How much energy per day?

I'm older, and don't move as fast or as far as I used to, in a given time frame. I also don't carry as much on my back these days.
Hiking in Florida, or even when up in Virginia on the AT, my experience indicates that I need about 3800 calories.
 
You can calculate it here:

http://firstyear.chem.usyd.edu.au/calculators/food_energy.shtml

Special Forces soldiers need about 4000 kcal per day.

http://www.the-aps.org/press/conference/eb/22.htm

So if you are planning a high intensity trip or want to know your energy need in a real survival enviroment ( food and wood gathering, cold and wet, sheltermaking etc) 4000 kcal would be a good starting point.

As a side note it was shown that studies by U.S., German, Israely and soviet forces engaged in desert combat an average of 8,5 liter of fluid intake was needed to keep their soldiers hydrated.
 
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Jim malone said:
As a side note it was shown that studies by U.S., German, Israely and soviet forces engaged in desert combat an average of 8,5 liter of fluid intake was needed to keep their soldiers hydrated.
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in the high desert here in Idaho I drink almost 3 liters of water an hour. No shade, no clouds, just 95 degrees of direct sunlight and miles upon miles upon miles of endless foothills. When I was stationed both in Florida and Texas I drank at least that during training exercizes and 2-3 3liter camelback bladders a day when goatroaping around. And while 4,000 calories a day may sustain you long term, there is no WAY you are going to get your hands on that much food in a combat environment, much less have the time to eat it. In long engagements you have to count on your metabolism slowing down-way, way down.
 
Hi PayetteRucker,
that's a ton of water! At that quantity, did you experience hyponatremia, or did your diet compensate for that?
 
From my time as a Food Scientist and Army Officer, Soldiers in combat (similar calorie output to heavy hiking) are given at least 3600 kCal per day. MREs are about 1200 each. In the arctic, the calorie requirement goes up to 4500.
 
If you are looking for a good fat source, consider coconut oil. It is full of MCT's, a kind of fat that is easier to burn for energy. It is also quite tasty and makes a great lip balm/moisture barrier.
 
beef said:
Hi PayetteRucker,
that's a ton of water! At that quantity, did you experience hyponatremia, or did your diet compensate for that?
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it varies from person to person.........

when i worked as a groundsman for a tree climber, we were in Lilloet BC on summer dropping some trees. 49 deg celsuis no wind and I was wearing 12 ply kevlar chainsaw pants. We drank a gallon of water an hour and did not urinate the entire day , not until about 2 am. even then our urine was was extremely dark orange. We kept on drinking water and by morning it was back to pale yellow.

we compensated for the amount of water by adding a teaspoon of sea salt to each gallon of water.
 
Old CW4 said:
Temperature and activity has a huge impact. When I went through Army mountain school a lot of years ago, we were issued four person's worth of rations daily out in the cold and still stayed hungry and lost weight. The main lesson they taught was that even a properly clothed human starved to death quickly in even moderate cold unless you had ample food (fuel) for your internal 'stove.' I've read that Eskimos seal hunting on the ice pack will eat as much as ten pounds of seal blubber in a day, that's 16,000 to 18,000calories! If you're hiking over rough country in the cold or even cool, I'd plan on packing lots of extra high calorie food. For your situation in moderate weather, I'd pack at least 3,500 cals for each day and have the equipment to sleep warm at night. Even in summer 'out there' the nights can get downright cold.
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I work outside year round. Some times 12 hour days 7 days a week. I work hard. I don't loose a ton of weight in winter and I don't eat double what I do in the summer. There is no way this is accurate.
 
A lot depends on your individual metabolism, I remember working at 20°F in a t-shirt, and staying warm.
 
beef said:
Hi PayetteRucker,
that's a ton of water! At that quantity, did you experience hyponatremia, or did your diet compensate for that?
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you sweat it all out, or piss it out-not kidding, it's so dry here your sweat evaporates almost instantly. Sucks all the moisture straight from your body. And if you aren't on top of covering your lips every few hours you are going to have one sore mouth real fast.
PS, I'm no sweater, either-I'm definately a cold temperature oriented person though, I have been working 12 hour days lately in 20 degree weather in a teeshirt and canvas pants. When a 7% humidity day is considered muggy you know you're in a dry environment.
 
AC1: At mountain school, it was 20 to 30 below during the day and down to 45 and 50 below at night. We were in the snow 24/7 at 10,000 feet. On snow shoes and/or skis during the day packing weapons and equipment and dug into a snowcave at night. Guarantee you, if you don't eat thousands of calories a day, you freeze and die. As for the Eskimo seal hunters on the ice pack, they're out in 40 to 60 below temps with windchills down to minus 100 or even more. You'd last minutes in a t-shirt and canvas pants no matter how cold natured you are. Your turn.....
 
This is an interestng thread.
On one of the calculators, i entered 6 hours and 8 hours hike time. At 6, it was 2855 and jump to 8 and was 3815. Quite a jump for an extra two hours. Maybe your body burns cals at a faster rate after sustained exercise?
 
Skytorn said:
Hi, I'm wondering how much energy on average is needed by a person per day, when camping with a bit of hiking thrown in, given summer weather (rain unlikely) and carrying tools and supplies for a 3-day outing into the wilderness.

I'm planning a trip, see, and trying to figure out how much food I'll need to bring. Each day we burn about 2000kJ just doing mundane stuff and I hazarded a wild guess that camping & hiking will expend twice as much, or 4000kJ. Is that about right?

Thanks!
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Back to the OP's post,
"how much food to bring"

Looking at his plan for the trip,that really isnt much
different than an active person living at home.
A little hiking,lounging around camp,maybe fishing,exploring...

Bring 3 meals a day if you can,snacks,and maybe some
energy gels for long hikes.
We can only assimilate 200-300 calories per hour while exercising.
Eating gels or other easily digestible foods while doing strenuous
activity will enhance stamina and ward off muscle fatigue.

I think my earlier post is valid and on point.

fugawee said:
Monitor your intake for a few days while
daily living at home . Figure out what your caloric intake is.
Youll probably consume about the same amount or slightly more
on the trail unless you live a really sedentary life with not much
physical activity.(in which case youll need quite a bit more)

Anyway,you will just be looking for the same amount
of calories in a different form. Mountain House freeze dried,
jerky,ramen noodles ,energy gels etc etc.
Some people like to eat,others eat when they need to.
By monitoring yourself you will know what a glutton you are ;)
If your well fed and hydrated before you start your trip.
you may surprise yourself on what you can do with minimal food stuffs.
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Anyway,for a fun 3 days worth of fun camping,bring what you wanna
eat. I am always hungry and would bring a lot of food and snacks :)


(a side note,if you can research ahead of time
see what wild edibles are available to forage. that might supplement what your carrying.
Once while camping in Wisconsin,we happened upon a farm and were allowed to harvest
some fantastic corn on the cobb. man,fresh,sweet,roasted corn on the cobb...great stuff!
other times we happen upon berries,apples etc...)
 
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Magnussen said:
I have read all the resources, spoke to a nutritionist and it all makes sense...

... until ...

I go on a winter survival course... eat less than 2000 cal/day... drink atleast 8-10L/day of water .... and not lose a pound. What gives?

As of today I weigh 208lbs. I am leaving for a 5day Winter Training Session this weekend.

My food.
(1) can of spam 1080cal
(1) pack of spicy beef ramman 190cal
(2) 8 squares of homemade trail bread about 1600cal total
(1) pack, 7oz of jerky at about 600cal total
(2) cans of sardines 300cal total
(1) 6oz bag of trail mix about 900cal total
(2) Cliff bars 500cal total
(6) packets of hot chocolate 660cal total

Grand total 9600cal over 5 full days = 1920cal/day

-25C average temps, no sleeping bag, no tent, lots of scouting, lots of work.... Beef's calculator (above) says I need 3224cal/day to maintain my weight.

I'll keep track of any game I catch while in the field.

I'll give a final report on Saturday before I hit McDonalds, that is.... lol... wish me luck.


Rick
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Sorry for not following up.... the subscribtions were deleted as you are probably aware....

So this is how it went down......

Day 1 - Setting up the Safe Site. A couple handfulls of trailmix, some beef jerky and hot chocolate - maybe 400 cal total

Day 2 - Tracking the porcupine. Nothing but tea and nibbling balsam buds and elder catkins - probably not even 100 cal. I was asked by my mentor not to eat my ration in respect for the intended kill.

Day 3 - More tracking and scouting. No food all day... finally my mentor was convinced that the porcupine had moved on and allowed me to eat that night. I had 1 tin of sardines, some beef jerky, some hot chocolate and a bit of trail bread. About 700cal total.

Day 4 - Camp craft, scouting and survival skills. I spent the night outdoors in -36C in a quickie 1hr shelter. No food that night... but I did have some jerky uring the day.... 200 cal tops.

Day 5 - Camp teardown.... no food.... left at around 10am.... had 2 Tim Horton's breakfast sandwiches for the 9hr ride home.

Results----

I felt really good, strong, well rested. After a total of 1400 calories and 2 sandwiches over 5days... I weighed exactly the same as I did when I left.

Explain that one to me?


Rick
 
Bushman5 said:
+1

i have a hyper metabolism, throw in strenuous hiking, or rock climbing like i used to or cold winter woods slogging, and it is not uncommon for me to consume 8000 - 10000+ calories a day (when active, not at home) . Dried sausages, cheese, tuna packed in oil, peanut butter etc etc are all calorie rich, energy dense, LONG TERM fuels that really keep you going. (and warm too in winter).

takes some experimentation, but its pretty easy to figure out what you need foodwise. Then add another 1000+ calories. :cool:
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10000 a day? I think your way off. No offense, but a marathon burns about 3200 calories. I dont think you run 2 and a half marathons plus base metabolism in a day. If your consuming that much, your gaining a lot of poundage...
 
Magnussen said:
Sorry for not following up.... the subscribtions were deleted as you are probably aware....

So this is how it went down......

Day 1 - Setting up the Safe Site. A couple handfulls of trailmix, some beef jerky and hot chocolate - maybe 400 cal total

Day 2 - Tracking the porcupine. Nothing but tea and nibbling balsam buds and elder catkins - probably not even 100 cal. I was asked by my mentor not to eat my ration in respect for the intended kill.

Day 3 - More tracking and scouting. No food all day... finally my mentor was convinced that the porcupine had moved on and allowed me to eat that night. I had 1 tin of sardines, some beef jerky, some hot chocolate and a bit of trail bread. About 700cal total.

Day 4 - Camp craft, scouting and survival skills. I spent the night outdoors in -36C in a quickie 1hr shelter. No food that night... but I did have some jerky uring the day.... 200 cal tops.

Day 5 - Camp teardown.... no food.... left at around 10am.... had 2 Tim Horton's breakfast sandwiches for the 9hr ride home.

Results----

I felt really good, strong, well rested. After a total of 1400 calories and 2 sandwiches over 5days... I weighed exactly the same as I did when I left.

Explain that one to me?


Rick
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Sounds like a great trip! :D

I'd like to do something like that, only not so cold and tracking something that can't impale me :p As for your weight, maybe you gained muscle from hiking around while your body burned the fat trying to stay warm :confused: Just a thought, ya never know.
 
You wouldn't have gained muscle if you didn't have the extra calories to build it. Muscle has to be made of something.

I think you're just a scientific anomalie!
 
I'm no marathon runner but I've had friends/acquaintances who are or were. Their standard technique was to load up on calories and heavy on the carbs for a week or more preceeding a 26 miler. One guy I knew used to eat huge plates of spaghetti plus giant portions of mashed potatos with butter before his races. He said he'd gain six to eight pounds in a week and then lose all of it by the time the race was over.

I think estimating 3000 to 4000 calories for a say 150 pound human to run 26 miles in two to three hours is on the scanty side. There's some serious calorie burning involved in running for two plus hours at a 12 mph pace. Wow! Like I said, I'm no runner but I have competed in all day karate tournaments consisting of five or six separate bouts and recall getting the shakes and being weak from hunger by the last match of the day. Same with having to swim long distances in cold water, you really burn the cals.

And IMHO Bushman 5's comments about consuming 8000 to 10000 cals a day in cold weather are accurate. I mentioned Army mountain/cold weather school in a previous post to this thread and we ate every damned scrap they would give us and were still hungry even though they fed us 10,000 cals per day. BTW, I lost about 15 pounds during that damned course.
 
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