How much does steel matter to you?

[Krav]

I'm into sprint runs now, not sure how much better the steels are, but it slows me down from buying lots of knives..

I believe the resale value on exotic steels will hold more, sprint runs.

 

[james terrio]

I would love to know what you consider the select few excellent steels!

I like CPM-3V, CTS-XHP and Elmax very, very much. There are others that may be as good or better, I just haven't had the chance to try them yet.

I am curious as to your opinion on HT. Do you know companies that heat treat much better than others? Which companies?

Most of the American-made stuff is pretty darn good. As David mentioned, Case and Buck are great examples of a companies that take a fairly middle-of-road steel (420HC) and really bring out the best in it with excellent (although different) HT processes. If you find out that a company is using Bos or Peters' for their HT, you can be pretty confident it's done right. :thumbup:

HT is always important. Grain refinement alone is important.

Take a look at the edge retention thread in the Reviews forum. A couple of steels from custom makers went way beyond the same steel from production companies.

That's all true. Production companies have to be concerned about wear and tear on their grinding equipment, so they generally don't push steels to the higher hardness levels that many custom makers are willing to deal with.

I'm a big fine of fine grain structure, too. But it should be noted that many people really enjoy D2 specifically for it's relatively coarse structure and large carbides, which help it achieve and maintain an aggressive, toothy edge. Again, "basic" D2 is pretty good, but D2 HT'ed carefully (think Bob Dozier) is really good.

 

[Ben Dover]

but D2 HT'ed carefully (think Bob Dozier) is really good.

[/B]


Bob Dozier's D-2 is made with black magic!

 

[james terrio]

Bob Dozier's D-2 is made with black magic!

Nope, science. The guy uses the right hardening temperatures and knows how to deal with retained austenite in his quenching and tempering processes, that's all.

 

[Alacrity]

So question,

Wouldn't it be more time efficient in the long run to buy a steel that needs to be sharpened less and is stronger than a steel that's easy to sharpen but needs to be sharpened often?

I'm curious about opinions on this one.

Alacrity

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

So question,

Wouldn't it be more time efficient in the long run to buy a steel that needs to be sharpened less and is stronger than a steel that's easy to sharpen but needs to be sharpened often?

I'm curious about opinions on this one.

Alacrity

My preference leans toward using & maintaining steels that can be easily sharpened with widely-available tools and/or materials. This is why I like steels like 1095 or 420HC for EDC and typical-use tasks. Either of these steels can be re-bevelled with virtually any abrasive, from a piece of sandstone found on the ground (I've used this on 420HC, and it worked great), to sandpaper purchased at Walmart or any home improvement center. Even if it requires more frequent touching up, I feel there's less to worry about this way, rather than running into the scenario where my 'supersteel' blade needs work, but the proper tools may not be conveniently at hand to do so. No worries about forgetting to put a diamond hone in the pocket or car or toolkit, in order to properly repair a damaged or overworked edge on something like S30V.

This isn't to say that I don't like to carry or use more advanced & wear-resistant steels. When it's convenient to do so, I do sometimes have a couple of DMT 'credit card' diamond hones in-pocket, and they'd be useful for a quick touch-up on something like one of my Queen folders in D2, or a Sebenza in S30V. But even when I have one of those knives in-pocket, I still carry my Schrade 8OT (1095) as my 'primary' EDC, at least. If I knew I could only carry one, it'd be the Schrade in 1095. For ease of maintenance, that one responds beautifully to stropping on the inside face of my leather belt, with some green compound. My Case and/or Buck folders in 420HC also like that combination for touch-ups, as do both of my Opinels in 'carbone' XC90 steel and Sandvik 12C27Mod stainless.


David

 

[HwangJino]

Not much, unless its my work knives (sushi). Carbon all the way.

with folders, I have never needed edge retention or super thin edge holding abilities, thats all hobby.

 

[james terrio]

Wouldn't it be more time efficient in the long run to buy a steel that needs to be sharpened less and is stronger than a steel that's easy to sharpen but needs to be sharpened often?

I'm absolutely convinced of this, yes. Many others are not.

It just depends on whom you ask. Some guys like sharpening knives often... the thrill wore off for me a lonnnnng time ago.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

I'm absolutely convinced of this, yes. Many others are not.

It just depends on whom you ask. Some guys like sharpening knives often... the thrill wore off for me a lonnnnng time ago.

On that note, about 95% of my maintenance doesn't involve sharpening per se, but just stropping instead. With the simpler steels, this is often enough to very quickly restore the hair-whittling bite I like, to an edge; sometimes the supersteels demand a little more attention to get it there and keep it there (harder/larger carbides take a little more work). So long as I stay ahead of it, actual sharpening on coarser abrasives doesn't need to be done very often. And when it does, it gets done with the same exact edge-trailing stroke. This is part of the reason I like sharpening on sandpaper, as it involves exactly the same muscle memory. Great way to keep the hands tuned up to the process.

This isn't to say I don't still enjoy it, however. I find it quite therapeutic, and I find myself always trying to coax just a little more out of every edge; even with my 'supersteel' blades that don't necessarily need the attention. With these steels and my own habits, I don't think I'd buy myself much in reduced sharpening time anyway. I look at it as accepting more frequent touch-ups on simpler steels, done with less work each time, versus less frequent touch-ups on more wear-resistant steels, requiring more work each time.


David

 

[james terrio]

I spoke with brevity in mind. I do understand the differences between sharpening and honing (and the differences between doing either with simple steels and "super" steels). Regardless, the bloom is off the rose... the need to do less of either is a huge plus in my book.

The difficulty of touching up high hardness/high carbide steels is largely overblown, and often the fault of poor geometry (edges way too thick and not acute enough for their intended use). There's no point in using highly wear-resistant, high toughness steels if one is going to grind them like jackhammer bits. That's a waste of expensive steel, and just makes them ridiculously difficult to get and keep sharp.

 

[Fanglekai]

Low carbide steels are far easier to maintain than high carbide steels. Imagine damaging a knife in S110V. Have fun sharpening out the chips. With a knife in 1095 it takes far, far less time to maintain the edge. 30 seconds here, 30 seconds there.

 

[b money]

Although new to this forum, I follow knives enough to know what I like. And for me that is steels that take time to hone or sharpen but stay sharp for awhile. I use my EDC knife at work in a grocery store extensively cutting everything from plastic wrap, to boxes, to corn and cabbage. So much so that it was just a routine to re-hone a 8CR14MOV blade nightly and re-hone a Sandvik 14C28N blade every 2-3 days max. Granted I will not carry a knife unless it is shaving sharp. Both of these knives where $30-$50ish, then I stepped up and bought a benchmade griptillion in D2 at about $125. And after the same use as my other knives I only re-hone the grip every 1 1/2-2weeks. from my limited experiance D2 can be made extreamly sharp and it HOLDS a great edge. So far I'm a D2 fan for my EDC.

 

[Omega Leather Works]

So question,

Wouldn't it be more time efficient in the long run to buy a steel that needs to be sharpened less and is stronger than a steel that's easy to sharpen but needs to be sharpened often?

I'm curious about opinions on this one.

Alacrity

That's exactly why I bought knives with super steels years ago. Once they dulled the super kinda went away in my eyes. Then I discovered that sharpening is its own hobby that I really enjoyed. Like OWE, I mainly strop to *maintain* my edges and don't let them dull for the most part.

As I mentioned above, m4 is a great do-it-all steel. In my experience it will hold an edge for a long time, yet still respond well to stropping in between sharpening.

James- I think that you, as a knifemaker, are subject to more actual sharpening (not to mention the application of secondary bevels from scratch) than many of us. It's no wonder that sharpening may lose its magic.

On the other hand, several here sharpen as a business, or side job.

I guess it just depends on the person.

Either way I'm smitten with carbon steels, and generally prefer them and their sharpening attributes.

 

[james terrio]

James- I think that you, as a knifemaker, are subject to more actual sharpening (not to mention the application of secondary bevels from scratch) than many of us. It's no wonder that sharpening may lose its magic.

That's very true, but I feel the same way when I'm working in the yard or camping or fishing or...

 

[Salt]

Before lurking this forum blade steel meant little to me. I had two categories, cheap and good. I now realize why I liked knives more than others in the past.

My favorite, go-to knife at the moment is my BM Grip. I can beat that knife to hell and easily put an edge on it (and I suck at sharpening knives). My most expensive knife is a Benchmade 930 Kulgera. It has the s30v blade and I dislike it. I understand it has great properties but I just don't have the time/patience/skill to put an awesome edge back on it...... Which is why it's for sale on another forum

 

[Omega Leather Works]

Salt, which steel is your Grip in?

Somehow I've managed to dodge s30v from BKC, but I'm not a fan of Spydercos. If your Grip is 154cm that makes sense to me. I really like how they do it.

 

[Salt]

It's whatever is standard. 154cm

 

[Alacrity]

Story time!

Just reprofiled my Elmax hinderer ZT. Man, that was a pain. I used diamond rods on the sharpmaker, and it still took quite a bit of time to sharpen down the shoulders. I also messed up and got lazy with my angle (a feat on a fixed angle sharpening system...don't laugh too hard..) and scuffed up one side in a couple spots. I dont mind too terribly because this was a gift from my father and it would be the last to go if I ever had to sell my knives, the scuffs will eventually blend in and give character. Live and learn right?

Anyways I digress, after the painful couple hours of reprofiling down to 15 degrees per side (again, beginner here...It took some time) then throwing on a microbevel and hitting the medium stones this thing is BAD. As soon as i hit the microbevel with the medium stones to finish off (i prefer toothier edges) this thing was taking the hair off my arm and leaving it smooth. Just awesome. I then hit the leather belt and it was just scary how nice it got. It's definitely a toothy edge because its not the smoothest shaver but man its exactly what I want. I was really starting to doubt my "super steel" fascination until I started cutting with this. The edge grips nicely (dont worry David I made sure to deburr ) while still slicing through quickly. Its awesome and it gave me new love for this knife.

All that's left is a strop, I purchased a flexxx strop to start, and get some more confidence freehanding. I have a DMT that I've used but dont feel quite confident enough to use my nicer knives on it.

So quick summary, elmax is fantastic once you put the work in and in my small (but growing) experience thats all a super steel needs. A little effort and work that ends up paying out huge in the end.

Feel free to discuss this! and please dont feel shy about hitting me with advice if anything I said seems wrong. I chose my username for a reason

Thanks,

Alacrity

 

[james terrio]

I'm glad, but not surprised, that you're pleased. The really good news is, next time it won't take nearly as long since you now have the edge angles where you like them

 

[David Martin]

Yes, I rebeveled my 110 with S30V steel to 15* on Norton's JUM-3 stone (SIC) and it took me 2hrs.. Even though this is a large 11.5"X2.5" stone. Whether it's worth it is an individual preference. It does cut better. DM