How long does it take YOU to reprofile to 30 degrees?

[nevermind35]

I've been reprofiling pretty much all of my knives as I buy them lately to 30 degrees and I'm curious to know how long it honestly takes everyone to do this. Traditionally I use a sharpmaker wrapped in wet/dry 220 grit sandpaper for the reprofiling. I've got a pretty good system now where I use those tiny rubberbands used for braces and hold the wet/dry on the rods with one of those bands on the top and one on the bottom. I pre cut a few sets of wet/dry out to size so I can quickly change them out when they wear out however it's still taking me a LONG time to do this. It all depends on the steel type, blade stock thickness and the angle of the edge before I start my reprofiling job but even the thin blades take a long time. Its becoming not so fun anymore as it's almost a full time job. Every knife I buy needs it and in between my daily users need it every once in a while when the micro bevel gets too large.

It usually takes me about 8-10 hours of pure sharpening (not in one sitting) to get a nice even 30 degree edge with a nice polish on it and I'm wondering if there is something I can do or buy to make this a faster job. I know a belt sander would make quick work of it but I don't want to go with powered machinery because I really don't have the space for it and I've noticed in my testing of edges that the heat generated by the belt sander can really screw up the edge rettention until I touch up the edge once or twice.

How about the Edge Pro Apex or Dia-fold? How long does it take you guys who use either of these on average to put a good 30 degree edge on your knives? My last reprofiling job I used my Lansky clamp system and bought an extra course diamond stone for it and it seemed to take a lot of metal off at first and I thought that I finally found the answer. However after taking off the the first corner of the bevel (which always goes fast) I found that it was taking just as long. It took me about 8 hours with the lansky however thats still a lot of time after working all day full time.

So my question is how long does it take you to reprofile your knives to 30 degrees and what do you recommend to speed things up? Thanks.

 

[Any Cal.]

I reprofiled an Izula with the Magna-guide and it went really quick. Maybe 20 minutes total time...though I did leave a micro-bevel that is easily visible. That was with the coarse/blue as the heavy hitter.

Other than that, I use the 6x2" black XC diamond, which works quickly on smaller blades. It made short work of a 440C Griptilian, I spent maybe 30-40 minutes going through the grits and stropping on a reprofile and sharpening for a friend. It wasn't insanely sharp, but better than a factory edge.

ETA, if I was extremely picky, it would probably take me considerably longer, but I tend to work in the 90% range, which probably saves a lot of time on user knives, though it limits how extreme my edge will get, I imagine.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

I use a Lansky to reprofile, for the most part. I was operating at somewhat of a 'handicap' with only 1 medium diamond Lansky hone to supplement my standard (non-diamond) set. With that in mind, all knives I've done so far have taken anywhere from 2-3 hours up to about 5 or 6 hours (D2 or S30V). The initial setup in the clamp is all-important, and it's worth investing some time to make sure it's set up right (no slippage or other movement in the clamp). The first hone in the sequence is key, and probably accounts for at least half of the total sharpening time. That's the one that should produce the initial burr. After that, it's all about removing the burr and polishing the bevel. If each hone in the sequence is utilized properly and fully (to remove & refine the grind marks from the previous hone), each subsequent step will go much quicker. The fine/xtra-fine ceramic hones will produce the 'mirror' polish, and in fairly short order, if the previous hones have completed their part. With a Coarse/XC diamond hone to start (if I'd actually had one), I'm sure I could've gotten done sooner.

I do have a GATCO diamond set also. I haven't used it as much (yet), simply because I can get a higher polish with the Fine/Xtra-fine hones in my Lansky set. Otherwise, the GATCO will also produce (literally) hair-whittling edges, and quicker than my Lansky. They're just not quite as shiny after the final honing step. But, I'm finding that I can remedy that with stropping, using green compound on leather.

I don't fret too much over spending several hours in doing this. If that time is used wisely & patiently, the results are well worth it.

 

[nevermind35]

And what angle did you reprofile those to Any Cal?

By the way the 8-10 hours I mentioned in my OP is for reprofiling S30V and greater as far as edge retention goes. I can do my thing a lot faster on steels such as 154 cm, 440c, 1095, 0-1...

Thanks for the insight Obsessed. I agree that definately most of the time taken is with the coursest stone to set the bevel. So another question: How much pressure do you use. I have always heard that you should basically just use the weight of the knife, and thats what I do whether its grinding on the course stones, honing on fine stones or stropping.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

And what angle did you reprofile those to?

By the way the 8-10 hours I mentioned in my OP is for reprofiling S30V and greater as far as edge retention goes. I can do my thing a lot faster on steels such as 154 cm, 440c, 1095, 0-1...

For all but the smallest (narrow) blades, I've consistently used the lowest setting on the clamp (marked '17' on my Lansky). I like very acute edges on my knives. The marked settings on the clamps are essentially meaningless in terms of actual angle measurements. They're entirely dependant on clamp positioning and blade dimensions. But if I had to guess, I'd bet almost all of mine are probably 15 per side or less (much less in some cases). Long story short, I remove a LOT of metal on each bevel I've reprofiled.

With very small blades (like my Queen Country Cousin soddies in D2), I've used the 2nd setting from the bottom on the clamp. Can't use the lowest, because the end of the clamp gets in the way.

Like you mentioned, the times spent are heavily dependant on steel type. Carbon/1095, Case Tru-Sharp, 420HC have been some of the 'quicker' ones.

 

[ChapmanPreferred]

There are very few knives that I set up at 30 degrees as soon as I receive them. The Last knife I remember setting up for 30 degree edge bevel was a Spyderco Military with CPM S90V blade steel. It took, with the diamond rods on the Sharpmaker, about two hours if I remember correctly. I thought that was a long time, but is nothing compared to 8-10 hours. You are a machine nevermind35!

 

[Bill DeShivs]

It takes me about 30 seconds on my 2" X 72" Hardcore grinder.

 

[KennyB]

Sounds about right to me, really, and I use a Norton 220 waterstone for profiling. I never expect to be done re profiling in under two hours and usually set aside four. On quite a few tougher jobs though it's taken 8 or more. That was when reprofiling my Kulgera in S30V to 30*, which took about six hours--to be fair I had a clamp though. My Buck 119 in 440HC took about the same time, and just recentley I spent probably more than 12 hours reprofiling a 12 degree inclusive angle on my Case Trapper's spey blade ( only to give up and just put on a 23 degree microbevel at the end ).

If you really want to remove metal faster, you could try some handfiles. They're great at stock removal and you won't have to worry as much about heat issues.

Personally I just use patience, and if I'm feeling kind of tired doing the grinding, I just take a break since I know it's going to take a while anyway. At least that way I stay "fresh" and I'm not rushing anything.

I feel that V bevels are really just time consumers. Nearly ever profile job I've done could be finished in less than half the time if I would put on a microbevel, and I've done many convex grinds very quickly that way as well. To get the actual perfect bevels on a V grind all the way from edge to shoulder just takes more work.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

I feel that V bevels are really just time consumers. Nearly ever profile job I've done could be finished in less than half the time if I would put on a microbevel, and I've done many convex grinds very quickly that way as well. To get the actual perfect bevels on a V grind all the way from edge to shoulder just takes more work.

My take on it is, I only reprofile ONCE, to a bevel angle that's easy to maintain by stropping (mostly), and some occasional light passes on a ceramic stone freehand. Once a decent bevel is in place, maintenance becomes a lot easier afterwards. That's why I'm willing to take a few hours up front, to set it up right. Once it's done, it's done.

 

[Any Cal.]

It looks like the Izula was 17* per side, with a microbevel that was .004 wide...measured using a dial caliper. .026 thick at the edge, and a .042 long bevel.

ETA, I don't know how much the micro bevel changed the actual angle, I guess it would be very slightly less, but not much.

I don't have the Griptillian now, so I can't measure it, but it was probably about 20* per side.

 

[Any Cal.]

I have an S30V Benchmade that is at 12* per side, and that took just a second. I had a knife shop hit it on the grinder, then finished it on my own. Cost me $2.

 

[KennyB]

My take on it is, I only reprofile ONCE, to a bevel angle that's easy to maintain by stropping (mostly), and some occasional light passes on a ceramic stone freehand. Once a decent bevel is in place, maintenance becomes a lot easier afterwards. That's why I'm willing to take a few hours up front, to set it up right. Once it's done, it's done.

Well, I try to, but I'm kind of fickle and so if I try a bevel that has great retention, I'll profile to something more acute to see how that does.

Anyway, as far as I'm concerned, it just takes however long it takes. I get a burr I can catch with my thumbnail up the entirety of the edge on both sides before moving on, because really this saves me time when touching up. I only have to do maybe five passes on my fine stone to raise a burr up on one side, so it's not so much like wasting time as investing it into another portion of the sharpening. I think you commented on this earlier.

That's if I'm trying to do a perfect V bevel though. If I just want a microbevel, it might take me 30-60 minutes to get it to the point where I have a reasonable sized microbevel. If I want to go convex, it might take me even less time as I just gradually angle it up until it grinds off the edge, and then round off the shoulders.

In any case, profiling after having done it once takes a lot less time since the edge is already almost there. I had my Kulgera in S30V at about 30* inclusive and it was much easier to profile it down to 20* inclusive versus profiling to the 30* from the stock edge. So in some ways, once you've put in the work once, you don't really need to work that hard again.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

Thanks for the insight Obsessed. I agree that definately most of the time taken is with the coursest stone to set the bevel. So another question: How much pressure do you use. I have always heard that you should basically just use the weight of the knife, and thats what I do whether its grinding on the course stones, honing on fine stones or stropping.

With each knife I've done, I've become more and more convinced that lighter will always be better. If the particular stone I'm using isn't getting it done, I don't 'press harder' (anymore). I find a coarser grit that will do the work for me, using light pressure. You mentioned using the weight of the knife, for me it's a bit 'reversed', in the sense that my knife is being held in the clamp (which itself is held in a hobby vise on my benchtop). So, it's more an issue of using the weight of the hone, plus only enough finger pressure to make sure the hone stays flush in contact with the edge, without bouncing or skipping. Just enough pressure, and at a slow enough pace, to maintain full control. I hold the hone with the 'pads' at the tips of my fingers. That allows me to maintain good 'feel' through my fingertips. If gripped too tightly, that sense of 'feel' is diminished. The grip is light enough that if I were to 'lean into it' much at all, the tendency would be for me to lose my grip on it.

The other big advantage to using lighter pressure is, it's much easier on the hands & fingers. If my hands are getting achy & sore, it makes me re-think how much pressure I'm using, and adjust accordingly.

And I do agree, whether you're honing or stropping, lighter pressure is always best.

 

[THG]

Hours and hours. As a matter of fact, I'm doing one right now. I don't know if it's exactly 30°, but it's around there. I'm on ZDP-189 steel, and I just passed 3 hours. I'm almost done (the bevels are at the edge for most of the blade.) I just have to fix the imperfections of the bevels from the factory sharpening. (Spyderco sucks at sharpening :thumbdn

 

[richard j]

what bill said but with the wheels

 

[David Martin]

Yes, my belt grinder can knock off a lot of metal quickly without worries of the blades temper . Then just take it down to what grit you want . On my stones I've rebeveled to
15* using a Norton coarse crystolon 100 grit on the 2.5X 11.5" stone and a clamp guide .
This took about one hour grinding down a thick bladed Buck 119 then on to one other stone a 300 grit for more burr removal and strop to finish . About 1.5 hrs. total . This gives a great edge . DM

 

[nevermind35]

Ok well so far it seems like my technique is ok and the time taken is about right. I've been sharpening probably 3 times a week for the last year or so since I started really getting into knives and I'm just now starting to get confident in my edges. Its tough work for sure.

Also when I say it takes 8+ hours for a full reprofiling job I am including everything until my edge is completely polished and stropped. I use 220 grit until I have a straight even bevel on each side and they meet in the middle and then I'll move up to 400. I'll use 400 until all the scratch marks from the previous grit are gone and it has a uniform scratch pattern. I'll then move up to 600 grit utilizing the same technique, then 800, then 1000, then 2000. At that point its basically a mirror finish but I'll throw it on the strop for a bit to get it a bit more polished and at that point, if all is well, the time stops.

 

[nevermind35]

what bill said but with the wheels

I would really be curious to examine an edge from hand sharpening through all the grits and stropping next to an edge straight off of the paper wheels. I wonder what the performance of each would be like and which would cut better and last longer. It just seems too easy to be able to throw it on the wheels for a few minutes when hand sharpeners slave over the stones for days.

One thing about sharpening by hand is the satisfaction one gets by finally reaching a polished edge that can tree top hairs. Its a hell of a lot of work but you're right "Obsessed" it really does pay off with the performance increase you get with the more acute angle and the ease of sharpening afterward.

 

[Jason B.]

You can get veryyy large norton Sic stones for about 40 dollars, the larger stone will allow you to take longer strokes and remove more metal faster. Probably take a hour or two out of your sharpening.

How long?
If I use my set of 6 DMT plates from XXC to EEF on a spyderco military for example, it takes about 10-20 minutes to go from factory to fabulous and even less time if I use the aligner clamp.

The game changes though if I am going for a "perfect" edge, slower strokes and more breaks are taken to maintain more accurate grinding and polishing. This is when it takes me hours.

Using sandpaper is your grinding problem, it work but is very slow on steels like S30V and only get slower as the steel becomes harder/more wear resistant.

 

[HeavyHanded]

I just went down to Home Depot and picked up a tile rubbing stone for 8 bucks. The 60 grit side will reprofile a blade in ten minutes or less. Just brush off the stone every pass or two as it releases a lot of grit when being used heavily.