How Long is Too Long For a Bushcraft?

redsquid2

redsquid2

Free-Range Cheese Baby
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
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By way of introduction, I am an amateur knifemaker: been doing knives sporadically since the late 1980's, and have made about 15 so far. I have been a backpacker and canoer since the 70's. However, I am not an expert on bushcrafting. From the video demos I have seen, and a few posts here, I get the impression that bushcrafting focuses on surviving with a few basic tools, especially your knife; using it to start a fire and keep it going, to build a shelter, to make a snare for small game. So, the bushcrafter is supposed to be super-versatile.

I have never made a bushcrafter, but when I take pencil to paper, and start working up a design, I always want it to be about 4.75 -5.00". I also want it to be stout, like .156" thick. Is that too long and stout? Most bushcrafters I've seen are about 4". I think it would be easier to split some kindling with more length.

What do you all think?

Thanks,

--Andy/redsquid2
 
Hi Andy,
For most, a bushcrafting knife in contrast with a survival knife, is not a do-it-all tool. IMHO first and foremost it has to be supremely comfortable and nimble in the hand, in various grips for prolonged use. Second it needs to be easily portable and that's why most that you see are maxed out in the 4" range (as a rule, in order to sincerely bushcraft one must carry knife, small axe, crooked knife, another crooked knife, saw, a kuksa, a pot, a wool blanket and a canvas ruck with brass and leather hardware to carry all that stuff; so weight savings is a must :D . Thirdly, it's intended use as you said is primarily to cut and carve fibrous material, be it cord, grass, or wood, and secondarily for meat and skin. I don't think it needs to be that thick unless you're doing a FFG. 0.125 is plenty strong. But if you do go that thick, you need a relatively acute edge profile for ease and bite. You also have to find a happy medium as far as the point goes for a combination of strength and agility in tight spots. Just one man's opinion but I hope it helps.
 
IMO, 5" is approaching too long, but it would still work for me. The RatManDu is about 5" blade length, IIRC, and folks love them for bushcraft. The Fallkniven S1 is another that I see a lot of in that range. But, once you reach 5", you start getting into "survival knife" territory, and many makers like to bump up the thickness (think ESEE-5, and Becker BK-2), and that would not be very useful for many traditional carving tasks associated with "bushcraft". I agree, 5" blade length would make for easier wood-processing, if you're talking about a one-knife scenario. But 4" blades are easier to handle for more precise tasks (like the aforementioned carving). Which is why I bring a 4" knife, and a machete.

ETA: I started typing before Marcelo posted. If I had known, I would have saved my time and effort. He captured my points better than I could.
 
Will your knife be scandi ground or convex/flat ground? To me this makes the biggest difference on how thick I want the knife. As a rule I won't choose a scandi over 3/32" thick and a little thinner like on the mora companion is ideal. On a flat or convex grind 1/8" is about what I look at but 5/32" thick is good too. You'd be surprised at how thin you can go on a properly HT'd knife and still not have it fail. Too many of us have beaten mora's like a red headed step child for me to think that a 3/16" knife is necessary for anything.

From my experience, most of the customs I've had have suffered from 1 or more of the following;

1)The maker uses too thick a stock. A 3/16" thick scandi is a waste of steel IMO.

2)They grind the edges too thick. Look at some of the makers who've been at this for a while. You don't see them doing thick grinds like on Busse-kin, ESEE, Becker etc.(This is also why you see a lot of threads of members reprofling edges. The Becker crew even has a nickname for it.)

3)They leave the handles too square. A brick handle makes the knife a POS even if every other thing on it is perfect. I've lost 2 customs from prominent makers for this specific reason.

As for length. Most will prefer a 4 inch blade but to me that's kind of a dead area. I find medium belt knives to be of very little use. I tend to grab either a necker like the Izula 2 or something with a 5-7 inch blade.
 
Most of the "bushcraft" knife styles all trace some roots back to the Mears Woodlore knife. I think it's a great pattern and I like seeing all of the various interpretations that share some things in common with that. You may want to check it out for some ideas. Though I do think that 5/32" is the thickest that a bushcraft knife needs to be as well.
 
Shotgun said:
Will your knife be scandi ground or convex/flat ground? To me this makes the biggest difference on how thick I want the knife. As a rule I won't choose a scandi over 3/32" thick and a little thinner like on the mora companion is ideal. On a flat or convex grind 1/8" is about what I look at but 5/32" thick is good too. You'd be surprised at how thin you can go on a properly HT'd knife and still not have it fail. Too many of us have beaten mora's like a red headed step child for me to think that a 3/16" knife is necessary for anything.

From my experience, most of the customs I've had have suffered from 1 or more of the following;

1)The maker uses too thick a stock. A 3/16" thick scandi is a waste of steel IMO.

2)They grind the edges too thick. Look at some of the makers who've been at this for a while. You don't see them doing thick grinds like on Busse-kin, ESEE, Becker etc.(This is also why you see a lot of threads of members reprofling edges. The Becker crew even has a nickname for it.)

3)They leave the handles too square. A brick handle makes the knife a POS even if every other thing on it is perfect. I've lost 2 customs from prominent makers for this specific reason.

As for length. Most will prefer a 4 inch blade but to me that's kind of a dead area. I find medium belt knives to be of very little use. I tend to grab either a necker like the Izula 2 or something with a 5-7 inch blade.
Click to expand...

Thanks for all that information. On my backpacking trips, I find myself carrying smaller and smaller knives. No need for much survival gear, because I go with groups of 6 -12 people. My favorite knife for these trips has been a custom handle Helle Fjording. I bought the blade and made the handle. It was super comfy and lightweight, and the blade was just 2.75", a tad longer than the Izula II.
 
Shotgun said:
Will your knife be scandi ground or convex/flat ground?
Click to expand...

Probably flat ground. I don't have a belt grinder, and I think you need a belt grinder for making a scandi. I just have files, and a sanding block and sandpaper.

Now, when it comes to putting the edge on my knives, I start with 120 grit on a granite slab, then 220 grit, then the course side of the India stone, then the fine side of the India stone, then I lay 600 grit sandpaper on top of some 8-9 oz. leather, and strop. After that, I use a leather strop with green compound. I guess that creates a convex microbevel.
 
I personally like my outdoors knives around 4-1/2" to 4-3/4" long. I can get by with shorter, but sometimes a little extra length is handy. It also allows for a good combination of straight edge and belly in one knife, also handy. What I don't like is blades that are too thick. My modified Old Hick's are about 1/8" and I find that to be just fine. I used to be in the thick blade camp, but no more.
 
As bushcraft is about skills > tools there's technically not a knife too large for bushcraft. Therefore a man of high skill may easily use a 28" machete for bushcraft. But for most people (if the market says anything about it) is that 6" is about the top of the range and the peak of the bell curve is around the 4.5" mark.
 
I have 3 Bushcraft Knives and they are between 5" & 5 1/2" long and a thick Blade that will handle anything I want it to including slicing and 3/16" fills the job just right and all 3 are Custom's and made to my spec's.!* I spent 3 months in the Everglades and never had a problem that I could not handle with this kind of Bushcrafter when it came to cutting anything.**
 
IMO bushcraft is not about what you use but how you use it. Or camping with all the comforts and not all the gear. ( Not that I don't like gear) For me about 4.5" blade not more then 5/32 thick flat grind is about right.
Make what you would want to use on a extended camp. OR use the features you like from several other knives it all good as long as you use O1 steel. with out o1 it's not bushcraft.:p
 
Blue Sky said:
I personally like my outdoors knives around 4-1/2" to 4-3/4" long. I can get by with shorter, but sometimes a little extra length is handy. It also allows for a good combination of straight edge and belly in one knife, also handy. What I don't like is blades that are too thick. My modified Old Hick's are about 1/8" and I find that to be just fine. I used to be in the thick blade camp, but no more.
Click to expand...

Which models?

Links to pictures?
 
Here are a few of my modified OH's. All started out as 6"-8" butchers except the top one in the second pic, that was an 8" slicer.

Kitchen duty (the one in the middle is generally my go-to, my wife likes that one too):


Outdoors (the top two are in the 4-1/2 to 4-3/4" range, the bottom one is mostly for fun):


Outdoors again, but currently doing fireplace duty (a favorite):


In-works. The second is a sheepfoot being modded a second time to a small neck knife:


These things grow on you, it changes your perspective on what a knife needs to be to get the job done.
 
Blue Sky said:
Here are a few of my modified OH's. All started out as 6"-8" butchers except the top one in the second pic, that was an 8" slicer.

Kitchen duty (the one in the middle is generally my go-to, my wife likes that one too):


Outdoors (the top two are in the 4-1/2 to 4-3/4" range, the bottom one is mostly for fun):


Outdoors again, but currently doing fireplace duty (a favorite):


In-works. The second is a sheepfoot being modded a second time to a small neck knife:


These things grow on you, it changes your perspective on what a knife needs to be to get the job done.
Click to expand...

Blue Sky:

Very interesting. I have never carried a Kephart knife, but it looks like you have a few. Seems like a logical choice for a strong point, and the ability to bore.

I notice the O.H.'s don't have a guard, and they have simple shaping on the handles. Do you ever find that these aspects cause problems?

Thanks to everyone for your input. A wide range of experience.
 
LG&M said:
all good as long as you use O1 steel. with out o1 it's not bushcraft.:p
Click to expand...

Good to know. I have made knives out of 440C, 154CM, CPM154, A2, files, industrial hacksaws, and recently O1. I think O1 is the easiest steel I have worked with so far, in terms of cutting it, filing it, etc. I also like the way it sands. I get a finish that I like with less work.
 
redsquid2 said:
I notice the O.H.'s don't have a guard, and they have simple shaping on the handles. Do you ever find that these aspects cause problems?
Click to expand...

I find the plain handles a plus actually. When you need to make a lot of cuts in tough materials, any kind of bumps, grooves or whatever are where the hot spots start first. I wouldn't mind some sort of guard, on some of them at least, but since I'm only modifying what already exists, there are some limitations.
 
4-5 inch blade, 1/8 thick, convex or scandi in O1/1095. Also no crazy finger guards or handle grooves or whatever that might limit the uses. Best to be good at multiple grips rather than feeling perfect for just one. The simpler the better. On the flip side I kinda dislike the term "bushcraft" knife. Whatever knife I actually have on hand in the woods is a "bushcraft" knife. People don't like to hear this but we don't always have the perfect knife for a particular job. Sometimes we have the knife or kit that's on hand. For me the most important aspects are:

1. Can I easily sharpen it both at home and in the field but at the same time still hold an edge reasonably well?

2. Is it general purpose enough or a tool designed for a specific use? I shy away for super specific tools whenever possible but will roll with whatever circumstance dictates.

3. Is it comfortable to use but still be safe when I am tired, cold etc.

Naturally if those ducks are in a row I might choose to be picky. I want X steel, Y grind with Z handle material etc etc etc. I have also purchased knives based on criteria which when it comes right down to it for me anyways that was really more hobby related than actual need. But that's part of the fun. :)
 
I find no benefit for a length longer than 4.5"

I love the bark river aurora but its blade is longer than I think is necessary...
 
My bushcrafter is a Bark River Aurora in 3v. It's ideal for me but I'm a knuckle dragger. It might be too big for the little people.
 
3.75" - 4.5" is plenty, imo.

But I do a fair bit of what I need to do with a 2-3/4" blade.
 
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