how much of it is style???

myright said:
Nice weekend this weekend! Everyone get off the couch and head out and put some scratches on those blades :D
Click to expand...


Nice weekend? We are in a Blizzard Warning and are suppose to get 10"-16" of snow!!

I know what you mean though. I'm guilty of buying more fixed blades than I need, just because I like the looks of them. But I do use them, whenever I get to the woods. It's just the choice of which one to take. Whichever one I choose though, my Charge TTi always comes with me. It seems like I'm always using the pliers when I'm camping, and the s30v blade is great!
 
When Oetzi, the 5,000 year old cadaver was located, he had a small flint knife and a copper hatchet. Anthropologists surmised that the hatchet was far too valuable to use and was more a talisman than a tool. There is utility and there is beauty. There are also talismanic attributes. Some of our blades incorporate all, some only 1 or 2 of these qualities. We carry blades for different reasons. I think the idea is to enjoy whatever blade(s) you are carrying.

When woods walking, the blades that I carry usually include a SAK huntsman, a Gerber Gator pocket ax (8 inch handle) a Fiskars pruning saw, a Buck 110 and a Wally World special 10.00 fixed blade Ozark Trails knife that I modified with some sports tape and reprofiled into a chisel point when I broke the point using it as a throwing knife.

I find that I use the Gerber Gator more than any other blade. It chops, splits and cuts. I can baton it. I can hold it by the ax head and shave kindling. I use the SAK 2nd most. I never go out without the SAK. In a pinch, I have used the saw to harvest wood, the blade to shave kindling and the saw back to strike my fire steel.

The Ozark Trails knife will handle any sort of rough use. It won't hold an edge to long, but I can field sharpen it with a pocket diamond rod. Sure, I hate the fact that it is made in China. If there was a US made equivalent, I would buy one or two or three.

The Buck 110 is a talisman. I bought it to replace one that I lost 30 years ago. It does not get used much, but I feel funny without it.

RR's comment applies to me, "getting out and doing it with whatever works is more interesting to me than collecting." However, that does not mean that you should not collect, or carry a knife because it has some special meaning. Enjoy your blades for whatever reasons you do.
 
RescueRiley said:
Just thinking out loud, bear with me
Click to expand...

I agree 100%. And I'll go a couple of steps further.
Generally speaking:
1. Today's modern general mfg, lower priced knives - Buck, Kershaw etc. steel, fit and finish are excellent and can handle 99% of tasks.

2. The role of the knife in the outdoors is diminishing in the outdoor activities such as hiking and backpacking.

3. For many situations a knife is becoming an emergency use item.

Manny of the things that we read that a knife is used for can be done by other products and are better.
Fire for cooking - backpacker stove
Fire for light and heat - small saw; battoning maybe
Cutting up cardboard - box cutter

Yes a knife is needed for special situations:
Emergency responders
Hunting/Fishing
Food Prep
Cutting rope

In many product discussions when they have reached their opium stage the variances among them and aspects discussed are about marginal differences.

While backpacking I carry a SAK trekker and a Buck guide 3" fixed blade knife. The SAK has everything I need. The Buck is for food prep and emergency use. Even the food prep use is a non issue. I used freeze dried food.
 
Dexter, I hear you about the diminish role of knives in backpacking and camping these days due to innovations in outdoor technology, Personally I don't use allot of gear when I'm out as it gives me a chance to work my bushcraft, and primitive living skills.. at this point the practice of those skill has replaced hiking as my favorite outdoor activity..
 
The problem with the other alternative technology to knives are: 1) they are specialized and not multifulctional - this increases total bulk and weight because more specialized items need to be carried, 2) often mechanical and subject to breakdown (e.g. lighter especially the piezo lit ones), 3) the virtue of their ease of use means that training is downplayed - this includes things like maintaining the very equipment you are relying on (how many people really know how to disassemble their stove and clear out clogs in the bush - I've done it twice but I know many people who use and rely on them who can't do it).

A knife & firesteel can come along the ride with a minimum of weight or bulk cost. So perhaps your lighter doesn't light. No problem. Perhaps the stove regulator valve was damaged when your pack fell down the hillside. Having the skills to deal with these situations is worth it - far more so than the convenience.
 
Last edited:
Good point kgd.

I do think it a bit funny to be criticized for carrying a knife because it's too heavy by guys that carry fuel bottles and stoves, which I don't (mostly on backpacker forums, not here).

Thing that gets me with a lot of the more modern approaches is, like you said, they are specialized, and you end up carrying more things, and thus begins the race for everything ultralight because you have such a huge list. When if you just carry fewer multiuse things, you can stay light without breaking the bank to buy everything in titanium.
 
I don't think it's all aesthetics.

Look at your kitchen knives: I've got a couple 'go to' knives, but I also have some specialty knives that just do the jobs better, e.g. boning knife.

When I go fishing, I take a filet knife.

Some knives you can just push harder. Maybe you never need to, but you know you can if required. Maybe you sacrifice efficiency for strength.

Size, blade geometry, weight all affect a knife's performance for different tasks.

Could you get by with just a Green River butcher's knife? Many a mountian man did (although they also carried axes and clasp knives and daggers).

While all knives are more or less the same, there is a reason the are specialized as well. Same with screwdrivers: short, regular, long, extra-long. a No.1 Philips is not just a No.1 Philips.

It's not just aesthetics.
 
RescueRiley said:
Dexter, I hear you about the diminish role of knives in backpacking and camping these days due to innovations in outdoor technology, Personally I don't use allot of gear when I'm out as it gives me a chance to work my bushcraft, and primitive living skills.. at this point the practice of those skill has replaced hiking as my favorite outdoor activity..
Click to expand...

I think bushcraft is a reasonable reason for a knife. It is the preservation of a skill.
 
Cpl Punishment said:
Good point kgd.

I do think it a bit funny to be criticized for carrying a knife because it's too heavy by guys that carry fuel bottles and stoves, which I don't (mostly on backpacker forums, not here).

Thing that gets me with a lot of the more modern approaches is, like you said, they are specialized, and you end up carrying more things, and thus begins the race for everything ultralight because you have such a huge list. When if you just carry fewer multiuse things, you can stay light without breaking the bank to buy everything in titanium.
Click to expand...

You should suggest this stove to those people.
http://www.campsaver.com/ItemMatrix.asp?GroupCode=trd0001&MatrixType=1
 
kgd said:
I certainly think that there are performance advantages of certain blade styles and grind types at certain types of activity. In the end, I can buy a walmart, craftsman or snap-on phillips screwdriver. They will (except the walmart one) for the most part be capable of unscrewing a screw. But if I were a mechanic, well I'd have a snap-on. If I really loved screwing around (:D :D :D) I'd also buy myself a snap-on. But alas, I have a set of craftsmen screwdrivers, cause the damn walmart crap didn't last.

For knives - well I love playing with them. As already indicated, most of the slight performance enhancements would really be lost on somebody who just grabs a knife to cut something. When you take pleasure in make a fuzzy, or whittling or any kind cutting wood in general, then you grow to like those little performance gains with a great knife. A knife that feels good in the hand and cuts they way you like increases that pleasure. If you have to work with your tools I imagine you would feel the same way.

As for style, there certainly is an element to that. Hell - Bryan Andrews just created a pink girlie knife - he will probably sell those things by the boat load!! I think most of us have a certain aesthetic sense when it comes to knives. Lots of folks claim they won't buy a knife because of the coated blade - even when that coating is put there to improve corrosion resistance. Why on earth would somebody pay an extra $150 for the same model of knife because it has desert ironwood slabs - well because it is gorgeous. Truth is, from a pure function standpoint - wood handles would be an extinct thing in modern knives. But they exist in abundance and are found on the higher end models of many production and custom knives.
Click to expand...

man we need to save that for the pepole who dont understand collecting....
while if i only had my vic swiss tool i would consder my self haveing it made in the shade i do so love my busse and barkeys just for the fact how long the hold that edge and the way they feel in the hand when i have time to go out and practice my woods skillz. i dont have safe queens i just posted in another thread there is a fellw formites sig says it best.
"you onlynow the value of a knife if you use it" thats just IMO
all knives and woods tools are a thing of beauti to me while others rank higher on my list is personal taste.one more thing if your going to master a knife isn't nice to know once you master it and love it if you do have a failur of some type the manufactuer will fix or replace it. i also like the pice of mind knowing that when im practiceing.
 
Last edited:
Lots of good points .. its funny how no matter what hobby - pens, guns, knives... the issues are the same.

Part of it boils down to Collectors vs. Accumulators vs. Users

You can be all or only one. I think it boils down to the fact that, as already alluded to, you can look at a knife aesthetically or functionally. Some can see aesthetics in the function whereas others view aesthetics more abstracted away from function.

I see nothing wrong with collecting if it works for people - but it seems to me, that when one does this, the knife has ceased to be a tool and is simply an aesthetic object. This bothers me to some degree because it seems artificial- you've denied the intended purpose of the object (Like rich collectors of Stad violins who are amatuer violinists at best).
 
gravydan said:
Lots of good points .. its funny how no matter what hobby - pens, guns, knives... the issues are the same.

Part of it boils down to Collectors vs. Accumulators vs. Users

You can be all or only one. I think it boils down to the fact that, as already alluded to, you can look at a knife aesthetically or functionally. Some can see aesthetics in the function whereas others view aesthetics more abstracted away from function.

I see nothing wrong with collecting if it works for people - but it seems to me, that when one does this, the knife has ceased to be a tool and is simply an aesthetic object. This bothers me to some degree because it seems artificial- you've denied the intended purpose of the object (Like rich collectors of Stad violins who are amatuer violinists at best).
Click to expand...

+1!

I agree wholeheartedly. It may seem odd, since my livelihood is dependent on aesthetics (I'm an illustrator), but I see a beauty in the function of the knife that supersedes the embellishments that some find necessary. There are some knives that are beautiful in their own right, of course, but there is an enormous beauty in a very simple, functional design without embellishment.

I don't need silver or brass or wood if they don't add to the usefulness of the tool. Give me Micarta and steel, baby: now that's beautiful!
 
EDIT: My opinion on this topic not worth any controversy that may ensue.

I just want to state that I respect anyone that calls themselves a collector OR a user. I think both are cool. I TOTALLY get the idea of having a knife because it looks cool. I also totally get the idea of having a knife because you don't care how it looks - just how it preforms. Knives are just cool.

I HOPE with all hopes that my comments were not taken wrong or offended anyone. This board is too cool for me to screw up any part of it.

TF
 
Last edited:
I'm not really sure how this thread went from the OP's remarks to a discussion on collectors versus users, but it is unfortunate.

Edited to add: No need to apologize Talfuchre. I wasn't trying to harp on anyone. I was only trying to say that I enjoyed the original topic of the thread. :thumbup:
 
Last edited:
It is important to look at what style means-

First a little digression to bring us along to my eventual desitination. I rarely actually use the knife on a leatherman. (Oh, it can be handy if I find myself in an environment where I can't carry anything else for some reason.) Why is this?

It has been mentioned in this thread that they cut just fine, that pretty much any cutting tool will cut okay. But there's a difference between okay and great, even good.

Now, what is style exactly? For most of us here, not being Gil Hibben outdoorsmen :D, style has something to do with function in the overall sense. And that's what kills the leatherman knife. It's not pure aesthetics, it's a functional basis of style that gives us our "stlin" tools that happen to work better
 
i gotta tell ya, unfortunately it's true...

stick too good workmanship and materials...and it's hard too buy a BAD knife...

BUT, tis fun tryin' ta find dee best...lol
 
I have cheap knves all the way up to my fave custom knives and I use them all. I dont look for pretty knives really I get what I think will do the job I need it for. To some my Gossmon knives are plain looking and to be honest they are. But the way it performs is unquestionable. Same for my Brian Goode TTW knife. So from my limb lopper and mora to my customs I have them because I wanted them and I knew they would do the job. I guess you can say I am a collector of users. :D
 
RescueRiley said:
Just thinking out loud, bear with me. ALthough I speak of a leatherman wave in this thread, it is merely a vehicle through which I made broad observation about my quest for the perfect blade.

I search around as we all do for the perfect knife, the perfect chopper the perfect folder the perfect axe..yada yada.. as I experiment with different things I discover all of them work...this is no testimony to my skill as I am a novice bushcrafter... for years I've carried a leatherman wave at work, and as an edc long before I joined BF actually,,
Lately I've been looking around for a bomb proof low profile sheeple friendly folder that could service as an edc blade, and as a folder for jaunts in the woods.. I've tried bucks and spydercos, a opinels, kershaws and douk douks, and traditional slip joints and such.. I loved them all but the fact is despite the unsexy steel and blocky handle the leatherman really meets all the requirements. it seems almost too handy not to carry..I just keep overlooking because it doesn't have the "look" or the "ambiance" it is a basic utilitarian tool. that's been exactly what i needed, and it's been on my belt all along.
Some folks seem to think that a multitool has no place in the woods, however when I look back I've used the pliers to take kettles and pots off the fire, I use the serrated blade for all the utility cutting which saves the edge on the straight blade for dedicated duties, the saw and file have both proven handy as well.. so in retrospect it's proven a nifty convenience to have overall.However this is not a thread in praise of a leatherman wave.
What this thread is about is the realizations that have occurred to me over the past several days...the first is that while all variations of knives have positive and negative attributes, almost any is"good enough" to do most of what we require of them. the second is that most of the discussion we venture to on this forum revolves at some point almost entirely around stylistic choices...in regards to handle material blade style grind etc. etc.
THis is not to be confused with those of us that just have a plain appreciation for beautiful knives...that's different..it's just to say the cpm3v (i don't even know if that's a steel) am linen micarta in a covex ground drop point, a stick than scandi in curly birc, a BM folding compression lock, and my leatherman wave..essentially all do the same things respectively..the cut stuff..beyond that comes comfort and reliablity, after that I think it becomes akin to a stylistic choice...and there is nothing wrong with that it's just a personal observation.
I in the past have been held captive by preconcieved ideas of what a knife should be or shouldn't be, or if I'd look like a tool wearing a fixed blade or not, maybe that's why I like the moras so much because by all defintions the should suck they have 0 style yet they still get the job done.
THanks for listening.. what are your thoughts?? this is not an attack I made it clear that these are my own personal observations, so let's keep it civil please...All this being said I'd still love to give a pe vic trekker a spin.. and I won't stop buying knives I like either.. I guess I'm just ranting.
Click to expand...


Sure, a plastic handled SS blade Mora or a Opinel cuts very well....yet i simply cannot use one, they feel god awful cheap and look butt ugly to me. Is "style" affecting my choice in knives? hell yes. Sure one can get by with a cheap knife, but I think that most of us really appreciate a well made, nice looking blade, wether it be a production model or a custom.
 
I have an odd one for you. I have yet to see a knife in a picture thread, book, article, or magazine that was HOT looking - and saved a life.

For instance - the knife that was used by the write of 'Adrift' was a simple cheapie SAK style folder.

I think many of us are collectors more than we would admit.

TF
 
I think it's a combination.
You've got a good point, BUT. . .

I don't remember reading many stories where a knife was responsible for saving someone and that someone was a bushcraft/survival nut like many here. You have to understand, as big as this forum is, we are a tiny minority. Most "regular folks" wouldn't understand why I think the BRKT Aurora is materially better than their [fill-in-the-blank-cheap-knife]. Not that is does things that the more run of the mill knives can't, but it does it better (for me). I'm one of those weirdos that uses a knife several times a day for things that others may grab scissors or some other implement for, so I feel the minute differences between what I prefer and what will "just do".

Just like Busses, which often get maligned as "trophy knives". There are some guys like SAR, emergency services, LEO, military that will actually need the capabilities of a Busse. They'll get into situations where all they have is the knife, they can't go get the proper toll, because they need to do [IT] right now or someone dies. Which may mean doing something that would otherwise be stupid to do with a knife.

Others (like me) will probably never see such a situation and buy them because they look cool and still work.

Besides, I think it's always been a human trait, that if we find two things tha do a job equally well, we'll generally take the nicer looking one (to us) if we can afford it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top