How sharp is "sharp" to the average end user?

[KennyB]

Obviously all the hair-popping, air-bleeding wicked edges that people have aren't really what the factory produces, nor what the end user expects or experiences for very long. I've seen a lot of different ideas of "sharp", and I remember back when I was a child my uncle telling me, "You can tell if a knife is sharp if it cuts paper," and I use to think that was the pinnacle of sharpness. It's kind of interesting sometimes to me though because I think a lot of people put a good amount of pride into their sharpening skills, despite the fact that the majority of the public probably wouldn't notice the difference... Well, that is until they cut themselves with it.

Anyway, I'm just saying, I remember one of my relations on Thanksgiving showing off his new knife. Wasn't bad, but one of those hard-ware store display case type of deals, and he went on about, "You just have to love when a knife is new and sharp," and I thought it was kind of funny because I was feeling up the edge and it was blunted and burred and by no means sharp by a lot of definitions you can find.

I don't know, I think the first time I ever realized that knives could be super sharp was when I sharpened up a swiss army knife ( not sure if it was a Vic or what ) with a Lansky. I remembered some seen from Crocodile Dundee where he shaved with his knife and always wondered if it was possible, and of course not having the facial hair when I was ten I shaved my arm with it and was astounded that a knife was even possible of that. Of course imagine my surprise years later when I found that you could pretty much do all but the old Elmer Fudd split-a-hair-on-an-axe type of things with a knife.

Just makes you wonder like, how sharp the average end user really expects a knife to be, and then how sharp a knife really could be. I remember hearing stories about how when a sword maker was forging a sword, it had to be able to slice a leaf floating by in a stream of water before they even began sharpening it, and that they would drop a cloth made of silk on it and if it could not cut it, it wouldn't be acceptable.

I think after all is said and done and from what I've seen now, I wouldn't be surprised if I could find a knife that would part flesh like a hot knife through butter. After all, where else did they get the term?

 

[Slider817]

I dont mean to be critical, but what is the relevance or point of the average "End" user? Your cousin who thought his cheepo dull knife was razor sharp is likely representative of the overwhelming majority of knife users (pretty much everyone on the planet). Myself, I like my knives very sharp, but I and probably every person who has ever been on this site is not an average end user.

 

[quackSH]

I consider a knife sharp enough for use if it can easily shave hair off my arm. Then again, most people are shocked that a knife can be that sharp unless it still has a factory edge. The "average end user" probably considers a knife sharp when it's actually able to cut through something without unnecessary amounts of force. Their idea of "sharp" is usually our idea of dull.

 

[KennyB]

I dont mean to be critical, but what is the relevance or point of the average "End" user? Your cousin who thought his cheepo dull knife was razor sharp is likely representative of the overwhelming majority of knife users (pretty much everyone on the planet). Myself, I like my knives very sharp, but I and probably every person who has ever been on this site is not an average end user.

That's what I was thinking, but then I have to think about guys like my uncle... The knife my "cousin" ( he's actually my friend's, sister's boyfriend, but he's kind of family, so cousin works lol ) had probably couldn't even do that. Then again, I've also heard a lot of guys say that hair-shaving should be the standard in a machine shop, but it's hard to say if they're average users or enthusiasts. Plus, I mean, you'd have to suspect profession would make a lot of difference. Imagine the difference between a butcher, a warehouse worker and a chef's idea of sharp.

 

[Tom O'Hawk]

To me it's sort of like an interest where you have a greater appreciation and understanding of something. If someone's into cars and you just had a tune up and say, "Listen to her purr," your "cousin" the car nut is going to roll his eyes. And he'd be right to do so. Your mechanic did an "average end user" job on your car. Or like your "cousin" the musician who goes out to hear the local symphony orchestra and you're all smiling at how great it is, but he's grimacing. And he's right too. The orchestra is not razor sharp. They cannot shave hair off your arm. They would tear paper. We know when knives are sharp. Do they perform better, like the REALLY finely tuned car? Sure they do, but we learned to appreciate that through interest in the subject and experience. I think if others had interest in the subject and experience they would learn to appreciate a finely "tuned" knife as well. But people just want to get through the task. And that's fine with them. It's a handle with a metal thing on it. When it doesn't appear to work anymore they either send it out somewhere to get "fixed" or they buy another one.

 

[Ankerson]

Couldn't really say what the ave person thinks sharp is....

I know what the standard was when I was growing up, the shave hair and slice newspaper stuff along with TP was used by the people I knew.

However those hair whittling edges won't last for more than a second or two for people who really use their knives so it's really a waste of time to get them that sharp in the 1st place.

For a working knife as long as it will slice paper clean it should be sharp enough for most tasks (working edge).

 

[Razorsharp-Travis]

If it shaves hairs- its plenty sharp- I have polished tp, hair splitting cutting edges before I start using my knives- Not everyone needs that. I think paper cutting is good enough for the average user. I mean- still cuts right

-Travis

 

[Bishop2Queen's6]

Push cutting though newsprint is sharp in my book , but I usually go for slicing though office printing paper for EDC b/c the blade can maintain that level of sharpness for a while.

Have to remember that the average user of a cutting instrument will probably never sharpen any of his or her cutting instruments; be it kitchen knives, garden pruners or even the lawn mower blade. A blade enthusiast would maintain their cutting instruments regularly to the level of their need.

 

[LMT66]

If it grabs my thumbnail as lift and drop the blade while gradually checking the entire length, it is sharp enough for me. If it does that, it will slice newsprint.

I don't care if it isn't "hair popping" or "hair shaving" sharp. I have plenty that won't do either but they cut thru wood easily and hold an edge a long time.
Sandpaper and padded table place-mat for my convex belt knives.

 

[singularity35]

I got a new knife which I was preparing to rebevel because it was dull out of the box. There was some crud on the blade and I tried to rub it away with my thumb. Well, what do you know? It cut me enough to need some super glue and I was thinking it was really dull.

 

[Noctis3880]

For me, slicing printer paper is a bare minimum.

For non-knife people, the mass majority of them seem to be satisfied with edges that would tear the things they cut rather than actually cutting.

 

[Chris "Anagarika"]

All the knives in my house (everyone's uses) are dull, with the edge rolled and bent. They still cut fruits, vegetables, etc. That's the idea of sharp for common people. They got that way being used to cut things on ceramic plate, put into coffe mug tip down after use, washed & scrubbed with scotchbrite, dried and carried in tray with spoons, forks, etc.

I hesitant to sharpen them, cause someone might cut him/herself using it. The only one I maintain is the small Victorinox paring knife my wife uses. She appreciates that

 

[gomipile]

All the knives in my house (everyone's uses) are dull, with the edge rolled and bent. They still cut fruits, vegetables, etc. That's the idea of sharp for common people. They got that way being used to cut things on ceramic plate, put into coffe mug tip down after use, washed & scrubbed with scotchbrite, dried and carried in tray with spoons, forks, etc.

I hesitant to sharpen them, cause someone might cut him/herself using it. The only one I maintain is the small Victorinox paring knife my wife uses. She appreciates that

Just remember that a dull knife, when depended on to really cut, can injure one more than a sharp knife which actually performs as intended.

Sharp knives give greater control, so always remember that a sharp knife is safer than a dull knife.

 

[singularity35]

I hesitant to sharpen them, cause someone might cut him/herself using it.

Yeh, this. One time we were having lunch over at a friend's(non knife person) house and when we started using his kitchen knife and a cutting board, we found out that his knife would barely cut. I offered to sharpen it for him since I also saw a double sided SiC stone in his kitchen. He said he would be much obliged. So I put an edge on it and we proceeded to cook our barbecue.

Right after lunch his wife started cutting some mangoes. Her cutting technique seemed to be holding the ripe mango is her hand and cutting into it, using her hand as a cutting board. They had no problems before because the knife was so dull. Before I could warn her, she'd cut into her palm and needed some stitches.

 

[Chris "Anagarika"]

Right after lunch his wife started cutting some mangoes. Her cutting technique seemed to be holding the ripe mango is her hand and cutting into it, using her hand as a cutting board. They had no problems before because the knife was so dull. Before I could warn her, she'd cut into her palm and needed some stitches.

Exactly my point. People that used to dull knives will develop bad habit as such. Therefore I really hesitant to sharpen anyone's knives without explicitly agreed. Even that, risks as such exists.

Still wondering how people live with dull knives ..

Just remember that a dull knife, when depended on to really cut, can injure one more than a sharp knife which actually performs as intended.

Sharp knives give greater control, so always remember that a sharp knife is safer than a dull knife.

Fully agreed, with exception of bad habit above ..

 

[singularity35]

Still wondering how people live with dull knives ..

Poor technique and lack of knowledge, I guess.

I'm sure that all the meat that had been cut by my friend's knife was also well tenderized.

 

[eccvets]

Shaving arm hair and shaving facial hair is two very very different levels of sharpness. being able to shave facial hair usually takes an edge which can wittle free hanging hair while even a fairly dull blade (well dull to me) can shave arm hair. Push cutting newsprint is a start for me (it ususally tells me if there is a wire edge I gotta take care of or not) while being able to wittle free hanging hair as well as slicing cleanly thru toilet paper is pretty much where I end at now adays. Pratice makes perfect and in the end, it really doesn't take that long to get an edge like this. All my knifes (even the kitchen knifes) are like this and most of them hang on to that edge pretty well even with crappy steel in some of the cheaper knifes unless people use them to cut thru bone. I keep telling them to use a cleaver but some times people just don't care. It's ok cuz thats just more pratice for me and I'm ususally bored as hell.

Just today I got a Mora classic #3 in the mail and the stock edge needed some work. I could only get about an inch of the center of the blade to wittle hair. After I was done, I left it on my kitchen table. My brother in law came in and though it was a letter opener. Told him it was my new cooking knife and that it had a pretty good edge on it. I guess he didnt pay attention really as he looked it over and put the blade against some newspaper and i guess he was figuring it would need a lot of pressure or something to cut it but it glided thru without any effort (like it wasn't even there) and he said in a suprise "whoa, ok thats sharp" and put it back in the sheath and didn't wanna touch it after that, like not even go near it. I told him he should take it home and use it to cut up some meat or whatever and to test it out and to let me know how it goes. He didn't want to for some odd reason...

 

[eccvets]

Right after lunch his wife started cutting some mangoes. Her cutting technique seemed to be holding the ripe mango is her hand and cutting into it, using her hand as a cutting board. They had no problems before because the knife was so dull. Before I could warn her, she'd cut into her palm and needed some stitches.

awesome story, I could see how it could easily happen though. I've seen a lot of people use that technique as well but none of them have ever used one of my blades.

 

[KennyB]

I think I'll think twice about sharpening a knife for someone that doesn't know how to use one as well. My mother ( friend's mom, but we're close, so whatever ) cut herself with a knife I sharpened up for her well after she had blunted/rolled the edge on the counter top. Pretty much because the knife wouldn't cut and because the forces she was using it broke free and smacked into her knuckle, but because the edge was still pretty sharp it gave her a nasty cut.

I remember saying, "Well, that's why I should have sharpened it better so it would still be sharp," and she said, "Thanks, I would have just gotten cut deeper." Seems like some people don't really get the concept of sharper being safer and think the exact opposite. I guess the idea of sharp being safer is just not intuitive. I guess realistically if it had been super sharp it might have cut her worse, but on the other hand if it had been basic sharp she could have used it safely without that ever happening.

Frankly though, with how much my family leaves the knives in the kitchen sink and underneath dishes just waiting to fall near my feet, I've actually started dulling some of the kitchen knives just to make sure I don't get a toe cut off. I've had plenty of the cheap steak knives that wouldn't cut bread hit my foot, just glad it wasn't the one I sharpened for her, that still has enough of a basic edge to do some damage.

I think for some people what they really need is a thin piece of metal, not necessarily a knife.

But, yeah, given all that... Another friend of hers put a working edge on it on some stone in a few minutes lately, and she was super impressed with him cutting paper with it. I didn't spend a lot of time with it either ( a good bit more though ) and got it shaving sharp, but I doubt she noticed that.

 

[eccvets]

However those hair whittling edges won't last for more than a second or two for people who really use their knives so it's really a waste of time to get them that sharp in the 1st place.

true but you never know when your gonna need your knife that sharp

dont you some times just get a hankering to shave your face with your knife?