survival as a hobby, rather than serious tools and responsible skill sets for safely traveling in the wilderness! This is a sobering realization.

I may not intend to chop wood, build a shelter, or start a fire, but having the means and ability to do so could be essential. My new woods EDC is my Siegle SAR-4. I wear it in a horizontal crossdraw position when I don't have a pack on and am designing some kydex for when I am.

While I could press this sturdy fixed blade into all of the taskes likely to be necessary, a larger chopper would be better suited for some tasks. In the past I have carried my RAT-7 or Gerber BMF horizontally on the bottom of my fanny pack but after a bunch of times of nonuse they were eliminated.

Several things can push us toward not carrying a big chopper, though. First, they are heavy. Second, they can be difficult to carry, especially if you are wearing a sidearm. Third, they can cause alarm from other woods users. Fourth, they can provoke "chechako" and "tenderfoot" type comments from crusty old woods bums that think the ideal knife for skinning a moose is a tiny Old Timer folder. Finally, all of the above can really add up if the knife has gone unused on several outings.

I think I just need to "get over it." I've recently acquired a beutiful Busse FSH that I'm thinking of making a user.

-- FLIX

 

[DOC-CANADA]

Doc to me your comments seemed sincere and helpful.
You are definitely are one of the more knowledgeable, helpful and polite people here.
As Esav said we all need to chill and aim for "less heat and more light".
Hopefully this thread will go back to a more friendly mood.

Thanks th. I don't know what's going on right now - kgd was accused of being arrogant, in another thread.

This forum has alway been the most polite forum with the least amount of pissing contests. I'd hate to see that change.

Doc