How much extra do you charge for "rares"?

Ken H> said:
John, if you look close at that wood there doesn't seem to be much figure in that wood. As far as buying your wood and having it stabilized by K&G, that's always a good choice if you've got plenty of wood. Just a small piece of wood is usually pretty expensive to have stabilized, but if you've got 10 lb or so it becomes more reasonable priced.

Oh, here's a way to make a short link to ebay items: http://www.ebay.com/itm/111612880369?

See how I checked the link? You can also do a similar thing with Amazon links.

Ken H>
Click to expand...

I'm probably more interested in what will happen if I try to split a 30+ year old piece of koa, This guy has 5 pieces for sale that he bought years ago from a merchant marine, Will it wind up looking like Elmer Fudds shot gun after Buggs shoves a carrot in the barrel or will it stay straight

Thanks for the link tip, I guess because Vbulletin automatically shortens the link when displayed in the thread, I have never given much thought to how long the links are that I copy and paste, On a side note, because eBay doesn't allow sellers to send clickable links to customers, I often use tinyurl to make things simple for folks, a surprising number of people don't know how to copy and paste links into their browsers address bar, I also spend a fair amount of time coaching people through the checkout process, Especially old folks with Ipads and tablets, It seems eBay mobile has limited functionality when purchasing multiple items
 
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well splitting that koa is no longer a concern, all 5 listing were ended...reason, item is no longer available...seems someone made an offer to purchase the wood outside of ebay ;0)
 
Ian You are correct that good Koa is getting very difficult to get.
I have some requests out there and am waiting to hear back.
I get a lot of the collectors buying the really good blocks and they are paying what it takes to get the good stuff so don't be shy about pricing your knives with the best wood accordingly.
Another wood that is a good alternative to Koa is Tasmanian Blackwood. Unless you know which is which, you can't tell them apart.
But.....good luck finding the good figured stuff. The only way I got any was from an Australian knife maker's personal stash (thank you Adam).
Be careful buying on ebay. A lot of them are selling fresh cut wood so you have to account for drying time and then get it stabilize.
JMForge made a comment about wood selling fast. I am doing more wood than last year but the really good stuff is selling out within a few hours. I am wondering if the ivory ban has the high end knives using high grade wood now.
 
I was wondering why all the wood from Mark was selling out before I even opened the email . The Time zone !! The west coast guys have a head start !
 
I wanted to quote everyone, but it would get a bit messy so I'll just respond.

The gidgee is a good option as a koa alternative, I'm definitely planning on a buy of that. It's still under the radar right now.

I'm not sure what the cause of this is... I mean I haven't been a full time maker for long, but I can tell that the current market is unusual. I am not sure exactly what is driving it.

Burl Source said:
Ian You are correct that good Koa is getting very difficult to get.
I have some requests out there and am waiting to hear back.
I get a lot of the collectors buying the really good blocks and they are paying what it takes to get the good stuff so don't be shy about pricing your knives with the best wood accordingly.
Another wood that is a good alternative to Koa is Tasmanian Blackwood. Unless you know which is which, you can't tell them apart.
But.....good luck finding the good figured stuff. The only way I got any was from an Australian knife maker's personal stash (thank you Adam).
Be careful buying on ebay. A lot of them are selling fresh cut wood so you have to account for drying time and then get it stabilize.
JMForge made a comment about wood selling fast. I am doing more wood than last year but the really good stuff is selling out within a few hours. I am wondering if the ivory ban has the high end knives using high grade wood now.
Click to expand...

The frustrating thing for me is not so much that the great blocks are expensive, it's that people have become so desperate to the point of paying anything for anything, that I feel like the entire market is upset. It's kind of like the real estate bubble... people were paying 3x what a house is actually worth in my area.

All I know is that the demand is FAR outstripping the supply, and this is all within the last year or so I feel. I'm not sure what is driving it.

For instance, Mark, I've been trying to buy from you for months, but I never seem to have good timing, even now that I've got the newsletter going to the correct email. The other afternoon, I got the email at 3:48 (don't know if that was the exact time), and got on to your site at 3:52 and almost half the blocks were sold already. I mean, it's gotten so bad that no working maker can compete against whoever it is that is constantly hovering waiting for blocks to be posted. When stuff is selling out in a matter of minutes, how is a guy that's spending 2 or 3 hour stretches at a grinder supposed to keep up?

I am thrilled for you that business is so strong, but for the guys like me that are just trying to make a living and be able to buy the materials we need to do so, it stinks. I've been spending so much time trying to hunt for suitable quality materials, the competition against other buyers is getting so strong, that it is causing serious disruption to my business.


Anyone who has watched my work knows that I am a lover of beautiful figured and burl woods, and I do everything I can to work in the very best... but it has gotten so bad that I am seriously considering switching to tacticals, which sell for top dollar, and use cheap and super easy to get materials such as g10 and micarta... even carbon fiber is dirt cheap when you look at the reduced time cost vs. finding something like Koa or ironwood. It's sad because I love figured woods and would work in nothing else, but I won't work in them if I'm not able to source them to my standards.

One year ago, as long as you were willing to take a hit here and there on cost, you could work in just about any wood you want without trouble. Now, even the "standard" stuff such as maple and buckeye are blowing out the doors. I've started buying and processing my own buckeye and maple burl slabs and caps because the stock on finished blocks is so sporadic and will not support the amount of business I have, regardless of the cost.



In my opinion, at least a portion of this is due to a run on the market caused by a panic among makers trying to secure enough material for the coming year's work. I'm hoping once all these people freaking out and going bananas and buying every piece they can get run out of money, the market will stabilize a little, but I could be dead wrong and it could never be any better than this for the immediate future.
 
A lot of the reason for the price is because so much of the good burl and figured stuff is all gone. We used to have guys show up with truck loads of burl to sell us weekly or more often. Those days are long gone. It is a super small percentage of the trees that will have any burl or figure. Some of the woods we used to take for granted are just not available anymore. A lot of what you see these days is stuff that was put aside years ago and forgotten.
 
Mark, part of it is that you are now an internationally famous purveyor of fine timber products and you know that I am not joking when I say internationally famous. You appear to be a victim of your own quality control and top notch customer service, I fear. :D
Burl Source said:
Ian You are correct that good Koa is getting very difficult to get.
I have some requests out there and am waiting to hear back.
I get a lot of the collectors buying the really good blocks and they are paying what it takes to get the good stuff so don't be shy about pricing your knives with the best wood accordingly.
Another wood that is a good alternative to Koa is Tasmanian Blackwood. Unless you know which is which, you can't tell them apart.
But.....good luck finding the good figured stuff. The only way I got any was from an Australian knife maker's personal stash (thank you Adam).
Be careful buying on ebay. A lot of them are selling fresh cut wood so you have to account for drying time and then get it stabilize.
JMForge made a comment about wood selling fast. I am doing more wood than last year but the really good stuff is selling out within a few hours. I am wondering if the ivory ban has the high end knives using high grade wood now.
Click to expand...
 
We are seeing the same thing with stuff like stag. A number of the knife suppliers have either gotten out of that biz are are trying to. You can still find some nice carvers but they are typically over $100 for the stuff that i was getting for like $25-35 a few years back from the nice India couple at Blade. About the only material that I can get pretty much on demand today, albeit at high prices, in about any size is pre-ban elephant ivory, but we know where that market is headed. I can also get amboyna burl and straighter grained pre- CITES old growth Brazilian rosewood from the same source in limited, not always useful for knives sizes, but all of that stuff has been in the US for a LONG time like 40 plus years in the case of the rosewood. Perhaps the only reason that the rosewood is still around is that it was cut into 1.5 x 1.5 sticks for custom pool cues instead of a size that could be used for things like guitar fingerboards. :(
 
billf said:
Ian

sent you a PM

Bill
Click to expand...

Ok thanks Bill, I replied (well, typing it on my phone back and forth as I type this :))

Burl Source said:
A lot of the reason for the price is because so much of the good burl and figured stuff is all gone. We used to have guys show up with truck loads of burl to sell us weekly or more often. Those days are long gone. It is a super small percentage of the trees that will have any burl or figure. Some of the woods we used to take for granted are just not available anymore. A lot of what you see these days is stuff that was put aside years ago and forgotten.
Click to expand...

Hehe, I'm slowly accepting the reality of the situation, but nothing a good gripe can't help smooth over. :D

Hopefully I didn't come off as too negative in my post, that has just been the reality on the frontlines for me at least, and I've heard grumblings from other makers (not about you specifically, just the supply situation in general). I think maybe it's not as bad for the vets that have hearty or even downright envious stashes, but I just haven't been around long enough to amass enough stock to be a buffer to this type of thing. Kinda wish I'd gotten into this sooner.

Even though I haven't managed to snag any in a while, it's just been bad timing on my part, and high demand on everyone elses. I appreciate that you've been making a big effort to do your best to help us all out by bringing in as much as you can, and trying to price them within reason without having everything blow out the doors right at listing (which they are still doing sometimes anyways). I'm sure you could list your blocks for a good bit more and still have plenty strong sales.

I could imagine that you've been working triple or quadruple time to bring us the best you can and the most you can considering the conditions.

Somewhat luckily for me, My main wood is buckeye burl, and it doesn't seem to have any major supply troubles yet. I'm not sure if it's not in fashion as much any more, or is just in really good supply, or the feeding frenzy just hasn't gone that low down the totem pole yet.


jdm61 said:
We are seeing the same thing with stuff like stag. A number of the knife suppliers have either gotten out of that biz are are trying to. You can still find some nice carvers but they are typically over $100 for the stuff that i was getting for like $25-35 a few years back from the nice India couple at Blade. About the only material that I can get pretty much on demand today, albeit at high prices, in about any size is pre-ban elephant ivory, but we know where that market is headed. I can also get amboyna burl and straighter grained pre- CITES old growth Brazilian rosewood from the same source in limited, not always useful for knives sizes, but all of that stuff has been in the US for a LONG time like 40 plus years in the case of the rosewood. Perhaps the only reason that the rosewood is still around is that it was cut into 1.5 x 1.5 sticks for custom pool cues instead of a size that could be used for things like guitar fingerboards. :(
Click to expand...

I'm actually a huge fan of stag, ivory, etc., but the huge constant attack it's under is making me shy away from investing it into my knifemaking style, because I fear it may go away. It's a bummer too because I feel many of these materials can be responsibly used and be terrific economic boons to everyone involved with little to no harm, and possibly even great benefit to animal species as a whole.
 
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OK....I will give away one of my secrets for finding old burl slabs.
Craig's List. Search for burl tables.
Sometimes you can find an old burl coffee table from the 60s and 70s.
I have cut up many an old table into blocks and trimmed away the 1/4" thick resin finish.
I even bought and cut up an old curly redwood door one time.

Most people only see it as a funky old table that someone wants to sell for $500.
But you might be getting a couple thousand dollars worth of old burl.
 
Oh man, I found a stunning vintage maple burl table for $300, but someone beat me to it. I'm gonna be on that sucker like white on rice if one comes again...
 
wonder how many scales you could get from a book matched curly maple guitar blank for 35 bucks :0)
 
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