How sharp is "sharp" to the average end user?

[eccvets]

I got a new knife which I was preparing to rebevel because it was dull out of the box. There was some crud on the blade and I tried to rub it away with my thumb. Well, what do you know? It cut me enough to need some super glue and I was thinking it was really dull.

I had nearly the same experience with my Byrd cara cara 2. Came with one of the worst edges I ever saw but would still shave my arm hair. It wouldn't even cut thru newsprint though.

 

[unit]

Considering what the average user seems to do with a "knife" I would say that so long as it passes the screwdriver and pry-bar test, it is sharp enough.

 

[richard j]

Couldn't really say what the ave person thinks sharp is....

I know what the standard was when I was growing up, the shave hair and slice newspaper stuff along with TP was used by the people I knew.

However those hair whittling edges won't last for more than a second or two for people who really use their knives so it's really a waste of time to get them that sharp in the 1st place.

For a working knife as long as it will slice paper clean it should be sharp enough for most tasks (working edge).

it makes me wonder about guys that would want a knife sharpened down to 1/2 a micron for example and then expect it to hold up to much use. just like we talked about on the phone last week. to me its a waste of time to put that kind of edge on a knife you're going to use.

the knives i make seem to be a little different. i get them sharp enough to split hairs up the middle but they seem to be able to take some abuse and still stay sharp.

the other day i had an old time friend come over that i have not seen since he late 70's. he brought over some knives to get sharpened and to check out a knife i was making for him as a gift for saving my cousins life back in 1976.


i showed him another knife i was making for a friend here in town and how it would split a hair. after that i cut part of a kevlar glove off and showed him the edge. he was amazed at how the edge was still sharp.

 

[richard j]

eccvets, did you read the post by hkpokes_you in my paper wheel thread where he said he shaved his face with his sword i sharpened? i finished that edge with a fairly new 400 grit belt but i have sharpened knives on 80 grit that would shave just as easily.

 

[Phydeaux]

When my wife and I were first married, she kept getting little nicks and cuts from our kitchen knives because I kept them sharp. Now its "Can you sharpen this one? It's a little dull." The kids have grown up knowing to assume that any knife they pick up in our house is sharp (at least sharp enough to cut news print).

Ric

 

[Ankerson]

it makes me wonder about guys that would want a knife sharpened down to 1/2 a micron for example and then expect it to hold up to much use. just like we talked about on the phone last week. to me its a waste of time to put that kind of edge on a knife you're going to use.

the knives i make seem to be a little different. i get them sharp enough to split hairs up the middle but they seem to be able to take some abuse and still stay sharp.

the other day i had an old time friend come over that i have not seen since he late 70's. he brought over some knives to get sharpened and to check out a knife i was making for him as a gift for saving my cousins life back in 1976.


i showed him another knife i was making for a friend here in town and how it would split a hair. after that i cut part of a kevlar glove off and showed him the edge. he was amazed at how the edge was still sharp.

The blades don't have to be taken down to 1/2 Micron to be sharp that's for sure, I usually sharpen to around 14-16 Micron because it provides a good balance of refinement and aggressiveness along with edge retention.

I can get hair whittling edges from my Fine Norton Sil Carbide Stone after I remove the burr on my strop loaded with Sil Carbide slurry from that stone.

If people want to see an example of that edge finish in action they can watch my XHP Military video.

 

[Skimo]

To the average user... probably cutting paper without tearing.

 

[ToneGrail]

I had nearly the same experience with my Byrd cara cara 2. Came with one of the worst edges I ever saw but would still shave my arm hair. It wouldn't even cut thru newsprint though.

I had the same experience with my Cara Cara 2. However my Cara Cara 1 was able to cut through newsprint no problem out of the box.

 

[eccvets]

eccvets, did you read the post by hkpokes_you in my paper wheel thread where he said he shaved his face with his sword i sharpened? i finished that edge with a fairly new 400 grit belt but i have sharpened knives on 80 grit that would shave just as easily.

i did not read that post, very intresting. I haven't been able to shave my face with anything but the most polished edges I can get on my knifes. Perhaps im doing something wrong or my face is just weird... idk

 

[Bob W]

To the average user... probably cutting paper without tearing.

This.

As far as buying and collecting, I'm perhaps above average. But as a user, I'm probably average and I expect my pocket knife to cut paper cleanly.

 

[richard j]

eccvets, check your email

 

[powernoodle]

I'm satisfied if a knife will go through cardboard pretty easy. If it does that, its generally "sharp enough" for just about anything I will do with a blade.

 

[crimsonfalcon07]

I liked the samurai sword story, although I recall the second best sword being the one that you put in the stream, and it cuts everything. However, the smith who is truly a master can create a sword that, when you put it into the stream, cuts nothing, because everything diverts around it. The sword is one with the world, and leaves the world in balance.

Most people have no idea what sharp means, as long as they are capable of performing whatever task they want done. Most people seem to use dull knives, and don't know what sharp can really mean.

 

[CrimsonTideShooter]

I had nearly the same experience with my Byrd cara cara 2. Came with one of the worst edges I ever saw but would still shave my arm hair. It wouldn't even cut thru newsprint though.

I think I have figured out this phenomena. When dull edges "shave" arm hair I think it is actually "breaking" the hair off at the point of the edge. Since the edge is so ragged it will snag hairs and snap them off, instead of actually cutting them. I could be completely wrong, but it sounds good.

 

[A.P.F.]

I liked the samurai sword story, although I recall the second best sword being the one that you put in the stream, and it cuts everything. However, the smith who is truly a master can create a sword that, when you put it into the stream, cuts nothing, because everything diverts around it. The sword is one with the world, and leaves the world in balance.

Most people have no idea what sharp means, as long as they are capable of performing whatever task they want done. Most people seem to use dull knives, and don't know what sharp can really mean.

The sharpest sword is the one never drawn.

 

[Hadji Flip Me Over]

I don't consider a blade sharp unless I can get it to go through paper with ease. Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure I lack the necessary skills to get all of my knives that sharp.

 

[marthinus]

Many people, not knowing better, think that a very course edge that will catch and pull on your thumb is SHARP!!! (however it is not actually cutting) and think a high polished edge that does not catch and pull on your skin is dull (meanwhile it actually has cut into the thumb). It has happened to me a few times, then out comes the first aid. O and the knife has to all screwed up from sharpening at a zero relief, very course. Then it is sharp. So sharp for many, non informed, users is a course edge that can catch and pull on your thumbs skin.

 

[Luis G.]

I liked the samurai sword story, although I recall the second best sword being the one that you put in the stream, and it cuts everything. However, the smith who is truly a master can create a sword that, when you put it into the stream, cuts nothing, because everything diverts around it. The sword is one with the world, and leaves the world in balance.

Most people have no idea what sharp means, as long as they are capable of performing whatever task they want done. Most people seem to use dull knives, and don't know what sharp can really mean.

The story of Masamune and his "student" Muramasa (or at least the in the story, reality Muramasa lived much later then Masamune):
Story goes that Muramasa challenged Masamune, his teacher, to create the finer blade. After both swords were completed, the swords were hung edge against current in a stream nearby. Muramasa's sword known as Juuchi Yosamu, otherwise known as 10,000 Cold Nights, went first. Almost immediately a fish passed by, and was cut in half by the sword, next a leave perfectly cut, and even the very air that blew across.
Masamune's sword was next known as Yawarakai-Te (tender hands). Masamune waited patiently. A leave passed by, nothing. A swarm of fished went by, with no cuts. Marumasa of course immediately scoffed at Masumanes skill, however Masamune was quite content as he retrieved the blade from the stream.

Marumasa announced his victory, heckling Masamune about how his sword could not cut anything until a monk came over and said this:

"The first of the swords was by all accounts a fine sword, however it is a blood thirsty, evil blade, as it does not discriminate as to who or what it will cut. It may just as well be cutting down butterflies as severing heads. The second was by far the finer of the two, as it does not needlessly cut that which is innocent and undeserving."

 

[cutter17]

I haven't read through this so I'm sure this has already been noted as being sharp. And to me sharp is when I can shave hair, and the hair pops off. That's what is sharp to me.

 

[Sep]

Most people get by with kitchen knives that are not sharp enough to push cut paper. If they have pocket knives, those aren't typically sharper. My sister was content with such knives, until I volunteered to sharpen them. Because she cooks a lot, she quickly appreciates a proper sharp edge and now asks me to sharpen her knives at least once a month.