- Joined
- Jan 20, 2001
- Messages
- 1,190
Please tell me it is the LIMB that I have to cut off . . . PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:barf: ROTFLOL
-
The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
Price is$300$250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.
How many carry a "loaner"?
- Thread starter Ebbtide
- Start date
Please tell me it is the LIMB that I have to cut off . . . PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:barf: ROTFLOL
Les,
I have recently found my tastes shifting more and more toward custom knives.
However, in this day and age I must say Factory knives deserve much more respect than you seem to give them.
I would venture to say that many of the Factory Knives available today are better than many of the customs available.
I am glad that you are willing to stand behind your products. I would be very suprised if you told me that none of the Custom Knives you have ever sold have depreciated in market value.
I have recently found my tastes shifting more and more toward custom knives.
However, in this day and age I must say Factory knives deserve much more respect than you seem to give them.
I would venture to say that many of the Factory Knives available today are better than many of the customs available.
I am glad that you are willing to stand behind your products. I would be very suprised if you told me that none of the Custom Knives you have ever sold have depreciated in market value.
Les Robertson
BANNED
- Joined
- Oct 10, 1998
- Messages
- 3,565
SDouglas,
Actually in my earlier post I did say that not all custom knives are better than all factory knives.
This increase in quality is due directly to an increase in price. Some factory knives are retailing for the same price as custom knives.
A limited run for a factory is usually around 1,000 knives. For most makers that is from 3-6 years worth of work.
I have been selling custom knvies for 15 years. Yes, many of the knives I sold have deprciated in price.
One thing you have to understand about depreciation, is that it only exists because people need or willing to sell their knives for less money. If every person who bought a custom knife would not sell their knife for less than retail, the knives would never depreciate.
I will tell you that any knife I have sold since I started my trade in policy 7 years ago has only depreciated, because it's owner chose to depreciate it.
Unlike other dealers, I do not have "sale" pages or run "specials". Also, I do not sell for less than the makers price. Even if it means losing a sale once in a while.
I feel I owe this to the makers who I work with and the clients who buy knives from me.
Too many custom knife buyers approach re-selling with the wrong attitude. I see knives from makers for sale on this forum and others that have 2 or more year waits (or are not currently taking orders). They are selling these knives for less than retail. I shake my head every time I see this.
As once they sell this knife they may not be able to replace it and more than likely will have to pay more than what they sold their original knife for.
Factory knives are like any other manfactured product are only limited by the amount of product they can produce. Either by Captial, manufacturing capability (including skilled labor force) and strategic forecasting.
If a particular factory knife becomes so hot the company can't keep up. They can get loans (to generate more capital), lease manufacturing space and depending on the skill level needed find labor in short order.
Near term, they can take both the materials and machine time from less profitable or less in demand models and divert them to the new "hot" model.
It's not as easy as it sounds, but it can be done in a timely manner.
Obviously the most difficult part is to determine when the knife will no longer be "hot". This is almost impossible to predict. As such, there is almost always excess ineventory. This will be cleared out at years end (so as not to increase inventory with unwanted product). As such, you will see these once "hot" knives now on sale across the Internet and Gun Shows for what seem to be incredible prices.
In this instance, the collector has no say in the depreciation of the factory knife. The factory decides (though it's distributors) when it will be depreciated not you.
Makers, can never produce enough knives to be the ones responsible for the depreciation of custom knives. No, this falls soley on the custom knife buyers (and a few dealers who will lower prices if times a little slow or the knife has been hanging around to long).
If this is done in a public forum such as a web site. The dealers are putting everyone in a lose-lose situation.
The dealer loses as he irritates the maker and possibly those who bought a similar knife at a higher price.
The maker loses as his knife is devalued publicly. This may hurt the maker in future sales as well. Example, "you know anything about ABC Maker? All I know is that XYZ Custom Knife dealer "dumped" several of their knives they had". After hearing this, do you think that collector is going to buy a knife from that maker.
The collector who sees the same dealer who wouldn't give him a discount, is now selling knives at a discount to anyone. This is especially irritating to long term clients.
Don't get me wrong. Everything I am talking about here are proven strategies for manufactured products. Products that have built in obsolenses. Ever wonder why when you get a 3 year extended warranty it ends about 3 months before the product breaks? Manufacturers know how long something is going to last with average use. They find out, say it is 3.5 years. They then offer warranties for 1,2 and 3 years. Statistically, they know approximately how many products will break per thousand per year. If enough people purchase this "insurance" it will more than pay for any products that become defective during the 3 year period. After that, the company knows the products will start to fall apart at an alarming rate. This is why there is not a 4 year option.
Custom made products may fail as well. However, because of the additional attention to detail, the use of better materials, better tolerances and perhpas most importantly a person directly responsible for the production of this product.
When you buy a Ford, if something goes wrong with it, you do not get to talk directly to Mr. Ford. Not the case with the custom knife maker. You can find them, talk directly to them and find out how they are going to fix any problem with their knife.
So SDouglas, you are correct in your assumption that not every knife I have sold has held it's value. However, I will also tell you that any knife that was bought from me in the last five years that has not kept it's value is due directly to a customer devaluing his/her knife.
If you buy a knife from me, and then trade it back in for another. The absolute worst you do is break even.
As you can see there are many reasons I don't sell factory knives.
Some of the other reasons I post as I do here is for business reasons.
More and more people are transitioning from factory to custom knives. Years ago I had to explain almost daily why I wouldn't take several factory knives for one custom. Why I wouldn't take a Randall or other semi-production knife.
By explaining myself on these forums (at length) It has been years now since someone has offered me a Randall, Busse, Sebenza or knives from factories.
So to that end, it saves me a lot of time and in some cases hurt feelings.
It has worked the same with Mokume and Jigged Bone. Everyone knows I hate it, so makers no longer ask me to consider a knife with that material.
Are ther good factory knives out there? Yes. With the prices they charging they should be good.
For every person out there who spends $120 for a factory knife, there are hundreds of people looking at them shaking their heads. Thinking you could have got a Lightfoot CRKT model for $35, WHAT WERE YOU THINKING?????
How about one of those Pakistan knives at the flea market for $3.50.
Even that much money for a knife is to much for some people.
My point is this. For those of you out there who buy customs and use or loan factory knives. Why did you buy the custom knife in the first place?
Trust me these knives in the hunting and "tactical" markets are built to be used. So what if you scratch it. You should send your knife back to the maker every 18 months or so for a tune up anyway. Earlier, if you use it every day.
Don't worry, you won't lose it. I jumped out of Airplanes, Rappelled out of Helicopters, Snow showed and cross country skied at Northern Warfare School, conducted numerous patrols in the Jungles of Panama, Helo-Casted out of a Chinook, did STABO Operations under a Huey and even a little SERE Training. Guess what I never lost a knife! Oddly enough when you have a knife that costs several hundred dollars, you always know where it is at.
So you probably won't lose it going back and forth to work. I know for myself even now, it's Wallet, Knife, keys and sunglasses, and out the door.
When someone comes to borrow a custom knife, trust me if you loan it to them, you'll make sure you get your knife back.
Factory knives have actually been very good for custom knives. They have introduced thousands of collectors to custom knives, that may never have discovered them on their own.
The factories work with well known makers and take their best designs. Saving them hundreds of thousands on R&D and pay the makers about $5.00 per knife. Of course they just add the $5.00 to the cost of the knife and let the customer pay that part.
For many of the makers they get a lot of free advertising, they get brought to trade shows and get to meet thousands of potential customers for both the factory versions of their knives as well as their custom knives in the near future.
Factories are of course 18 - 24 months behind what is happening in the custom market. This works out well for many new custom knife buyers. As they can move from a factory version of the knife to a custom version of the knife. Because most of these custom knives have been out for years already, the new custom buyer can pick up the "custom" version of the factory knife for less than retail.
This eases that move into a new custom knife.
So there is a synergy with factory and custom knives.
Perhaps if when I got into custom knives the factory knives were better quality, maybe I would have stuck with them longer. However, for me, there was a little more sense of urgency.
SD, I hope this clears up any confusion.
Man I love looking at the big picture!
Actually in my earlier post I did say that not all custom knives are better than all factory knives.
This increase in quality is due directly to an increase in price. Some factory knives are retailing for the same price as custom knives.
A limited run for a factory is usually around 1,000 knives. For most makers that is from 3-6 years worth of work.
I have been selling custom knvies for 15 years. Yes, many of the knives I sold have deprciated in price.
One thing you have to understand about depreciation, is that it only exists because people need or willing to sell their knives for less money. If every person who bought a custom knife would not sell their knife for less than retail, the knives would never depreciate.
I will tell you that any knife I have sold since I started my trade in policy 7 years ago has only depreciated, because it's owner chose to depreciate it.
Unlike other dealers, I do not have "sale" pages or run "specials". Also, I do not sell for less than the makers price. Even if it means losing a sale once in a while.
I feel I owe this to the makers who I work with and the clients who buy knives from me.
Too many custom knife buyers approach re-selling with the wrong attitude. I see knives from makers for sale on this forum and others that have 2 or more year waits (or are not currently taking orders). They are selling these knives for less than retail. I shake my head every time I see this.
As once they sell this knife they may not be able to replace it and more than likely will have to pay more than what they sold their original knife for.
Factory knives are like any other manfactured product are only limited by the amount of product they can produce. Either by Captial, manufacturing capability (including skilled labor force) and strategic forecasting.
If a particular factory knife becomes so hot the company can't keep up. They can get loans (to generate more capital), lease manufacturing space and depending on the skill level needed find labor in short order.
Near term, they can take both the materials and machine time from less profitable or less in demand models and divert them to the new "hot" model.
It's not as easy as it sounds, but it can be done in a timely manner.
Obviously the most difficult part is to determine when the knife will no longer be "hot". This is almost impossible to predict. As such, there is almost always excess ineventory. This will be cleared out at years end (so as not to increase inventory with unwanted product). As such, you will see these once "hot" knives now on sale across the Internet and Gun Shows for what seem to be incredible prices.
In this instance, the collector has no say in the depreciation of the factory knife. The factory decides (though it's distributors) when it will be depreciated not you.
Makers, can never produce enough knives to be the ones responsible for the depreciation of custom knives. No, this falls soley on the custom knife buyers (and a few dealers who will lower prices if times a little slow or the knife has been hanging around to long).
If this is done in a public forum such as a web site. The dealers are putting everyone in a lose-lose situation.
The dealer loses as he irritates the maker and possibly those who bought a similar knife at a higher price.
The maker loses as his knife is devalued publicly. This may hurt the maker in future sales as well. Example, "you know anything about ABC Maker? All I know is that XYZ Custom Knife dealer "dumped" several of their knives they had". After hearing this, do you think that collector is going to buy a knife from that maker.
The collector who sees the same dealer who wouldn't give him a discount, is now selling knives at a discount to anyone. This is especially irritating to long term clients.
Don't get me wrong. Everything I am talking about here are proven strategies for manufactured products. Products that have built in obsolenses. Ever wonder why when you get a 3 year extended warranty it ends about 3 months before the product breaks? Manufacturers know how long something is going to last with average use. They find out, say it is 3.5 years. They then offer warranties for 1,2 and 3 years. Statistically, they know approximately how many products will break per thousand per year. If enough people purchase this "insurance" it will more than pay for any products that become defective during the 3 year period. After that, the company knows the products will start to fall apart at an alarming rate. This is why there is not a 4 year option.
Custom made products may fail as well. However, because of the additional attention to detail, the use of better materials, better tolerances and perhpas most importantly a person directly responsible for the production of this product.
When you buy a Ford, if something goes wrong with it, you do not get to talk directly to Mr. Ford. Not the case with the custom knife maker. You can find them, talk directly to them and find out how they are going to fix any problem with their knife.
So SDouglas, you are correct in your assumption that not every knife I have sold has held it's value. However, I will also tell you that any knife that was bought from me in the last five years that has not kept it's value is due directly to a customer devaluing his/her knife.
If you buy a knife from me, and then trade it back in for another. The absolute worst you do is break even.
As you can see there are many reasons I don't sell factory knives.
Some of the other reasons I post as I do here is for business reasons.
More and more people are transitioning from factory to custom knives. Years ago I had to explain almost daily why I wouldn't take several factory knives for one custom. Why I wouldn't take a Randall or other semi-production knife.
By explaining myself on these forums (at length) It has been years now since someone has offered me a Randall, Busse, Sebenza or knives from factories.
So to that end, it saves me a lot of time and in some cases hurt feelings.
It has worked the same with Mokume and Jigged Bone. Everyone knows I hate it, so makers no longer ask me to consider a knife with that material.
Are ther good factory knives out there? Yes. With the prices they charging they should be good.
For every person out there who spends $120 for a factory knife, there are hundreds of people looking at them shaking their heads. Thinking you could have got a Lightfoot CRKT model for $35, WHAT WERE YOU THINKING?????
How about one of those Pakistan knives at the flea market for $3.50.
Even that much money for a knife is to much for some people.
My point is this. For those of you out there who buy customs and use or loan factory knives. Why did you buy the custom knife in the first place?
Trust me these knives in the hunting and "tactical" markets are built to be used. So what if you scratch it. You should send your knife back to the maker every 18 months or so for a tune up anyway. Earlier, if you use it every day.
Don't worry, you won't lose it. I jumped out of Airplanes, Rappelled out of Helicopters, Snow showed and cross country skied at Northern Warfare School, conducted numerous patrols in the Jungles of Panama, Helo-Casted out of a Chinook, did STABO Operations under a Huey and even a little SERE Training. Guess what I never lost a knife! Oddly enough when you have a knife that costs several hundred dollars, you always know where it is at.
So you probably won't lose it going back and forth to work. I know for myself even now, it's Wallet, Knife, keys and sunglasses, and out the door.
When someone comes to borrow a custom knife, trust me if you loan it to them, you'll make sure you get your knife back.
Factory knives have actually been very good for custom knives. They have introduced thousands of collectors to custom knives, that may never have discovered them on their own.
The factories work with well known makers and take their best designs. Saving them hundreds of thousands on R&D and pay the makers about $5.00 per knife. Of course they just add the $5.00 to the cost of the knife and let the customer pay that part.
For many of the makers they get a lot of free advertising, they get brought to trade shows and get to meet thousands of potential customers for both the factory versions of their knives as well as their custom knives in the near future.
Factories are of course 18 - 24 months behind what is happening in the custom market. This works out well for many new custom knife buyers. As they can move from a factory version of the knife to a custom version of the knife. Because most of these custom knives have been out for years already, the new custom buyer can pick up the "custom" version of the factory knife for less than retail.
This eases that move into a new custom knife.
So there is a synergy with factory and custom knives.
Perhaps if when I got into custom knives the factory knives were better quality, maybe I would have stuck with them longer. However, for me, there was a little more sense of urgency.
SD, I hope this clears up any confusion.
Man I love looking at the big picture!
I carry a loaner. After 12 years on active duty, I've seen everything that's NOT supposed to be done with a knife. The broken blades, chipped blades, broken handles, and so on.
Perfect example? (Les, no offense to Officers)
While at work the other day, one of our 2LT's was locked out of his office. He asked me if he could use my knife. I asked what for, he explained to pry the door open. I promptly said NO. As I went to the supply room to get him a screwdriver, another 2LT walked up and handed him a Gerber Gator Drop Point(154CM blade). I walked back to both the LT's with a screwdriver in hand, when, as was expected, SNAP! went the blade on the Gerber. Well, after popping the handle with the screwdriver, I looked at the LT with the broken knife and said "pretty expensive screwdriver, huh?". He asked if I could fix it!!!
This will always happen with knives being used the wrong way.
As for the loaner? A Benchmade Sentinel or CQC-7. I carry a Tom Anderson Sandpiper as my using knife, and I am not afraid to use the #$@% out of it. That's what I bought it for. That's what the knife was made for.
Perfect example? (Les, no offense to Officers)
While at work the other day, one of our 2LT's was locked out of his office. He asked me if he could use my knife. I asked what for, he explained to pry the door open. I promptly said NO. As I went to the supply room to get him a screwdriver, another 2LT walked up and handed him a Gerber Gator Drop Point(154CM blade). I walked back to both the LT's with a screwdriver in hand, when, as was expected, SNAP! went the blade on the Gerber. Well, after popping the handle with the screwdriver, I looked at the LT with the broken knife and said "pretty expensive screwdriver, huh?". He asked if I could fix it!!!
This will always happen with knives being used the wrong way.
As for the loaner? A Benchmade Sentinel or CQC-7. I carry a Tom Anderson Sandpiper as my using knife, and I am not afraid to use the #$@% out of it. That's what I bought it for. That's what the knife was made for.
- Joined
- Apr 17, 2000
- Messages
- 1,287
That WAS one big picture. Well said and well taken.
Yep. I'll carry a "loaner". I'll carry a CQC-5/6 or a Viper1 on a lot of days, but will also carry Shiny Black Chive down in the pocket to cover stuff that would freak out the ever-present sheeple. As an ex-UPS driver, I've had too many incidents where people (sheeple) actually gasped when I opened a Buck 112 to help them open a package.
Yep. I'll carry a "loaner". I'll carry a CQC-5/6 or a Viper1 on a lot of days, but will also carry Shiny Black Chive down in the pocket to cover stuff that would freak out the ever-present sheeple. As an ex-UPS driver, I've had too many incidents where people (sheeple) actually gasped when I opened a Buck 112 to help them open a package.
bandaidman
Basic Member
- Joined
- Feb 11, 2001
- Messages
- 1,149
Les, you are a hoot. You emphasize homework and judging by the length of your responses in this thread you must have done well in your typing classes in high school.......
What is with the hanging by the genitalia fixation? A new example is definately in order!!!!!!
wolfmann601
Gone, but not forgotton. RIP Ira.
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2001
- Messages
- 7,385
Got to give it to you LES, you sure do tell it like you see it!!!! I find that one of the most admirable traits in a MAN. You do NOT mince words.
One thing you DID SAY, that I certainly NOW understand is that many of your posts are "business related" That is why I EXPECT you to NOT slam someone who spends, or has spent Tens of thousand of dollars, if not MORE on your custom products.
Please DO NOT read anything into this LES. I am simply saying: "I DO FINALLY UNDESTAND the [Dealer crap isues] concepts you have tried to get ME to understand for a couple of weeks now.
I DO GET IT and thanks for just telling it as YOU see it......Ira
One thing you DID SAY, that I certainly NOW understand is that many of your posts are "business related" That is why I EXPECT you to NOT slam someone who spends, or has spent Tens of thousand of dollars, if not MORE on your custom products.
Please DO NOT read anything into this LES. I am simply saying: "I DO FINALLY UNDESTAND the [Dealer crap isues] concepts you have tried to get ME to understand for a couple of weeks now.
I DO GET IT and thanks for just telling it as YOU see it......Ira
Les Robertson
BANNED
- Joined
- Oct 10, 1998
- Messages
- 3,565
Tobii,
No offense taken. Scariest thing in the world...an Infantry 2LT! The most motivated thing in the world...an Infantry 2LT.
I once saw an OER (Officer Efficiency Report) that read "his soldiers would follow him into combat our of sheer curiousity".
But a perfect example as to be careful when loaning out a knife.
Bandaid Man,
My example is designed exclusively for those who feel that factory knives are just as good as custom knives.
I loved my high school typing class. Me and 18 girls! I learned how to type and got a couple of dates as well!
Kwaiken 56,
I understand exactly what you mean. Because I find myself daily in the post office, fedex, bank, resturants, etc. As well as going to my daughters schools several times a week. I carry a very unassuming Kit Cason small model 4. It is very used and looks that way. I open it quietly, use it and put it away.
Of course at these places I generally see the same people all of the time. They all know I am a custom knife dealer. So when the see me with a knife, perhaps the cut me a little more slack than others.
Royo,
Regarding Strider Knives, unfortunatley, money is a finite resource for me. Also, Mike and Duane have just about all the business they can stand right now. I have talked with Mike about doing some custom designs for me. He was good enough to draw up a knife for me.
This year has been just an incredibly busy year for me. I have been really working hard to get the Vanguard Knives established and a few other projects (my book) at up a lot of time.
I know if I was looking for a Strider Knife I would go to Triple Aught Design, they seem to always have them in stock or some coming in. I love all the gadgets on their web site!
Wolfman,
Glad to see you are getting it. You are correct, many of my threads are "business" related. I do this intentionally to help people understand the "dealer" thought process. At least this dealers thought process.
I try never to slam collectors, whether they are buying one knife or have bought a thousand knives. I have always held, it is your collection and you should buy what you like.
As a "business" I feel it is necessary to give the best information I can at the time I am giving it. As we all know, "the truth changes". What is true today, may not be true tomorrow.
Every year when I do my taxes I am amazed at the dollar amount of knives I have sold. It makes me realize that there are a lot of people who spend their money on the products I promote/support.
When I became a full time custom knife dealer 7 years ago, I asked myself what would I want if I were a collector. I thought about all the information and time that Paul Basch took with me when I first started buying custom knives.
I also thought it would be nice not to have a place where you could buy knives, own them for a while and move up to a more expensive knife and get what I paid for out of the other knife.
I for one have always contented that custom knives should hold their value. I understand from being here for years now that this concept is foreign to most collectors. When I do the seminars at the Blade Show a question I always ask those in the audience is "why would you buy a custom knife that you know is not going to hold it's value?"
The other part of the equation of my trade in policy. Is that it kept me from buying inferior and/or over valued knives and overpricing the knives on my end. If you are going to put yourself in a position that you will take back in trade any knife you sell. You have definetly put your money where your mouth is.
I always grin when I hear people ask, "What makers should I consider". I ask them if they have been to my web site. They usually respond "yes, but of course you recommend those makers, because you are selling their knives". I respond..."exactly".
After a few seconds...they get it!
Many people here and other places contend that their knives are not investments. I respond, that if I had thousands of dollars tied up in something that is a non-essential item to every day living,I would consider them an investment. Consequently, they should be treated as such.
I have 25 knives in my collection. I expect to make money with every single one of those knives.
Well this has kind of gotten away from the original concept of "loaner" knives.
We now return you to our regularly scheduled thread!
No offense taken. Scariest thing in the world...an Infantry 2LT! The most motivated thing in the world...an Infantry 2LT.
I once saw an OER (Officer Efficiency Report) that read "his soldiers would follow him into combat our of sheer curiousity".
But a perfect example as to be careful when loaning out a knife.
Bandaid Man,
My example is designed exclusively for those who feel that factory knives are just as good as custom knives.
I loved my high school typing class. Me and 18 girls! I learned how to type and got a couple of dates as well!
Kwaiken 56,
I understand exactly what you mean. Because I find myself daily in the post office, fedex, bank, resturants, etc. As well as going to my daughters schools several times a week. I carry a very unassuming Kit Cason small model 4. It is very used and looks that way. I open it quietly, use it and put it away.
Of course at these places I generally see the same people all of the time. They all know I am a custom knife dealer. So when the see me with a knife, perhaps the cut me a little more slack than others.
Royo,
Regarding Strider Knives, unfortunatley, money is a finite resource for me. Also, Mike and Duane have just about all the business they can stand right now. I have talked with Mike about doing some custom designs for me. He was good enough to draw up a knife for me.
This year has been just an incredibly busy year for me. I have been really working hard to get the Vanguard Knives established and a few other projects (my book) at up a lot of time.
I know if I was looking for a Strider Knife I would go to Triple Aught Design, they seem to always have them in stock or some coming in. I love all the gadgets on their web site!
Wolfman,
Glad to see you are getting it. You are correct, many of my threads are "business" related. I do this intentionally to help people understand the "dealer" thought process. At least this dealers thought process.
I try never to slam collectors, whether they are buying one knife or have bought a thousand knives. I have always held, it is your collection and you should buy what you like.
As a "business" I feel it is necessary to give the best information I can at the time I am giving it. As we all know, "the truth changes". What is true today, may not be true tomorrow.
Every year when I do my taxes I am amazed at the dollar amount of knives I have sold. It makes me realize that there are a lot of people who spend their money on the products I promote/support.
When I became a full time custom knife dealer 7 years ago, I asked myself what would I want if I were a collector. I thought about all the information and time that Paul Basch took with me when I first started buying custom knives.
I also thought it would be nice not to have a place where you could buy knives, own them for a while and move up to a more expensive knife and get what I paid for out of the other knife.
I for one have always contented that custom knives should hold their value. I understand from being here for years now that this concept is foreign to most collectors. When I do the seminars at the Blade Show a question I always ask those in the audience is "why would you buy a custom knife that you know is not going to hold it's value?"
The other part of the equation of my trade in policy. Is that it kept me from buying inferior and/or over valued knives and overpricing the knives on my end. If you are going to put yourself in a position that you will take back in trade any knife you sell. You have definetly put your money where your mouth is.
I always grin when I hear people ask, "What makers should I consider". I ask them if they have been to my web site. They usually respond "yes, but of course you recommend those makers, because you are selling their knives". I respond..."exactly".
After a few seconds...they get it!
Many people here and other places contend that their knives are not investments. I respond, that if I had thousands of dollars tied up in something that is a non-essential item to every day living,I would consider them an investment. Consequently, they should be treated as such.
I have 25 knives in my collection. I expect to make money with every single one of those knives.
Well this has kind of gotten away from the original concept of "loaner" knives.
We now return you to our regularly scheduled thread!
- Joined
- Nov 6, 1999
- Messages
- 2,639
Les is Always More!
In brief, the take-home message for this thread is: 'Friends don't let friends use factory knives'...
It's simple, succinct, and life-saving.
Paraisahappycustomer
In brief, the take-home message for this thread is: 'Friends don't let friends use factory knives'...
It's simple, succinct, and life-saving.
Paraisahappycustomer
- Joined
- Oct 13, 2000
- Messages
- 549
Les,
That is TRUE with multi thousand (or even single thousand) dollar knives, but there are a LOT of custom knives that are quite a bit cheaper than that, that I look at as "Just a tool" - How about the $125 drop point hunter. I couldn't get what I wanted from the factory (Blade shape and material), so I had one made. It's a tool - a pretty tool, but a tool
I carry a Chimera. I don't abuse it, and it'll probabaly hold value better than a factory knife, but I don't really care! Ive never sold a knife, and don't intend to. I HAVE worn out one or two factory knives (cheap handles came apart). I bought it because I wanted a nice looking Talonite knife for every day hard use
Yeah, none are "High end" customs, but I don't treat them that way either. If the bevel gets a bit off center, or the blade gets scratched, I don't worry - Now my Jeff Hall #2 is different - that one gets babied a bit. I'll never sell it, but I try to keep it looking new
I guess it depends on what you buy the knife for! At this point, I can't see buying another knife for the time being. I have and EDC that suits my needs, a hunting knife that suits my needs, and a dress knife that suits my needs, so I won't buy any more in those categories! If my needs change, or I need a knife for a different purpose, I'll buy another knife
I guess it depends if your a knife collector, or a knife USER (NOT saying a collector can't be a user). I don't collect custom knifes - I use them
Les Robertson
BANNED
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- Oct 10, 1998
- Messages
- 3,565
HI Charles,
I agree with you that most custom knife buyers do not start out as collectors.
I bought my first custom knife to fill a need that I had. The knife was used to the point of abuse. Matter of fact I didn't buy another custom knife for almost a year.
I was perfectly content to have my one knife. Then a fellow Lieutenant took me to Knoxville TN to this thing called the Blade Show.
True my next 30 knives were bought as "user's". As I swore to all who would listen "I only buy using knives, I am not a collector".
I don't know when it happened but it did, I became a collector. Then a Quasi-Dealer, this was done strictly to support my growing habit.
Then I joined David Cohen's Knifeaholics Unanimous. It was there I learned the only cure for me was to resign my commission from the Army and become a full time custom knife entrepreneur!
I found that with 1-3 custom knives, usually a folder, hunter and utility fixed blade, you are a user. After that, like it or not you are a collector.
Charles, you seem to be only a knife or two away.....be careful
I agree with you that most custom knife buyers do not start out as collectors.
I bought my first custom knife to fill a need that I had. The knife was used to the point of abuse. Matter of fact I didn't buy another custom knife for almost a year.
I was perfectly content to have my one knife. Then a fellow Lieutenant took me to Knoxville TN to this thing called the Blade Show.
True my next 30 knives were bought as "user's". As I swore to all who would listen "I only buy using knives, I am not a collector".
I don't know when it happened but it did, I became a collector. Then a Quasi-Dealer, this was done strictly to support my growing habit.
Then I joined David Cohen's Knifeaholics Unanimous. It was there I learned the only cure for me was to resign my commission from the Army and become a full time custom knife entrepreneur!
I found that with 1-3 custom knives, usually a folder, hunter and utility fixed blade, you are a user. After that, like it or not you are a collector.
Charles, you seem to be only a knife or two away.....be careful
- Joined
- Nov 6, 1999
- Messages
- 419
Ain't that the truth?
- Joined
- Oct 13, 2000
- Messages
- 549
Originally posted by Les Robertson
snip...I found that with 1-3 custom knives, usually a folder, hunter and utility fixed blade, you are a user. After that, like it or not you are a collector.
Charles, you seem to be only a knife or two away.....be careful
Yeah, I can see that, and guess what, my criteria for buying would be a heck of a lot closer to your criteria, than mine
However, at this stage (and with the hobbies I have) I'm a heck of a lot more likely to buy a frink grinder than another knife, and then hopefully YOU will be buying from ME
wolfmann601
Gone, but not forgotton. RIP Ira.
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2001
- Messages
- 7,385
It is just far MORE fun to BUY than it is to sell or trade!!!! I would have DENIED being a collector since the majority of my knives are factory and the few customs I do have are USERS, but I keep buying and buying, so I guess I am COLLECTING!!!!
But trading and selling is too FRUSTRATING!!! Too many offers and NOT enough knives to trade!!!!
AND NO, I would NEVER loan ANY knife to Most of my "friends". They think knives are crow-bars!!!!..........wolf
But trading and selling is too FRUSTRATING!!! Too many offers and NOT enough knives to trade!!!!
AND NO, I would NEVER loan ANY knife to Most of my "friends". They think knives are crow-bars!!!!..........wolf
- Joined
- Nov 6, 1999
- Messages
- 419
I carry a "loaner," or, as I call it, a "beater." It is, however, a handmade knife that was a prototype, and not up to my standards for sale to a customer. It's the one that gets the tape adhesive on it, or gets dulled by a staple when opening a box.