Yeah, we tried the kayak thing, but I never really liked them as much as a canoe. Just more versatile and more options with the open boat. Easier to load and then reach some item out on the river or bay. Dog fits the canoe better as well.
Carl.
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How many canoeists do we have here?
- Thread starter jackknife
- Start date
Yeah, we tried the kayak thing, but I never really liked them as much as a canoe. Just more versatile and more options with the open boat. Easier to load and then reach some item out on the river or bay. Dog fits the canoe better as well.
Carl.
I'll also mention that, regardless of the fact that they were inexpensive when new and ignored by canoe snobs and magazines, the Coleman Marine canoes are the schnitz. I put one through many years of torture and it held up quite well. No, they aren't as rigid as most composits, and aren't as maneuverable as most later designs, but they are built like tanks. The "Ram-X" crosslinked polyethelyne hull is floppy until the aluminum keelson, gunnels and internal supports are added. They still drive like a UPS truck, but are nearly idiot-proof. And they have wide beams for stability and a keel for tracking.]
Ya left out one thing, Codger. The hernia they give you when you try to lift them onto a high roof of an SUV!
Carl.
Codger_64
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87# gives you a hernia? I had a safari rack on top of a CJ-7 and had no problems loading alone (back in the day). Yeah, they were heavy, I'll give you that. If money is no object, it is hard to beat a Bell for superior design and light weight composits (or any of the better wood and canvas canoes). Most beginners and occasional users would not be well served by such an investment. My Old Town is likewise near the bottom of price point for a new canoe (MSRP $800) and near the top of weight at 82#, but even an old Codger can wrangle it.
eisman
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One thing I learned with the old Colemans was that a little wax made a big difference. Lately I've seen several "custom" built canoes (wood/glass mostly) that were not smooth on the outside. Even the ripple from not filling in the glass sheeting creates drag. I tried to explain that to one guy at a local craft show (he wanted $2500 for his stuff) and got told I didn't know what I was talking about. Told him I race him across any lake he wanted to find if he used that boat. I'm not fast, but I'm not going to do any extra work paddling that could be saved in construction. Boats should be smooth.
I hate Aluminum canoes. All it takes is one day on the Colorado in summer and you'll wish you never saw the thing; plus they're loud. I always liked strippers, but rocks are hard on them. It's important to know what works best where you're going.
One of these days I'm going to build one of those lightweight strippers using thin plywood veneer. Been thinking about a design using foamcore too. I'd love to get a 15' that weighed around 45 lbs.
Anyone ever set up a sail rig?
I hate Aluminum canoes. All it takes is one day on the Colorado in summer and you'll wish you never saw the thing; plus they're loud. I always liked strippers, but rocks are hard on them. It's important to know what works best where you're going.
One of these days I'm going to build one of those lightweight strippers using thin plywood veneer. Been thinking about a design using foamcore too. I'd love to get a 15' that weighed around 45 lbs.
Anyone ever set up a sail rig?
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Codger_64
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IMHO, aluminum canoes are a love/hate thing. They evolved from the need to use materials and molds/dies left over from WWII aircraft construction. The first canoes I used were, of course aluminum, fleet canoes at a military academy in Chattanooga. I remember being in one several years later on July 20th, 1969 (for those who remember that date). They were loud and hot. But very sturdy. Still later, I bought a used one and beat that thing without mercy. I retired it after several years with broken ribs, missing rivets and stress fractures. I replaced it with a glass canoe that I wore out in no time. Then I rented Blue Holes (Sunburst, I think) until I bought the Coleman. A lot of liveries around here stock the heavier guage aluminum canoes. They swear that they last longer than the plastic ones on our rocky streams with novice paddlers. I prefer the plastics for several reasons like not sticking to rocks, coolness in the sun and quietness, but wouldn't mind picking up one as a loaner for friends.
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Old Town Pack Canoe
12ft royalex
33 lbs!
I think I paid $400 for my used one on craigslist. It was a steep price for a used canoe, but these things get snatched up so quickly it was no wonder. Since then, I haven't thought twice about the price. It has been an essential piece for adventures and fun trips, and I really like the durability aspect of it as well.
Also have a 2 person kevlar that i like.
12ft royalex
33 lbs!
I think I paid $400 for my used one on craigslist. It was a steep price for a used canoe, but these things get snatched up so quickly it was no wonder. Since then, I haven't thought twice about the price. It has been an essential piece for adventures and fun trips, and I really like the durability aspect of it as well.
Also have a 2 person kevlar that i like.
Well, count me in. I did a two-decade hiatus from canoeing and decided it was time to get back into it. Those trips with the scouts as a kid were some fond memories, but I wanted something better than those battle-tanks we were paddling back then. Yea, the aluminum canoes can take a beating, but newer technology and capabilities means we can now have lighter, more maneuverable boats!
After a long search, with countless hours on the net researching different makes and models, I now have a wonderful Bell Morningstar that I absolutely love. Not too heavy, this thing can carry 500# and still be rather nimble. Excellent secondary stability, and I can actually turn it on a dime!
The only downside is that I can't seem to find anyone that wants to do a river trip. Without the caravan capacity, I'm stuck with the local lakes... which isn't too bad when you consider the wonderful scenery! Can't wait til my knee heals up so I can tolerat sitting for longer periods. Maybe next fall will see me doing more paddling.
After a long search, with countless hours on the net researching different makes and models, I now have a wonderful Bell Morningstar that I absolutely love. Not too heavy, this thing can carry 500# and still be rather nimble. Excellent secondary stability, and I can actually turn it on a dime!
The only downside is that I can't seem to find anyone that wants to do a river trip. Without the caravan capacity, I'm stuck with the local lakes... which isn't too bad when you consider the wonderful scenery! Can't wait til my knee heals up so I can tolerat sitting for longer periods. Maybe next fall will see me doing more paddling.
Codger_64
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If by "caravan capacity", you mean self shuttle on rivers, I get around that by using a livery's shuttle. It costs me about $20 to have them load me and Jake, my canoe and gear into their shuttle van, then drive me to my desired put-in on the river. They would also shuttle just my vehicle from the put in to my take-out for the same price.
But lake paddling is good too. A lake is where I learned the basics. I've just gotten spoiled to the reduced paddling effort, lesser wind and changing scenery of small rivers. Not to mention the feeling of semi-seclusion. Well, at least when it isn't peak season and the rivers are filled with novices of every ilk. But even then there is entertainment factor. And the chance to show one or two a basic skill that helps them move downriver a bit better.
I won't pretend to have the expertise and grace of style of many here like Mewolf, but I am an old paddle-Codger and can't remember the last time I took an accidental swim. On one particularly warm and crowded weekend last summer, every small hazard was followed by a small group of floaters recovering gear and canoes. My scurvy crew consisted of my service dog, my 20 y.o. daughter and her 2 y.o. daughter. Without fail we were hailed and warned that there was no way around the obsticle, yet also without fail, we made it through in fine style with just a few well timed sweeps, draws and backstrokes. A few of them might have learned something by example. Reading moving water is a skill learned and I never knew how to make a person understand it other than to show them. My daughter was four when I started teaching her and she makes an excellent bowman.
But lake paddling is good too. A lake is where I learned the basics. I've just gotten spoiled to the reduced paddling effort, lesser wind and changing scenery of small rivers. Not to mention the feeling of semi-seclusion. Well, at least when it isn't peak season and the rivers are filled with novices of every ilk. But even then there is entertainment factor. And the chance to show one or two a basic skill that helps them move downriver a bit better.
I won't pretend to have the expertise and grace of style of many here like Mewolf, but I am an old paddle-Codger and can't remember the last time I took an accidental swim. On one particularly warm and crowded weekend last summer, every small hazard was followed by a small group of floaters recovering gear and canoes. My scurvy crew consisted of my service dog, my 20 y.o. daughter and her 2 y.o. daughter. Without fail we were hailed and warned that there was no way around the obsticle, yet also without fail, we made it through in fine style with just a few well timed sweeps, draws and backstrokes. A few of them might have learned something by example. Reading moving water is a skill learned and I never knew how to make a person understand it other than to show them. My daughter was four when I started teaching her and she makes an excellent bowman.
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Codger you made me smile at the "accidental swim". We went for a quick trip last year and she wanted to explore something on shore. My back was hurting so I stayed in the canoe and after she got out I leaned back to stretch my back and splash-down!
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VaunT,
I am willing for some trips, I have been wanting to explore the Pee Dee system. If you want to get together some time let me know. Chris
I am willing for some trips, I have been wanting to explore the Pee Dee system. If you want to get together some time let me know. Chris
My very first canoe was a Gruman aluminum. This was too many decades ago to admit to, but the ABS canoes were not around just then. I will admit the Gruman stood up to a lot of heavy use. Then I paddled one of those new fangled plastic canoes, and I was sold. It was the quiet that sold me. I ended up with a OLd Town Tripper for a while, thenit got sold off for an OLd Town Camper. The camper got used for a bunch of years. Even stuck an electric trolling motor on it for those lazy days. Now, Karen and I want the light weight stuff in our white dwarf stage of life, so that's how we ended up with the kevlar Wenonah kingfisher. At 38 pounds, it's easy to lift up to the car roof, let alone carry around the back of the house.
The only problem is, it feels a little too light. I feel like I'm in a fragile craft, although the guys at the canoe place say the kevlar is a strong boat. I've never had a canoe this light before, and it's a little weird. But it sure does paddle nice. It seems more rigid than the OLd Town royalex boats, and tracks very strait. Very sharp lines on the hull.
Carl.
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I have been thinking about kevlar but I am worried about beating it up too much, I love royalex, but dang, a 16 ft 38# boat sure sounds great.
Carl, how is the kevlar holding up and how long have you had it? Chris
Carl, how is the kevlar holding up and how long have you had it? Chris
Codger_64
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I could regale you with some stories of epic spills from back in the day. But I'll spare you the details.
Carl, I would absolutely love to have a lightweight state of the art composit canoe. I do have a bit of jelousy for those who do. In fact, if I had my way, I would own a vertitible fleet of canoes including a stripper and a wood and canvas Petersborough, as well as a traditional Louisianna pirough. Some time back I had to force myself to quit reading the Boundry Waters Journal. Some dreams are far better kept as dreams unfulfilled. I do still hope to hook up with Mewolf or another forumite for a trip down my local Buffalo river. In all my years afloat, other than my daughter, it has been a rare event to have a canoing partner who wasn't a novice. But there is a different kind of joy even in that, teaching someone a recreational skill that they can keep and build on the rest of their life if there is sufficient interest.
What I like about canoes are that they can go where boats cannot go yet carry the same cargo capacity as a boat. I have an cedar strip canoe that is about 60 years old and a 21 year old Old Towne canoe that I bought in Minneapolis. I saved the cedar strip canoe from going to the dump back in 1981 and pulled off the old canvas and put a layer of fiberglass on it and its still good to go.
I practically lived in a canoe in my younger years, fishing, camping and even had (have) a full blown car stereo system for it that I also use as a portable audio system for other uses. Went on many long canoe trips with it, and endless camping trips. Given the cargo capacity of the 17.5 footlong Old Towne, we carried a generator that made camp life easier.
Nothing like an electric space heater to dry wet gear, and keep the tent warm during the fall hunting season. Warm tent without the noxious fumes of the old fueled tent heaters.
I practically lived in a canoe in my younger years, fishing, camping and even had (have) a full blown car stereo system for it that I also use as a portable audio system for other uses. Went on many long canoe trips with it, and endless camping trips. Given the cargo capacity of the 17.5 footlong Old Towne, we carried a generator that made camp life easier.
Nothing like an electric space heater to dry wet gear, and keep the tent warm during the fall hunting season. Warm tent without the noxious fumes of the old fueled tent heaters.
So far, so good! (utters silent prayer)
We bought it at the Annapolis Spring River store late last summer, after selling our kayaks. To date, it's only been on flat water lake type paddles, and it's really weird man! I've never had a boat that is traslucent enough to see the water line from inside the boat. It's the natural Golden kevlar color, and has a thin clear gel coat, so the light shines through it. You can see the different layers where Wenonah has layed up the hull in differing layers. The bottom has a thicker foam core built into the layers, and it's a long diamond shape in the bottom. Visually, it's a beautiful canoe, but I'd be afraid of taking it to white water. Not that it wouldn't take it, but it's too damm good looking to mess up. I save an old Old Town Pathfinder for that.
You also sit lower in the boat compared to an Old Town. The drops holding the nylon web seats are longer, so the seat is deeper in the boat for added stability. Not quite as comfy as our OLd Town, so we just sit on the life jackets. Gives us a boost for the hip joint comfort.
The outside of the hull is finished off beautifully. Glass smooth. Slips through the water like an eel. With Karen and I giving even lazy half strokes of the paddles, the boat glides along at a fast walking pace, judging from the leaves floating on the surface and how fast we pass them.
With two people, day packs, boat bag, cooler, and Welsh Corgi aboard, it seems to be only drawing a couple inches of water. It paddles and tracks great. Almost tracks too well, it gives up some manuverbility for the fine hull and tracking. But that's okay with us, as we like to stop paddling and nature watch with our binoculars, and even with a breeze on the water, the boat will still coast in a pretty strait line. We picked this boat out of the Wenonah line for the description of it being transport for people, gear, and dogs. Very little rocker, fine hull lines, and good strait tracking, and light weight for two senior citizens to lift up on top of a Honda Element.
All in all, we're very happy with the boat, and look to give it lots use in the years to come.
Carl.