How much does it cost to get scarry sharp?

Actually the magic marker trick teaches you a lot, it helps to train your brain and hands to maintain a consistent angle.

If I learned nothing else, I learned that practice/repetition, learns the mind and the body consistency.

I often see people who apply enough pressure to deflect the edge of the blade while sharpening, this is bad for a couple of reasons,slipping with the knife and hurting yourself, and premature wear of your stones.

Sharpening is a process that has several steps, that depend on the desired type of edge, my old man used to tell me if your workin' to hard your probably usin' the wrong tool. Use a coarse stone to reprofile and work into the finer grits to achieve the desired edge, you can't take a piece of flat stock and make it razor sharp with one stone without some compromise somewhere.
 
Only thing to add is... I keept getting finer and finer grit stones then steels then strops to get that hi polished edge. Then wondered why because the coarser edge cuts better for most of my cutting. :) Does the learning ever stop. Hope not :)
 
This is a great thread. Since I am just about to embark on the sharpening adventure for the first time, can anyone suggest some brands and types of freehand stones to buy since it sounds like I am going to wind up there in the end anyway? Your recommendation could save me from buying some stones that I won't use later on. The array of stones available is mind boggling: whetstones, oil stones, diamond, ceramic, etc. One thing that has always puzzled me about freehand sharpening is how you maintain a correct and consistent angle with the stone. Is it just a trial and error process where you measure your success by using a magic marker on the edge or is there some other technique that I need to learn? Thanks. :confused:
 
As stupid as it sounds your body learns to maintain a consistent angle through repitition, your brain learns the shortest path to your muscles and nerves, based on repitition, much the same way we learn to walk as an infant/toddler, through trial and error.

As for the proper angle, that comes with experience, and feel. You learn how to hold the blade to maintain the current angle on the edge, it's a tactile and auditory input that just feels right and sounds right, the sound the blade makes as it skates across the hone is different when the larger surface area is being abraided at the matching ange, vs to steep of an angle with less surface coming in contact with the hone.

Also you can help maintain your angle by using your thumb as a rest/guide and tucking the spine securely against you thumb.

Most name brand stones are ok, depending on how hard the edge,(what Rockwell rating 56-58, 59-61) the harder the steel the longer it takes to wear it away, or the harder the stone has to be, this is where diamond hones come in handy, my best advice is buy name brand what ever you get, and buy the largest stone you can comfortably afford.
 
I just buy cheap stones from places like Peavy mart and Canadian Tire...

Usually about 2" x 7" x 1", combo(2 grits, 1 per side), and about $5/stone.

I used a 500/800, then grabbed a 200/300 for redoing vg-10... the next step I have is the Spyderco UltraFine and a Heavy grit(100ish) Diamond Hone.

The best advice I can give is just go till it feels right. I run the spine about 2x it's width above the stone(ie 1/8" spine runs 1/4" above) just by guess. By lowering the spine, you increase the angle. You will feel the difference in the stroke. I taught my friend(over about 2 weeks) using the magic marker and a 500grit stone(I bought him 500/800), and now he can get a decent edge from the 800 side. Think this year I buy him a 303MF.
 
Full set of Japanese waterstones: $120.00
Large Reg.Sebenza: $300.00
Learning how to sharpen freehand from grandpa and dad with their benchstones and Old Timer Knives: Priceless


I've carried a folding knife since age 8 and after 12 years there isn't a damn thing I can't make so harp it cuts hair befor eyou make comntact with your skin with a a course/fine benchstone and a strop. Right now I use a full set of Jap. Waterstones in 280,1000,4000,8000 grit and follow up with touchups with the 4000 and 8000 grit stones when needed.
 
Originally posted by VampyreWolf
I run the spine about 2x it's width above the stone(ie 1/8" spine runs 1/4" above) just by guess. By lowering the spine, you increase the angle.
Click to expand...

:confused: By lowering the spine, you are decreasing the angle, not increasing the angle, both the angle the knife is held off the stone, and the angle the bevel is sharpened. Holding a knife with 1/8" blade 1/4" off the stone is roughly a 15 degree edge angle. This is a 30 degree included edge. Pretty narrow for general utility, but good for some knives. If you lower the spine you are making it even more narrow of an edge. My Chive is at 15 degree, and this is a perfect angle for this little knife and the tasks called upon it. Spyderco recommends using their 20 degree (40 degree setting) for most utility, and the 15 degree (30 degree setting) for back beveling.

Mike
 
medic> oh sh*t, brain fart...

thx for correcting that one.

Yep, I run 30 inclusive for most of my knives... 40 for my field knives(skinner, tanto...)

The only blade I run a wide edge on, approx 50 inclusive, is my machete...
 
This is a great thread!
I've never used a 'device'
Just watched the Uncles and Dad sharpen and tried to make like them.
Got lots of practice on my cheap teenage knives. Muscle memory is the key, like throwing or hitting a ball.
I was allowed to carry a knife and it was my responsibility to keep it sharp.
My Dad will ask to use my knife before he reaches for his. I used to think that he didn't want to ruin his...now I realize that he was checking up on me.
Thru the years I've aquired Dad's old (really old) Pike India Stone, My father-in-law's coarse no name stone (in a wood box that he made :) ), a Gerber Sharpmaker (great for fish hooks), A Smith's kit (hard, soft arkansas & oil), an EZLap diamond hone (Dozier's rec.), and the last purchase was a Norton India combo stone (if Fisk sez so...I'll try it)

I've also been experimenting with the mousepad/sandpaper way of the convex edge. This works. This works especially well if you want to thin out the bevels. It is doing wonders for my Livesay USMarshall. Newt designed that for heavy duty, I've got it so that it'll do kitchen duty ;)
Have also m'padded my Sharpfinger and an old SJ with great results.
Dad sharpens his SAK with sandpaper on a block of wood. After 2 decades of hard use it has a wharncliffe main blade :eek:

Buy what you like, but practice. There is no substitute.
This is why there is a shoebox of lesser/uncool knives in your closet...for practice!
;)
 
I'm picking up a sharpening system this weekend, and It look's like the clamp system is for me. Edge pros are too expensive, and I want a mechanically guaranteed edge angle consistency. Who makes the best clamp/guide system???
 
I made a long post and it got wiped out, so here's the short version.

There are 2 styles of clamp systems, the Lansky/gatco/DMT type, and the Razor Edge Systems/Honemaster type.

In a nutshell, get the Razor Edge clamp! Why? getting even bevels is more important than the angle. THe Razor Edge clamp allows you to get even bevels easily. There is some angle adjustment available, though it is quite limited. The clamp will wear down, but not all that fast. I can get them locally, so check your sporting goods stores for a Razor Edge systems clamp (they have free info to send you if you check their website.) There is a bonus whenusing the RES style clamps: you are teaching your hands how to sharpen freehand.

Now all you need is a coarse hone, a medium hone and/or a fine one. FOr the coarse, just get as big and rough as you can get. Use this stone without the clamp, and just eyeball a 15 degree angle. You want to scrub each side of the blade so that you take down the steel behind the edge. This is called reprofiling, or grinding relief. Just scrub on the one side for a bit, then on the other. Then switch to the first side and scrub until you get a burr. THen switch to the other side and scrub until you get a burr. Powerful figure-eught strokes work well for me. Switch to a fine hone to polish your relief bevel.

With good relief ground in, the edge sharpening goes very fast (and reduces wear on the clamp.) Clamp the blade into the clamp and sharpen on one side until you get a burr. flip the knife over and sharpen until you get a burr. Switch to the fine hone and sharpen until you get a burr on one side, and then ditto the other side. Then do alternating strokes while lightening up on the pressure. THe wire will be gone and you'll have a terriffic edge! The edge sharpening process should take only a few minutes (5, if that.) You don;t have to grind in relief every time, but once in a while you'll have to go back to this important step. Walmart sells Norton stones for $4 or $5 dollars, so get that to use as a coarse stone (they are combo stones here, so you get a coarse and medium). After a while, you can skip using the guides and you'll be a good freehander. Years later, you'll be a legend to your kids/grand kids!!!

To all you sharpmaker users: why get diamond thingies for your sharpmaker when all you need is a coarse hone??? Grind in relief as I described and then sharpen at the 20 degree setting. THe grey stones will raise a burr in no time with relief ground on a $5 stone! Polish it up with the white stones and you're on your way!!
 
Great thread T.Elderly!

Fortunatelly, in my country, a $100 sharpening system would cost me about $400 so I was forced to keep with the freehand sharpening untill I got good results. So I've spent about $5, at the most, in sharpening systems... On the other hand the american knives prices follow the same proportion and so I didn´t get any reall materialist advantage besides developing free-hand sharpening skills...
 
Victorinox makes the best wood saws. They're great for sawing through the backbone on walleyes. I'm still waiting for Vic to make an SAK with 3 saws.
 
Buzz,

Even though we don't have straight bevel on convex ground blades, what is the common end edge angle? that is if you take the final angle at which the edge is formed ...

just curious as i am trying to do some conversion of my current blades.
 
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