How much should I refund?

N

n00b3r

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Let me begin by saying I'm the one at fault here:

I recently traded with a member here, my DDC SnG-CC for his production SMF + $400.

Told him that there were scratches on the clip and one of the screws, so I removed those, so he can install the ones from his SMF.

Now, the side of the blade (not sure if it was the left, or the right) has marks from contact with either the G-10 side or the Ti side, which was as I received it from TNK.

There is a scratch on the spine of the tip of the blade, and the edge has been touched up on a sharpmaker with the white stones. I am fully willing to compensate for that.

So here's the question, how much should I refund him? He was the one who offered the $400 cash adjustment, mind you.

EDIT:

Here is the original thread:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=521547

Thanks in advance
 
OK, my opinion is that any refund should be minimal, if at all, like $20. I'm influenced by those that say Strider marks are just normal, get over it. yes I know it a custom not production, but it is by the same people.
 
I'm a fan of total satisfaction. If the other person is unhappy, the right thing to do is to offer to kill the deal, mail knives back to original owners and refund dollars. Each person is equally out the mailing charges.
If the other person is unhappy, what do they want to be happy?
 
Well, I definitely need to refund him, as I would feel pretty bad if he feels like he got ripped off.

As for killing the deal....that's a problem on this end, since I spent the paypal funds on Airsoft goods....
 
n00b3r said:
Well, I definitely need to refund him, as I would feel pretty bad if he feels like he got ripped off.

As for killing the deal....that's a problem on this end, since I spent the paypal funds on Airsoft goods....
Click to expand...

Thats the first lesson, don't spend it till the deal is done to everyones satisfaction.
 
Lesson learned, though a week too late...

Any more monetary suggestion?

EDIT:
Should also be noted that I only have (well, had) the $400, and the other party retains both the SMF and the DDC.
 
Sorted it out, he wants me to cover shipping to strider, return shipping from strider, and the Strider Spa fees (total of $70), because the action is mucky according to him (I tightened it prior to shipping), and that he does not have the torx bit to transfer his SMF clip to the SnG.
 
As the buyer/trader I can advise the following:

1. The knife had been disassembled and modified and the owner was not successful putting it back correctly. He had made custom bullet casings to put on the Ti side of the knife and over torqued the pivot.
2. The pivot was extremely tight; I used a allen key and loosened it but the opening was still very tight. I took the pivot apart and re assembled it and the opening is not up to Strider standards. I own four other Striders and this one wouldn't pass QA. No way. You need two hands to open it; that is not a conventional Strider folder.
3. There are two screws missing plus the Ti clip. The screws on a SMF and a SNG CC are totally different. The SMF are longer and you can check it out on the Badlandsforums FAQ's; about an 1/8" longer. It is not possible to simply swap out parts from these two models.
4. Others have referred to the Strider marks often found on stock as well as customs. This one has as rub mark down the centre of the blade roughly where it would hit the Ti when opened or closed. The razor wire print on the blade has rubbed off. I don't care so much about the Strider marks but I am clarifying what I have noted since this is a custom.
5. The clip and two screws are missing. The owner said just swap the SMF and the SNG parts and that is all that is required.

Ok, so I have PP'd $400 which has been spent already. I offered to ship the SNG back to him on my dime and simply take my $400 back. He spent it elsewhere and can not fix the deal now. I am about to ship a 95% great condition SMF which cost me $475 last April. Hardly used and never sharpened plus it's in perfect shape. My investment in this deal is $875 and I offered to pay that based upon a perfect SNG DDC coming my way. I would rate this SNG at maybe 75% based upon the other Striders I have bought.

I don't like airing my dirty laundry in public but I have read this thread a couple of times and felt the whole story should be conveyed. Bottom line, if you are selling something as a perfect knife and it isn't, you need to fix it without pleading your story in open forums. I pm'd him and advised we could work it out in private but he continued to respond in this thread.

I will hold onto both SMF and SNG until the situation is fixed. Once I have received the money promised for the spa and shipping to Strider, I will ship my blade your way.

I think I have been more than fair and only expect what was initially promised as a DDC SNG CC in 95% or better condition.

Caveat emptor.


Ps check out the picture of the same knife on the custom sales area. Note the Hinderer disk! On the I was shipped, the disk is inserted backwards.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=523401
 
Hey bud, I have addressed every one of these via email before shipping:
RNST said:
As the buyer/trader I can advise the following:

1. The knife had been disassembled and modified and the owner was not successful putting it back correctly. He had made custom bullet casings to put on the Ti side of the knife and over torqued the pivot.
Click to expand...
I have not modified any part of the knife. All I did was to make a pair of LBSs from bullet casings.

December 31rst email:
Also, I made a pair of LBS from a 9mm casing and a .223 casing, you want them as well?

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff130/revolverdropalot/DSC_1712.jpg
http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff130/revolverdropalot/DSC_1711.jpg
http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff130/revolverdropalot/DSC_1710.jpg

To which you said "It looks really cool"

RNST said:
2. The pivot was extremely tight; I used a allen key and loosened it but the opening was still very tight. I took the pivot apart and re assembled it and the opening is not up to Strider standards. I own four other Striders and this one wouldn't pass QA. No way. You need two hands to open it; that is not a conventional Strider folder.
Click to expand...
Jan 1rst:
Please send me your full shipping info, as well as how much you want the knife insured for, and what to declare it as. I will tighten the pivot before shipping as well.

Thanks,
Peter

Left unresponded, and thus, instead of inviting the risk of a custom rejection, I tightened the pivot.

RNST said:
3. There are two screws missing plus the Ti clip. The screws on a SMF and a SNG CC are totally different. The SMF are longer and you can check it out on the Badlandsforums FAQ's; about an 1/8" longer. It is not possible to simply swap out parts from these two models.
Click to expand...
Email from me on december 31rst:
"If you wish, feel free to remove the clip and a screw from your SMF, and we'll swap knives without those parts."

Left unresponded, so instead of sending you scratched up parts, I assumed taht you would rather have the un scratched ones from your SMF....

RNST said:
4. Others have referred to the Strider marks often found on stock as well as customs. This one has as rub mark down the centre of the blade roughly where it would hit the Ti when opened or closed. The razor wire print on the blade has rubbed off. I don't care so much about the Strider marks but I am clarifying what I have noted since this is a custom.
Click to expand...
RNST said:
5. The clip and two screws are missing. The owner said just swap the SMF and the SNG parts and that is all that is required.
Click to expand...

Addressed in previous quotes. I have also offered to send the screws to you, as well as paying for express shipping back and from the Strider spa.

RNST said:
Ok, so I have PP'd $400 which has been spent already. I offered to ship the SNG back to him on my dime and simply take my $400 back. He spent it elsewhere and can not fix the deal now. I am about to ship a 95% great condition SMF which cost me $475 last April. Hardly used and never sharpened plus it's in perfect shape. My investment in this deal is $875 and I offered to pay that based upon a perfect SNG DDC coming my way. I would rate this SNG at maybe 75% based upon the other Striders I have bought.
Click to expand...
The marks on the DDC were not from use, with the exception of the mark on the tip.

RNST said:
I don't like airing my dirty laundry in public but I have read this thread a couple of times and felt the whole story should be conveyed. Bottom line, if you are selling something as a perfect knife and it isn't, you need to fix it without pleading your story in open forums. I pm'd him and advised we could work it out in private but he continued to respond in this thread.
Click to expand...
All I did was post the result....I figured since I asked these guys for help, I should let them know what happened in the end.
Please note that I have not mentioned your username, not once. What I did was taking Keith's advice and I was willing to offer what you asked for. Not once have I said that the knife is perfect, not in the thread, not via email. The clip and screws situation was addressed but was unresponded to.

First thing I posted in this thread: this was completely my fault. I have not put one bit of blame on you, not via emails, not on the forums...

RNST said:
I will hold onto both SMF and SNG until the situation is fixed. Once I have received the money promised for the spa and shipping to Strider, I will ship my blade your way.
Click to expand...

That's what we agreed to via email.

RNST said:
I think I have been more than fair and only expect what was initially promised as a DDC SNG CC in 95% or better condition.
Click to expand...

Well, can you at least admit that I have told you about everything minus the Strider marks via email, prior to your sending the $400?
Caveat emptor.

RNST said:
Ps check out the picture of the same knife on the custom sales area. Note the Hinderer disk! On the I was shipped, the disk is inserted backwards.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=523401
Click to expand...

It's called a contoured LBS. Comes with the CC models.....
http://www.truenorthknives.com/Knives/custom/DDC1987.jpg
 
1) Don't assume that unresponded emails mean assent.
2) Don't spend money or sell trade items until the deal is done.
3) Take lots of pics and be sure to explain every scratch or possible imperfection.
4) The deal isn't done until both sides acknowledge that they are happy with it.

IMO n00b should eat the $70. First, it's the right thing to do. Second, I do not suggest that n00b was deliberately misrepresenting the knife, but he certainly knows what others think of its condition now. Honesty would demand that if he took it back and re-listed it that it must either be refurbed or the price must belowered according to condition. From a practical standpoint, it's easier to work with the member who has the knife now.
 
I agree with Geraldo, pay the $70 and move on.

I do find it fascinating that someone would expect a *strider* family knife to be perfect, given abundant evidence they're no that way even when NIB.
 
n00b3r said:
Hey bud, I have addressed every one of these via email before shipping:

I have not modified any part of the knife. All I did was to make a pair of LBSs from bullet casings.

December 31rst email:
Also, I made a pair of LBS from a 9mm casing and a .223 casing, you want them as well?

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff130/revolverdropalot/DSC_1712.jpg
http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff130/revolverdropalot/DSC_1711.jpg
http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff130/revolverdropalot/DSC_1710.jpg

To which you said "It looks really cool"


Jan 1rst:
Please send me your full shipping info, as well as how much you want the knife insured for, and what to declare it as. I will tighten the pivot before shipping as well.

Thanks,
Peter

Left unresponded, and thus, instead of inviting the risk of a custom rejection, I tightened the pivot.


Email from me on december 31rst:
"If you wish, feel free to remove the clip and a screw from your SMF, and we'll swap knives without those parts."

Left unresponded, so instead of sending you scratched up parts, I assumed taht you would rather have the un scratched ones from your SMF....




Addressed in previous quotes. I have also offered to send the screws to you, as well as paying for express shipping back and from the Strider spa.


The marks on the DDC were not from use, with the exception of the mark on the tip.


All I did was post the result....I figured since I asked these guys for help, I should let them know what happened in the end.
Please note that I have not mentioned your username, not once. What I did was taking Keith's advice and I was willing to offer what you asked for. Not once have I said that the knife is perfect, not in the thread, not via email. The clip and screws situation was addressed but was unresponded to.

First thing I posted in this thread: this was completely my fault. I have not put one bit of blame on you, not via emails, not on the forums...



That's what we agreed to via email.



Well, can you at least admit that I have told you about everything minus the Strider marks via email, prior to your sending the $400?
Caveat emptor.



It's called a contoured LBS. Comes with the CC models.....
http://www.truenorthknives.com/Knives/custom/DDC1987.jpg
Click to expand...

What you didn't mention was you were having email problems and I did in fact respond to each and every issue. You gave me a gmail account a week afterwards and acknowledged that your yahoo was giving you some grief. Why would you say it was me being unresponsive when you already acknowledged that you were having email problems?



The key thing is I said up front was I would pay $400 and trade my SMF for a perfect DDC SNG CC. At no point did you say it was less than perfect other than a few scratches.


I also stated in my email that tightening it up would not be necessary if it were a normal Strider folder.

My issue is not so much the scratches; I have Striders and expect that to be the norm. I do have an issue with a knife which was tampered with and was not put back together properly. Hence the statement about the pivot being too tight, the hinderer disk inserted backwards (??? How did you get that wrong?), missing screws and the ti clip.

NOW, I will be inconvenienced because I have to ship it to Strider for them to fix. I might see it about a month from now and to say the least I am less than impressed with your responses above. You seem to want to take the easy way out now rather than saying, no problem here is your money, send back my knife.

I want my $400 back, forget the $70 for the spa. I will ship this thing back to you once I see $400 in my paypal account.

Lesson learned by me, deal with the ones you know and have a proven track record. Do a search on me on Microholics, KF, and here on BF and you will see I am a great customer, pay promptly, excellent communications and I fulfill my end of the deal. On ebay I have a 100% rating for both selling and buying and have been active there for over four years.

Since you started this thing on the open forums, I will await your reply here.
 
Whoa! Seemed like the parties had reached an agreement here, but then after reaching agreement negotiation (or argument) continues and now what's happening?

For a while there it looked like everything was all settled and everybody was reasonably satisfied. Now it's not clear if anything is settled and likely nobody is going to be satisfied at all. Is that the road you want to take?
 
RNST said:
What you didn't mention was you were having email problems and I did in fact respond to each and every issue. You gave me a gmail account a week afterwards and acknowledged that your yahoo was giving you some grief. Why would you say it was me being unresponsive when you already acknowledged that you were having email problems?



The key thing is I said up front was I would pay $400 and trade my SMF for a perfect DDC SNG CC. At no point did you say it was less than perfect other than a few scratches.


I also stated in my email that tightening it up would not be necessary if it were a normal Strider folder.

My issue is not so much the scratches; I have Striders and expect that to be the norm. I do have an issue with a knife which was tampered with and was not put back together properly. Hence the statement about the pivot being too tight, the hinderer disk inserted backwards (??? How did you get that wrong?), missing screws and the ti clip.

NOW, I will be inconvenienced because I have to ship it to Strider for them to fix. I might see it about a month from now and to say the least I am less than impressed with your responses above. You seem to want to take the easy way out now rather than saying, no problem here is your money, send back my knife.

I want my $400 back, forget the $70 for the spa. I will ship this thing back to you once I see $400 in my paypal account.

Lesson learned by me, deal with the ones you know and have a proven track record. Do a search on me on Microholics, KF, and here on BF and you will see I am a great customer, pay promptly, excellent communications and I fulfill my end of the deal. On ebay I have a 100% rating for both selling and buying and have been active there for over four years.

Since you started this thing on the open forums, I will await your reply here.
Click to expand...
I have already said that you will have your money. I'd just like to point out that I addressed the points, and what you have received was not of my bad intention.

Didn't mean for any of this to turn into an argument, was hoping that post #10 would have been the end of this thread.

As for the LBS, it's not inserted backwards, the newer CC models are designed that way (curvy on the outside, like this (picture from TAD))

sng-cc-tn2.jpg
 
Cougar Allen said:
For a while there it looked like everything was all settled and everybody was reasonably satisfied. Now it's not clear if anything is settled and likely nobody is going to be satisfied at all. Is that the road you want to take?
Click to expand...
No, not at all.

Actually, I don't think I've apologized to RNST yet.....

I'm sorry for not explaining that I did not receive many of your replies (including the 3 where you send me your address), as well as misinterpreting my not receiving the responses as an affirmative response. I honestly thought that by tightening the pivot, and removing the clip and screws, I was doing the right thing, but now that it's not, I'm sorry.

Will work on getting you that $400 ASAP, might take a few months, as I am a college student.

gajinoz said:
I think this one should definitely have stayed private.
Click to expand...

Don't get me wrong, the original intent was to figure out a sum before the night ended, and have it sent over to him asap.
 
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