How long does it take to make a custom knife?

Dr Lathe~

when i was reading your post .. i must firstly say that i agree with what you had to say for the most part.
i mean .. i for sure dont want to keep working for peanuts.

but you say that part of a successful knifemaker is streamlining so that you are not working for peanuts ...

dont you think, though, that it would come more to streamlining your process so that you, as a maker, is happy with the process?

i mean .. i have this arguement with my father all the time...
he says that the difference between forging and stock removal is nothing .. because for the collector that is just buying to put the blade up on a shelf .. it comes out the same.

but there is no way that i am going to stop forging .. and there is no way that i am going to stop using the methods that i use.
like when i am doing a japanese blade.. i stone grind the blade ..
and yes .. the end result is very much the same as just putting the blade on a grinder .. but the feeling that i get from the looking at my finished blade and knowing what i have done to get it like that ..
its half the reward as well as the money that the customer pays me.

so .. my question is that ... do you think that it simply comes down to a streamlined equation for profit ... or that other factors come into it?

((this is not limited to Dr Lathe... please . everyone give their 2c))

i do not mean to say that i disagree with what you have to say .. or that you are wrong .. just want to see what you (and others) think

thanks.

D.
 
I do stock removal only, but I agree with Dementia. You should never compromise your love of what you are creating and how, but I don't think Neil was saying you should. He was just saying it is good to make whatever you want in the most efficient manner you are comfortable with. Taking waste out of the process is just sound business and can make the process less tedious. That said there are a couple little things I do on all my knives that are no longer necessary, but I keep them in the process as part of the creative ritual. Everything else, I look for every shortcut I can find.
 
This has been an enthralling thread and I would like to thank RL for getting it started. What I have seen posted by different makers is pretty well exactly what I thought was the case.

What Neil added makes perfect sense to me. You must make your knifemaking as efficiently as possible, without making it a mechanical, none feeling process. The passion for doing the best that you can must remain, but over time there are always ways that you can learn to do the work in a way that cuts down the time necessary to make a knife without affecting the quality of the final product.

If a maker is known to me as one who takes extra time to make sure that his knife is as good as he can make it, I am willing to pay this maker for that care and attention. I do not think that anyone should have to work for next to nothing. I know that this can be hard to do for a new maker as he is trying to get his work known, but sometimes I am just amazed at the low prices I am quoted for some very nice knives.
 
KWM, you are most welcome and I thank all the makers for participating! I am still amazed every time at how we can communicate so directly with the knifemakers thanks to Bladeforums...long live Bladeforums!

RL
 
Dimentia,

You are right, I should have been more specific, success should be more defined. Every maker and there needs are different. I would continue to make knives even if I hit the lottery!! Untill then, I have to operate at somewhat of a profit or I might as well go back to working as a machinist. When I mentioned streamlining my processes I mentioned profit. There are many other benefits to continous improvement. In addition to profitability, I hope to see my quality and consistancy improving while my designs become more complex. Also, the business end of the knifemaking runs smoother. Supplies are ordered ahead of time, finances are organized and simple tasks like packing can easily be delegated to other family members.

KWM
If I did hit the lottery, I would buy a forge, anvil and airhammer!! I would also attend the first ABS class and many more after that!!!! It's very much like my folder program though, I can't close the shop doors while I learn how to do it properly:(

Neil
 
Dr. Lathe, do you really see things like that? You can't close your shop doors in order to learn how to do it better? With the 'DR.' in front of your name, you, of all people, should know the value of education. Closing your shop doors while learning how to do it better is an investment in your knifemaking future. Going to the ABS school was one of the best things I ever did for myself and my customers. And I 'closed my shop doors' for over a month while I took my classes.

Sure, I got behind in my work for that month. But, I had very good communication with my customers and recieved an enthusiastic round of encouragement from each and every one of them! In fact, they were all tickled that I thought that much of them that I would actually pay for education so that I could sell them the results of my newfound knowledge. Those classes had a direct impact on the knives they already had on order. Besides, the knifemaking continues to go on while you're at school. I forged 10 useful blades while there along with around $1,000.00 worth of damascus if you follow the $10.00/inch rule. In fact, it seemed to me that there were guys there for the intro class that just wanted to pay the tuition so they could use the facilities at the school to get some of their work done and come away with the maximum number of blades possible for when they got home. One fellow had around 20 blades after two weeks! I left with 10. And I have used those blades to fill orders when possible. And the damascus I forged while I was there is all but gone now too. It was a win/win situation for me.

I encourage you to attend at least the Basic Intro course at the ABS school if you seriously want to learn to forge. Of course, those courses are like Lays potato chips. You can't take just one! I wish you good fortune in your business in any case. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year Doc!
 
I have one of your pre-ABS School Bowies and it's a great knife.
I've followed your career and I've seen your growth as a maker. If it wasn't for some setbacks for me you'd be working on two knives for me right now.

I just want you to know I appreciate the investment you've made in your future.

Dr. Lathe, I hope you'll read Max's post in the spirit it was given.
 
I posted that with the best intentions Dr. Lathe. Absolutely no disrespect intended. Anyone that knows me knows that I'm a very direct person and sometimes may not come off quite like I mean it. I'm just very enthusiastic about this whole knifemaking thing and especially the forging part! I genuinely wish you the best and sincerely hope that you get the chance to attend the classes at the ABS school in Old Washington, Arkansas. In fact, if you get to attend I'd like to drive down there and meet you. I just live about 120 miles from the school. Good luck and best wishes Doc!
 
As I mentioned in my post, every maker and their needs are different.

>>>Closing your shop doors while learning how to do it better is an investment in your knifemaking future.<<<

I agree 100%......to a point :)

While I would, NO DOUBT learn TONS at the ABS school, I would consider it "learning how to do it TOTALLY differently" more so than "better" I don't want to start a forged/stock removal war but I have been doing OK with my stock removal knives so far! AND......I admit still having a long way to go as far as guarded models, subhilts and integrals. Now I hope the ABS guys take that in the right spirit :) Nothing impressed me more than the ABS group at the Blade Show last year. Being involved with that organization would be an honor.

The reason I mentioned hitting the lottery is because we are a single income family. I have been working full time with knives since being layed off from my machinist job in late Sept. The Dr.Lathe name was given to my by my machinist buddies because I could keep the old, half dead, CNC lathes up and running. I DONT have a Phd or a six figure income!! I will probably return to working a regular job in mid January. This will allow me to finish aquiring the rest of the equipment I need while still making knives after hours.

As time goes by, things will only get better for us. Child support for my oldest ends in January. Next January my mortgage is DONE :)
Once I'm in a better position to take that month, believe me, I WILL!! My wife will send my just so I'll SHUT UP about it :eek:

Phil,

YES, I DID!! :D

Neil
 
neil ~
i wasnt picking at the fact that you didnt specify what you meant by streamline ..
i just sometimes wonder where makers draw the line when it comes to the techniques and methods that they use..

here i can get a blade heat treated for about $5 - $10 .. which it Far lower than it would cost me to treat my own blades .. but i still do my own blades .. i guess i take it to the extreme .. i dont want anyone else to touch my blades when they are being made ..

but i am always interested where people figure on drawing the line .. it kind of works itself back into the whole "handmade" debate.
and where do makers think things are still handmade ..
just interested .. hope you didnt think i was picking on you.
:D

as for the ABS lessons you guys have been talking about.
MAN! .. i wish i was in the States for those.
but i Totally understand about your situation neil with regards to time out to take those classes.
my family of 3 is living on the life savings that we had built up while i try to make a real go at my blades ..
(i have little choice when it comes to employment .. but thats another post) ... but i wish i could just put things down and come and learn... ahh .. to Learn.
and learn it right the first time.

i have done a lot of my blade-knowledge simply from trial and error .. and its a slooooow process.
especially when i had NO idea what i was doing when i first went into it. :D
im hoping that some of my blades will actually sell soon and then i can get me a ticket to the ABS learning-spree

heres hoping dreams come true.

D.
 
As far as things being streamlined, I only meant my system of doing things. I built two of my belt grinders and I also heat treat ALL my own blades. About a year ago I did have a comercial heat treater run 6 A2 blanks for me but that was while I was having my 220V lines re-routed in my shop! The only high tech equipment I have, if you can call it that is my small milling machine and lathe. My next big investment will be an air conditioner before the HOT weather returns in March :) This is more to remove humidity so my materials stay the way they should but I will enjoy the comfort also!!

neil
 
What an absolutely wonderful thread. No silly Icons on this post. I am in AWE. Knife-Makers, I cannot even hammer ONE Nail into a piece of wood. I salute you. Your finished work bares your soul. I truly believe my closing one liner...................................MONEY is NEVER the true underlying issue with you Guys. God Bless......Ira
 
I'm sure that many people new to knives look at the price and try to divide by whatever # of hours the maker says he has into a knife and come up with an hourly rate.
What that fails to consider is everything else that has to be done to support making the knife.
Materials don't just arrive at a maker's shop on their own, nor to the hundreds of tools, bits, cutters and expendable materials either.
And, knives just don't jump into those shipping boxes with completed bills of sale, etc.
I wish they did, but, they don't. I spend at least 15 minutes packaging every knife I ship, and, at least that long making sure that it is perfect for the customer.
No one is paying a maker to answer phone calls, emails, etc that are required to make a sale.
Now-understand-I LOVE doing all that stuff. It comes with the territory. But, if I can make a knife in , say, 4 hours, I have at least 6 into it(or more) because of shipping, selling and shop related stuff.
And, it's the 20+ years of experience that lets me make a knife efficiently. I am always experimenting with new ways to get better results.
Corbet Sigman, one of the finest makers in the world, makes a great little dropped hunter. It's about $150-maybe less. And, it is FLAWLESS. He told me he can make several in a day. Good for him!!!
He spent probably 30 years learning to do that.

Any maker that is worth buying from is going to be working hard to develop techniques to make better knives in less time. The trick is to not sacrifice quality while doing so.

Most makers aren't getting rich off of knives. They're working long hours to make a decent living.

Stay Sharp,

RJ Martin
 
it takes me a while to make one. The main reason is I am at college and can only work on them over my breaks. If i get a nice long break, I can do a few blades in a few days sometimes. I can grind a blade in about 30 min, including profiling, etc to 220 grit. From there, I use vertical flat grinding on the contact wheel to clean it up, and hand sand up to around 1000 or 1500 grit. This takes a good amount of time. Handles, arent that bad for me, i profule on bandsaw and grinder, glue using a Plastic welder epoxy from Devcon, its waterproof, has 3500 PSI holding vs 2500 of their 2 ton, dries completely to work it in around 20 min, and is cream color. its made for plastics, fiberglass and metals, so its great for G10 handles :) Handles, i shape on the grinder, then clean by hand with files and sandpaper. HP handle finishes, like ironwood take longer. Another time factor is HT. If i do it myself, I can sometimes make 1 or 2 blades in a day, if I can time everything right. If they go out to Paul Bos, it takes a while to get them back and when I have a break coming up. Sheaths are a snap for me, kydex is a time saver, but i am also starting to work leather, which takes much longer.

Long story short, it depends on the knife, its complexity, and the abilities of the maker. Also, many makers have a waiting list or backlog, too. And then some make some stuff to sell, and don't take orders.
 
The knives I make, or more accurately, forge, in that short of time are usually gifts for visitors. Results from on the spot demo's for folks just wanting to see what this forging thing is all about. And I've made a great many of that type. They're good, useable knives, and great experience for me, but they come with the right price tag too. Free.
Click to expand...

YUP.
I have a few of max's 'demo' knives,and love every one of em...great knives at a great price.

I am by no means a maker,but have done some piddling around at it...everyone has said pretty much what i figured would be the truth.
 
This has definitely been one of my favorite threads. Seeing so many makers telling us their feelings about making knives has been fantastic. I check at least 4 or 5 times a day to see if there has been another post, I must really be enjoying myself. Thanks everyone.
 
First of all I would like to say I 'm sorry to Neil about the layoff.My wife and I were both layedoff in Oct.All that aside,I would pretty much agree with the other makers.Sometimes all the other aspects can take longer than making the knife.I try to make some exotic sheaths and these can hours and hours.I also work in batches of 10-12 at a time.Every maker has to find out how to make his shop work for him.The number of tools,the right type of tools,and even the shop layout can effect speed.Then if you can talk the Ol' Lady into doing all the other stuff,you can stay on knives.Dave:)
 
Very good posts guys..., and very honest! Few "customers" actually think about what goes into ~~>"selling"...the Custom knife!

For all the "bean-counters" that try to figure it out "by-the-hour".., trust me!!!!....whatever equation you come up with will never work for a great knifemaker anyway...

It's not about "Wages" ~~> for any of them....







"Hunters seek what they [WANT].., Seekers hunt what they [NEED]"
 
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