How much does steel matter to you?

A

Alacrity

Joined
Aug 25, 2013
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First off I still consider myself new to this knife obsession bug, but I am trying to learn quickly. I'd like to ask the opinion of everyone who looks at this to help better my knowledge through those more experienced than me. First, what is your favorite steel and why? Second, how much does the quality of steel matter to you in a knife purchase versus handle material, ergonomics, blade shape etc. Finally, what steels do you just hate and why.

For me I have found D2 (in my relatively light use) to be an awesome steel. Super tough and strong and cuts anything. I keep a relatively toothy edge on it and just love how it cuts and rarely needs to be sharpened.

I have found the more I get into knives that steel seems to matter more and more to me. I own knives that range from 154 cm to elmax to 440C and always the higher quality steels make it into my daily rotation while lower quality tends to stay in the drawer. One of my favorite knives right now is the hinderer ZT 0551 in elmax.

I don't feel like I have enough experience yet to have a least favorite steel but I'll let y'all know if I find one.

Please give opinions! I love good discussion.

Thanks,
Alacrity
 
It matters a great deal! Alloy selection is almost as important as proper geometry for a given task or range of tasks. Geometry cuts; steel and HT determine how long a knife cuts before chipping or going dull.

Ease of sharpening, edge-holding, toughness and corrosion resistance all must be considered when choosing the appropriate steel to suit your needs. Happily, we're blessed with many very good steels that exhibit each of these attributes to varying degrees, and a select few truly excellent ones that combine them all at high levels. :)

Some will claim that "heat-treat is more important than steel choice", and frankly that is hogwash - unless you're comparing great steel with terrible HT to mediocre steel with optimum HT. There's no question that proper heat-treatment is extremely important, but there's simply no need to even consider less-than-optimal HT these days, unless your budget is severely limited. Even in the sub-$50 range there are several manufacturers offering knives with good steel with good HT.
 
As long as the maker uses an acceptable grade of cutlery steel for the task, I care very little about the specific steel. There is alot that goes into the making of a good knife and for me the steel used ranks well below blade design, handle ergonomics, sheaths, and functionality. It matter little how well the edge wears, if the basic aren't there to begin with; it has to be useable first and foremost. Too many get too hung up on the latest steel fad, when a more common steel can do just as well or better. Just learn to sharpen your knives and understand that a razor's edge is best suited to razors and that other knives may work better with a far more obtuse edge, especially if you are doing any kind of chopping or wood processing.

n2s
 
james terrio said:
Ease of sharpening, edge-holding, toughness and corrosion resistance all must be considered when choosing the appropriate steel to suit your needs. Happily, we're blessed with many very good steels that exhibit each of these attributes to varying degrees, and a select few truly excellent ones that combine them all at high levels. :)
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I would love to know what you consider the select few excellent steels! I agree with much of what you say here. I am curious as to your opinion on HT. Do you know companies that heat treat much better than others? Which companies?

@N2S:

So for you, steel is not as important as how you profile your edge and the ergonomics of the handle? In your experience have you been able to get results with "lesser" steels that are comparable to results with "better" steels? I'm also curious as to which steels your favorite knives are.

Thanks,
Alacrity
 
I don't care much about the distinctions between the various steel flavors, as I am not a hard use guy who is concerned with edge retention, chipping, etc. For a guy who is using his knife all day on the job, I understand how these things become more imporant. I like a steel to hold a decent edge, and not be impossible to sharpen. Beyond that, just about any of the current steel flavors are fine with me.
 
Unless I change my needs, very little. Considering my father was a laborer and used his pocket knife a lot. It took him 20+ years to need to replace it. That was an old Case small whittler and he needed to replace it because he broke a blade not because he wore it out. Today, a soft high carbon steel (RHc < 56) will last most people most of their life. Your D2 blades should last you your life.
 
I have a few knives in 154CM and CPM 154, but I have lots of stuff in 4116, AUS-8, 440A, 440C, and even a couple in 420J2, as well as many in various carbon steels. I don't mind any steel that's decently treated. I'm not the kind who'll see a knife I want and not pull the trigger just because "it's only AUS-8, etc." I'm sort of the same kind of user as powernoodle. Having said that, I just ordered my first ZT from kershawguy this evening: a ZT0700 in S30V (will be my first in this steel). I bought it because I loved the style and the price was right, and would have bought it in AUS-8 if that's what they were offering it in, but maybe the steel will win me over as well. We'll see. :thumbup:
 
I totally agree with not2sharp. Steel mfg. and customers desires are very trendsical. Whatever whiz bang steel is in vogue today will not be in such demand shortly. I was a steel snob and now have moved on to placing greater importance on blade shape, edge profile, heat-treat and ergonomics. i.e. how it sharpens, handle material, feel, features and sheath. I've heat-treated some 440C that cuts just as long as
S30V and is much easier to put a mirror polish on and not so tricky to heat-treat. To me there are other items in a knife's make-up which carry more weight than the steel.
Some steels I like are: 440C, D2, 154-cm and it's up-grade brother. Vanaduim in the mix I don't have to have nor powder metallurgy. DM
 
Steel choice was very important to me when the pm steels first started being used.

I find m4 to be a great work knife steel as I need to go through a 60 hour work week without sharpening.

For more normal circumstances, I've mostly settled on carbon steels because I can get them very sharp and enjoy sharpening them. In the kitchen I've enjoyed s30v for its corrosion resistance, but still use carbon when it is me alone that will be using and caring for the knife.

I'm not the only one that has moved from high end stainless and other pm steels "back" to more simple steels. I've seen several people mention the same.
 
I really like the better steels and the way they will hold an edge at a thin geometry while retaining some toughness. They really are better all around in every area. I have pocket knives in CPM-D2 and S30V that are fantastic. That said, 420HC for a pocket knife and German-style X45 or X50 for a kitchen knife is perfectly adequate for my needs and comes back easily with a little sharpening. If I had only those two steels for the rest of my life, I'd probably be perfectly happy.
 
I am becoming a steel snob to say the least however, treatment is now becoming much more important to me.... I can honestly say I've personally noticed a huge different in one companies s30v and others. Microtech for example, their s35vn is outstanding, I know Strider only uses s30v and 154-cm... nothing crazy exotic but they get the treatment right, same as Reeve.
 
I tend to prefer simpler steels with finer grain structures.

I stay away from the supersteel flavors of the month. Sure I prefer some steels over others (no love for s30v here...) but in the end its all steel , and I can tailor any of them to my own uses. Even ceramic.
 
Mag, you're right, edge stability is an issue for me when going as acute as I'd sometimes like.

M4 (64ish HRC) seems very stable at 28° inclusive, while Case CV rolls at the same bevel angle. That's the one downside with softer steels in general (as I see it).

Honestly, if I could only have knives made in one steel for the rest of my life it would be m4.
 
Alacrity said:
@N2S:

So for you, steel is not as important as how you profile your edge and the ergonomics of the handle? In your experience have you been able to get results with "lesser" steels that are comparable to results with "better" steels? I'm also curious as to which steels your favorite knives are.

Thanks,
Alacrity
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I like traditional hard use carbon steels like 5160 and 1095, and find most good stainless steels like 440B, 440C, 154CM and the like to work well.

n2s
 
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Back "in the day" when I bought a knife because of how it looked (face palm), I had no clue what the blade was made from. I used the knife to skin wire, cut boxes open etc.. Knife worked fine for me. Enter the year 2004, bought an expensive Benchmade mini grip in 440c and found Bladeforums.....boy did that cost me! Learned about knives and HAD to have the greatest steel available. Now 2013, thousans of dollars later, I carry 8cr14mov in a 30.00 knife and am happy with it. I agree with Powernoddle, spot on.
 
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So with these high end steels does heat treat matter more than with lower end steels? Or is heat treat just always super important?

Thanks for all the input guys! Keep it coming. It's giving me a new perspective.

Alacrity
 
HT is always important. Grain refinement alone is important.

Take a look at the edge retention thread in the Reviews forum. A couple of steels from custom makers went way beyond the same steel from production companies.
 
In choosing a new knive, I use the following styerps.

1 Decide what the knife will be used for.
2 Choose a steel and optimal heat treat for that use.
3.choose a geometry based on 1 and 2.
4. Choose a maker that I trust.

Some steels, like D-2, M-2, 154CM, 440C, CPM M-4, S35VN, VG-10 and Elmax are pretty much universally good for everything except a few very specialized applications.

If the knife is for serious use, price should seldom be a consideration. If you are using an Edge-Pro, Wicked-Edge, or if you're a good free hand sharpener, ease of sharpening should not be a consideration. Above all, "COOL FACTOR" should never be a consideration.
 
Sadden said:
I tend to prefer simpler steels with finer grain structures.

I stay away from the supersteel flavors of the month. Sure I prefer some steels over others (no love for s30v here...) but in the end its all steel , and I can tailor any of them to my own uses. Even ceramic.
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I see myself gravitating in the same direction, in realizing which steels are currently my favorites (1095, 420HC, Sandvik). All of them have very fine, to extremely fine grain, and are also very, very easy to make sharp and maintain in that condition. Almost worry-free for me, and that's worth an awful lot.

Alacrity said:
So with these high end steels does heat treat matter more than with lower end steels? Or is heat treat just always super important?

Thanks for all the input guys! Keep it coming. It's giving me a new perspective.

Alacrity
Click to expand...

Strigamort said:
HT is always important. Grain refinement alone is important.

Take a look at the edge retention thread in the Reviews forum. A couple of steels from custom makers went way beyond the same steel from production companies.
Click to expand...

:thumbup:
With literally any blade steel, competent heat treat is always important; edge retention & grain size (therefore toughness & edge fineness) depend on it. And great heat treat is awesome. I realized this in comparing ease of sharpening and edge retention with 1095, 420HC, 440C and VG-10 from different makers of production knives. One maker, to remain unnamed, left me disappointed; their 1095 was too soft to hold a decent edge. Another maker (Schrade USA) has produced my all-time favorite blades in 1095. I've never seen such perfect combination of ease of sharpening, razor-edge retention and springy temper in one blade. I wish every maker could make them this way.

Differences due to heat treat can also be seen in 420HC from Case and Buck. Same applies to differences in 440C from Boker and Buck. In both comparisons, Buck has treated their blades to higher RC, and the difference is noticeable. I like Case's 420HC (a.k.a. 'Tru-Sharp' stainless by another name), because it's SO VERY EASY to sharpen and maintain sharp on even the simplest of tools. Being somewhat lower RC than Buck's blades of the same steel, Case's blades need a little more work in cleaning up burrs, which tend to be very ductile and clingy on their blades. Buck's burrs clean up easier, due to higher hardness, but their blades otherwise sharpen up and cut very similarly to Case's. Both will take wickedly fine edges, which make great slicing blades. Additionally, I've also noticed the same tendencies with VG-10, which can produce some real PITA burrs at slightly lower hardness, but really sings at just a couple RC points higher.


David
 
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