How long does it take to make a knife?

[Tom Lewis]

I have been asked that question more times than I can remember. I usually make knives four or five at a time, and did not have much of an idea how long it took to make one knife from start to finish. I decided to keep track of my time.
Speed is not anything I aim for. The old saying "Haste makes waste" is true.
I decided to make a simple 7" overall guardless knife out of CPM 154CM steel.
I actually made four knives and then divided my time by four to find out how long it took to make one.
From the time I scribed the pattern on the steel, cut it to length on a chop saw, ground the profile, drilled holes, tapered the tang, ground the bevels using 60 grit, 240 grit, 400 grit then hand sanded with 220 grit and 320 grit for the beginning of a satin finish was one hour for one knife.
I then sent the blades off to the heat treater.
I hand sanded the heat treated blade to a satin finish which took 30min for one blade.
It took 30 minutes to fit and epoxy the handle in place for one knife.
It took 30 minutes to grind and buff the handle to completion.
My time so far was two hours and 30 minutes.
I then made a sheath for the knife. That took 46 minutes.
My total time was three hours and 16 minutes for this one knife.
I was surprised. I would have thought it would have taken a lot longer.

 

[Rick Marchand]

I can forge, grind, heat treat, sand, handle, sheath and sharpen a knife in a day and a half. I've had to do that a few times but it sure does leave the shop in a mess! That is a simple knife and includes two, 2hr tempering cycles. It really is more of a "theoretical timeframe" because nothing ever happens that smoothly in my experience. Knives normally roll out of my shop 2-4 per week as many wait at different stages of completion. So, the actual time for a single knife from start to finish is about two weeks. My current leadtime is 8-12 months for a knife and 10-16 months for a sword-shaped-object... and sometimes even longer if I really like you

 

[Gody]

That sounds pretty efficient Tom. Sweet looking knife btw.

Brian

 

[Mitchell Knives]

That's faster than me.

 

[tryppyr]

It's a funny question, and people look at the problem in much different ways.

For example, most folks that are doing production runs don't factor in design time because that's already done... nothing to design. Likewise, some other factors like material selection and preparation are often left out because, again, that's done ahead of time.

And then there's the tendency to do "funny" math, like adding up the hours and then dividing them by the batch size. That's great if you're trying to determine how much to charge for a knife, but not so great at determining how much time each knife really took. I mean, if the tempering takes 4 hours to complete, saying it took only 1 hour because you tempered four knives is a bit misleading. The "funny" math makes sense for some processes (the ones you have to do one blade at a time, like grinding), but not others.

Another factor that adds variables is efficiency. For example, when you put a blade into the oven for HT, what do you do while it's in the oven? If twiddling your thumbs or staring at the blade, then the time is spent passively. If you spend that time shaping your handle or slotting the guard, it might reduce the overall time to make the knife.

 

[Patrice Lemée]

You are fast Tom and I agree, that's a good looking knife.

Me, on a knife, I probably spend 3.25 hours just on the shopvac alone.

 

[Salem Straub]

I have difficulty making what I consider to be a "professional" knife in less than 6-8 hours, not including the sheath. That's for a simple full tang knife with no guard. I think the most time consuming parts are the little details all over a knife, exact fit of the scale fronts to a dropped tang/ricasso junction, getting small errant scratches out of everything, rounding off what needs it, etc.

I have made them in 2 consecutive hours of the same day, with a wrapped handle or a handle without epoxy. That's largely for a quick demo class or just for fun when I have a visitor that wants to do knife stuff.

Greg makes good points about design time, and doing "funny" math. I try to be working on at least two at the same time as well, to be more efficient.

 

[Robert Carter]

Takes me a full 12 hour day to make 4 simple neck knives with sheaths.

Folders our a different story though. I've made simple tactical folders in 14-18 hours, depends on steel and finish. I've spent upwards of a week on a high end gents rocker-bar-auto for a customer. Some times they come together and sometimes the smallest things derail completion times.

 

[Tom Lewis]

The design time is something I didn't factor in. Also, the time spent deciding what kind of handle material to use wasn't factored in. I send my CPM 154CM blades to Paul Bos heat treating and didn't factor in the time to package them and take them to the post office.
There are other factors also, like the time it takes to order the steel and belts, and handle material, then opening the packages and putting things in their place. Also time spent cleaning up.
I'm sure there are other factors, but this gave me at least a rough idea how long it took to make that simple knife.

 

[Tom Lewis]

Sorry, double post.

 

[Robert Dark]

Yup, knifemaking is a whole lot of "Hurry-Up-And-Wait". Tempering times, Glue-Up times, and other "Wait" times. Sometimes its like watching paint dry.

Time management is the key...... It is also one of the most elusive and hard learned lessons out there.

 

[Salem Straub]

By the way, nice little knife, and good time, Tom!

 

[james terrio]

It depends on whether you're making knives kinda-sorta when-you-wanta because you're bored, or if you're in it to win it. Is knifemaking your hobby, or your career?

The "punchclock" model relates very closely to mine, in terms of hands-on actual labor, to "just make" a basic handmade knife. I can make a knife in an afternoon that will put anything on the department-store shelves to shame. Most of us can.

Our clients know it's not that easy. They demand more.

There's an awful lot that's just not accounted-for in that model, even for a standard design. Let's explore what actually goes on for a full-time maker, making lifetime knives.

Put all your spare cash in the knife-business account, so you can order the best steel/handle materials/bolts/epoxy/belts/sandpaper/leather/dye/thread etc... then, spend time on the phone/online and actually order them.

Decide (stubbornly) that you refuse to make the same mediocre crap that everyone else does. Spend hundreds of hours researching how to do better than the other guys. Alloy-selection... heat-treat... geometry, most of all.

Eat generic mac'n'cheese with a can of tuna mixed in, and pretend to love it while waiting for income to match outlay. Keep working. Hot sauce helps.

Inventory/keep track of/unbox/sort all these necessary materials. No one's going to do it for you.

Actual shop-time... grinding the blades. That's the easy part! Grind 'em so they cut better than anyone expected. Good enough is NOT good enough. Thin is in, and light is right.

HT, or send the blades off to HT. More money, more time. No way to cut corners here.

Wait for those blades to come back, while you juggle new orders and try to figure out lead-times... without getting in over your head on knives that are already ordered.

Build handles that are actually comfortable. Maintain faith that your vision will reach an audience. Eat more tuna-mac.

Machine-finish or hand-satin? Does "hand-satin" mean a rough 400-grit or a crisp 600? How you gonna set yourself apart from the pack?

Change the filters on your dust-collection system, vacuum the shop floor and take out the garbage.

Read and answer anywhere from zero to dozens of new voicemails/e-mails/PM's, daily, most of which result in no business at all. Some of them want your basic models... that's bread and butter :thumbup:. Some want some crazy thing you'll probably never make again, and they want it cheap. OK, you can't afford to turn down work. Let's rock.

Read and answer many e-mails/PM's from people that want to know, "Where the hell is my knife?" They don't give a hoot in hell if you got swamped or had a touch of the flu.

Skip dinner, and Sunday brunch, and Wednesday poker-night with the boys, and maybe even your kid's spring-concert rehearsal to stay in the shop and catch up on hand-sanding or glue-ups or packaging that one order that really needs to go out right now. Look to the future.

Spend an hour or two every single day just to keep your e-mails/PM's/address book/day planner/shipping schedule up to date.


Consider all that before you ask, "how long does it take to make a knife?".