How much is that doggie in the window?

[Codger_64]

Just wanted to say a few words about the adoption fees charged by breed-specific rescues. Yes, $250 may sound like a lot of money. And yes, you can get a dog at the city pound for $30. But the rescues often spend a tremendous amount of money making sure their dogs are ready for adoption - grooming; check ups and blood tests; rabies shots; treating for worms, fleas, heartworm; dental work; everyday care and feeding; and often even surgery.

If that $30 dog from the pound tests positive for heartworm the "savings" disappears real fast.

The breed rescues sometimes have 'discounts' for senior dogs, if that would interest you, since the older dogs have a harder time getting adopted. Other times the rescues can't afford to offer "senior discounts" since older dogs often need more vet care prior to adoption.

I've done both, rescue and pound, with no regrets and would do either again. I probably wouldn't buy from a breeder though, since there are so many dogs already needing homes. Bloodlines and pedigrees don't interest me much; as long as the dog is a "good boy" or "pretty girl" we're going to get along fine.

In the meantime, have you considered volunteering to foster a rescue dog?

Good luck in your quest, Codger.

I agree, the rescues often spend a large amount of money on the animals. But then, by their restrictive polices, they do the dogs a great disservice in making the "re homing" process so onerous that few people are willing to undergo the investigation, provide references, pay fees and sign a contract agreeing to ongoing home visits, monitoring of veterinary care and allowing the rescue to take the animal back at any time they see fit.

Yes, I considered a rescue dog over a year ago when I first began my search. And recently investigated the same rescues. Lo and behold, they still had the same dogs there, all unadopted after a year or more. Having read their applications and paid an application fee to be considered, and then read their restrictive contracts, I don't wonder why.

I have my reasons for wanting a particular strain of a particular breed for this dog. Likewise, I have my reasons for wanting to own the dog outright with no restrictions on what I can and cannot do with the dog, lest he be "repossessed" because some well-meaning person doesn't understand the actual purpose the breed was bred for, or appreciate that I will have, in a year's time, invested more money and effort in training than they could ever compensate me for. And the 'adoption fee' is non-refundable if they forcibly take the dog back.

Don't get me wrong, I've had many, many 'pound-puppies' in my time. Each one was unique and became a valued companion. But, like the aforementioned purpose-trained dogs I have owned (S&R bloodhounds), this dog is to be a purpose trained service animal, and bloodlines, background are very important. The dog is not going to be a pet. Both State and Federal laws recognize service animals as a special category and specific laws protect them from injury and interference that do not apply to pets. Kill or injure my service animal, or otherwise deprive me of his service and face a felony charge, as well as being held liable for both compensatory and punitive damages.

Another example as to how my dog will be different from a family pet, I can take him into any store, restaurant, doctor's office or other place of business where the public is allowed. I can not be refused a motel room or housing because my service animal accompanies me and cannot be charged extra fees because of him. The same goes for air, bus, taxi and train travel. Notified in advance, most domestic airlines will allow the service animal to fly free... in the cabin with the owner.

No one, when informed that my dog is a service animal, can demand proof of my disability or the dog's training certification. He is not required to be 'dressed' in service animal garb which identifies his training (though most service animal owners do so to forestall rude questions).

All said, within a year, I will have invested hundreds of hours and untold dollars in specialized training and equipment for this dog. It just doesn't make sense to make this kind of investment in an animal carrying a lot of baggage in the form of prior abuse and poor or no training and health care, and sign away my rights to exclusive ownership.

I am willing to discuss the rescue requirements in more detail if you are interested. And kudos for your efforts on behalf of shelter and rescue dogs! :thumbup:

 

[Bob W]

It only cost $500 to get a human baby from the hospital. I can't see spending more than that for a dog. On the other hand, dogs are easier to train and cheaper to keep.

I understand though regarding your desire for a specific breed. Are any of the service dog organizations of use?

Hope you find a suitable companion soon.

 

[Codger_64]

Cost for a service dog from an organization is in the thousands and the wait is up to four years. Reasonable, considering the time and expense of training both dog and owner. I sold my trained bloodhounds for thousands twenty years ago, and that was before they were finished.

A baby for five hundred? Both of mine were well over three grand each and I delivered both! And they both were hard to train and expensive to keep.

No, the pup itself will be in the $500 range. That is before all of the other expenses such as food, equipment and vet bills, though I can do much of the vet work myself (don't tell Mongo! ). Equipment will run another three or four at least for the first year (vest, leads, crate, grooming, etc.). Vet bills will be about five without any emergency care, unless I get insurance which runs about five a year. Food for a year? I won't feed 'Ol Roy', or other inexpensive food to an expensive, active dog. Iams is not cheap and it isn't even the best now like it was in the last quarter of the previous century.

One question from the application from the rescue:

Do you understand that the dog should never be allowed off lead in open places?_______

Now, we are talking about an English setter here. They HAVE to run, at least occasionally. I couldn't run one on a lead for any length of time and don't know many people who could.

They also require that I agree not to ever use the dog to hunt. Ever owned a field setter? Have you ever seen one who didn't want to utilize the instincts bred into them? What is the reasoning behind this requirement? Because they personally don't like hunting? Yeah, I could sign the contract and ignore it, but that isn't how I roll.

They also want personal references and a letter of reference from my vet. I don't go to a vet. I go to an MD. And a letter from my landlord saying that it is OK for me to own my dog. They want pictures of my house, my yard, and my fence. And then there is a schedule of updates from my vet after adoption. They want to tell me how often I take the dog to the vet, and how often I update his shots. Welp, if I give the shots myself, the vet won't be able to tell them, will he? If I change vets, the listed vet will report that I don't have my dog get regular healthcare, one of their reasons for reposession. Having witnessed parvo sweep through a kennel like wildfire, I absolutely will see to it that a dog gets the right immunization as I believe they are needed.
Oops. Perhaps all the above belonged in the W&C forum!

Nah, I am not passionate about my animals and opinionated in their care, not at all!

 

[Bob W]

Those breed rescue groups are all privately owned and each has their own adoption requirements.

I don't get the "no hunting" clause either. Seems like that's what those dogs are for.

We adopted from the New Mexico Collie Rescue years ago. Someone from their group actually drove up to Raton from Santa Fe for a home visit before putting our names on a waiting list. We had a nice visit, and they checked to ensure our yard was secure enough and spacious enough for a large breed dog. I think it's great they don't give away their dogs to just anyone; I can't imagine dooming a collie, regal and kind, to a life on a trailer park chain.

Ironically, if you want to foster a kid from CYFD, I think they just ask "How many can you take?"

 

[Codger_64]

Hmmm.. a hearing service foster kid. Why didn't I think of... nah, too much trouble. I've raised children and grandchildren for more than thirty years. Time for 'someone' who will mind me!

I picked up a second hand pet taxi today (actually a "kennel cab") for cheap, to transport a pup in my truck seat. Expenses have already begun. Should I begin keeping a record for tax deductions? Can I claim him as a dependant? I had a dog once that got mail solicitations for credit cards. Then I was warned to get him a SS#!

EDIT: More setter pron!

 

[Bob W]

I'll see your Setter and raise you Two Collies:

Anybody have three beagles?

 

[Codger_64]

Anybody have three beagles?

Lacy and Joe are beautiful!

At one time I had 24 beagles and did field trials. That was the kennel that got hit with parvo when a 'friend' bought some black and tan pups and I agreed to kennel them for him temporarily. The coon hounds died first. Then I lost half of my beagles and nearly lost my bloodhound, Sasquatch. All, except the coon hounds, had had early parvo shots, but weren't up to date.

 

[Clydetz]

...I live alone. And I am deaf/HOH. So I need both a companion and a hearing service dog...

I'm pretty much in the same boat, Codger... live alone, deaf in both ears and recovering from breast cancer treatments as well. But I'm one up on you... I have a 4-legged companion that hears pretty darn good! :thumbup: He's not a real hearing service dog but Casper the Westie alerts me to what is going on by his expressive eyes, ears and shrill barks (which I can hear). He's in the lower righthand corner of the group picture I made up of all my past stray mutts, purebreds and adoptees. I don't know about you but when I 'lost' my hearing I also lost my 'balance'. At 18 lbs, Casper is just about the right size for keeping me walking in a straight line on our walks.

Best of luck in finding that perfect 4-legged companion. :thumbup:

 

[Codger_64]

I'm pretty much in the same boat, Codger... live alone, deaf in both ears and recovering from breast cancer treatments as well. But I'm one up on you... I have a 4-legged companion that hears pretty darn good! :thumbup: He's not a real hearing service dog but Casper the Westie alerts me to what is going on by his expressive eyes, ears and shrill barks (which I can hear). He's in the lower righthand corner of the group picture I made up of all my past stray mutts, purebreds and adoptees. I don't know about you but when I 'lost' my hearing I also lost my 'balance'. At 18 lbs, Casper is just about the right size for keeping me walking in a straight line on our walks.

Best of luck in finding that perfect 4-legged companion. :thumbup:

Clydetz, "not a real hearing service dog" may not be totally correct. Casper may not be professionally trained as a service dog (hearing and mobility), but it sounds like that is what he does. Many people with disabilities train their own service dogs. In fact, that is exactly what I will be doing myself.

There is a lot of confusion and misinformation about service dogs, and I am still learning about them myself. My own state laws (Tennessee) are very different from the Federal laws. Here, law says my service dog has to be in a harness and on a leash and I have to present credentials from an accredited for training dog guides. Or in the case of D/HOH, credentials from the Tennessee Council For the Deaf And Hard Of Hearing (TCDHH) (a license).

Federal law is quite different and where state and Federal law on this conflict, Federal law is trump. Proof of certification is not required. "Dressing" your dog in a service identifying collar, leash or harness is not required. I would do it just because it will reduce conflicts with businesses that have "no pets" policies. Also, I do not have to explain my disabilities or the dog's role in helping me. I will also carry some cards to hand out which inform people of the Federal laws (under ADA) regarding access with a service dog, and a service dog identification card. Not because I have to, but because most people just don't know.

I will enlist the help of a professional service dog trainer along the way though. You can too. You can also get Casper a vest now if you wish. And you can put specific or generic service dog patches on it or not, as you wish.

I have lost 80% of my hearing. I can still hear some things if they are loud enough. I don't hear my doorbell if I am in another room. I don't hear someone pull up in my drive. I don't hear someone speaking if my back is turned, and if they are close and facing me, I hear about 30% and fill in the blanks with lip-reading. I don't hear my cell phone ring, but feel it vibrate. I hear the same 30% on the cell though, so I loathe using it. I don't always hear sirens and if I do, I can't always tell where the sound is coming from. I do listen to the radio at home and in my truck if no one else is with me, and I have amplified speakers on my computer.

So when this dog is trained, I hope my life will be just a bit easier. And a bit less lonely too. I'll be contacting various professional trainers of service dogs for tips on cues and such. He needs to recognize my name when someone calls it and notify me, then direct me to the speaker. "Show me". The same for when a phone or the doorbell rings.

Hopefully he will be very true to breed and be very biddable. That is a bird dog term meaning that he has an inbred drive to please his master and performs in a predictable way (you can 'bet' on his behavior). This (and my prior experience with the breed) is the main reason I have been so dead-set on this particular breed, and the reason I have been particular about the exact bloodlines.

Regular American English Setters do have some Llewellin Setter bred into their lines to improve them, as well as some Russian and other strains such as the Belgiums of the Mlle Therese a Goes strain. And even these are different from the Bench English Setters which is what most people think of when they hear the breed's name. They are larger, longer heads and deeper chests, have longer hair, and are bred mostly for conformation (looks).

A pic of a Bench English Setter:

By the way, discussions with the breeder continue and the FDSB registered name is to be Hidden Creek Jake, Jake for short. I wonder how he will do on squirrels?

 

[Codger_64]

I drove to Kentucky and back yesterday and remembered why I hate long roadtrips so much. I left home at 5:30 A.M. thinking to sneek thru Nashville early and miss the morning rush hour. WRONG! I was caught in creep-along bumper-to-bumper for thirty minutes. But once I cleared Nashville, it was clear sailing to Bowling Green. AAAAAUUUUGGGHHH!!!! Traffic was four times worse there. Still, I made it to my destination on time, thirty minutes later than planned. The trip back wasn't as bad except for a few crazies in puddlejumpers. One driver decided to yield to another puddlejumper entering from an on-ramp. The other car was yielding also until the car in front of me jammed his brakes and brought me from 70 to 35! Yeah, I missed her rear bumper by four feet, but I did miss her. Jake did not enjoy riding his crate from seat to floorboard, but he seemed to take it in stride.

I met the breeder and his entire kennel, including the sire and dam of my pup. Pup? I brought a small travel crate and he barely fit in it! He is five months old, darn near a teenager. And wild and unsocialized. He fights the lead like a mustang. He slips his collar. But he is, as I had hoped, self housebroken. He kept his travel crate clean the entire trip, eliminating at each rest stop.

I stopped on the way home and picked up a large wire crate from Tractor Supply since it was apparent the travel crate would not do. He kept it clean last night and did his business this morning outside on cue.

Much older and larger than I was expecting, he stands 18" at the shoulder already. I was briefly disappointed that he had attained this age and size with no obedience training and very little socialization, but I think maybe this will work to my advantage. I don't have to "untrain" him, and he is old enough to actually "think" and use logic to solve problems. Already this morning he has learned his first command, "SIT". He learned both "NO" and "ACKK!" (bad) last night. At this rate, he will be doing basic calculus by Christmas!

My daughter is coming over later to bring me a harness and some other goods, and to bath him. He stinks, as most kennel dogs do. I'll have her take a few pics to post here.

 

[Clydetz]

Sounds like you and Jake are hitting it off well! :thumbup: I'm looking forward to seeing your pics of Jake.

I know what you mean about those crates. On any long trips Casper travels in a crate but he hates it! Cries and wimpers between rest stops but he hasn't had any 'accidents' in his crate yet. On short trips around the 'hood Casper prefers to take in the sights sitting on the storage compartment between the bucket seats...

Be very careful, Codger_64... "and he is old enough to actually "think" and use logic to solve problems. Already this morning he has learned his first command, "SIT". He learned both "NO" and "ACKK!" (bad) last night. At this rate, he will be doing basic calculus by Christmas!" Casper caught onto things very quickly... a little too quickly! I caught him online checking out a dog dating service and I had no idea that he even knew what a mouse was!

A side note if you don't mind Codger_64. Today I attended a small demonstration of the Captel phone system. Just wondering if you use that system and would like your feelings about it?

 

[Codger_64]

I hadn't heard of the Captel. It sounds interesting though. It has to route through a captioning service. It looks like I might be able to get one either free or at a reduced rate through my State program (Telecommunications Devices Access Program (TDAP)/Tennessee Regulatory Authority (TRA). Thanks. I'll check into it. Hopefully their transcription service is better than TV closed captioning. Of course it would mean another monthly bill for a landline. I'm not too sure I want to do that.

Jake is making slow but sure progress today. He met my almost two year old granddaughter for the first time, his first "people puppy". For a dog so young and inexperienced, he was careful with her and didn't nip when he took treats from her or knock her down when chasing and returning the ball she threw.

He also did a bit better with the lead attached to a harness. But the one she bought was maxed out in size, so it will go back to the store tomorrow. He still has quite a bit of growing to do. Likewise I need to upsize his bowls. I had bought puppy bowls, not dog bowls.

I put him in his wire crate while we ate and he didn't raise a fuss. It has open sides he can see out of and it is big enough for him to move around in. His travel carrier would be about right for Casper. Jake stands 18" at the shoulder and is 30" long already from nose to rump. He was really cramped up in there. Around town, he will likely just ride sitting in the seat of my truck.

He is still mystifyed by "people sounds", like my washing machine and dryer, and most of all my computer. It makes a lot of sounds I don't hear, evidently. I set a new password to keep him off of it though. On cannot be too careful with young impressionable minds. He reacts to my doorbell, but doesn't understand to notify me yet. We'll work on that.

He has most of his spots, but hasn't begun to get his "feathers" on his ears, tail or legs.

 

[dttomcat]

Great News, Codger! Jake is a lucky dog. I'm glad you made it happen. Can't wait to see the photos. Congrats!