How sharp should I be able to get my knives?

[dipbait]

I have four diamond stones coarse to fine . I use them to profile the blade and ceramics to finish. I have one set of coarse rods and two sets of fine. I have three angled holes of 30 , 40, and 45. I can get knives to shave leg hair fairly easy, but only a couple of times to whittle hair. Should I be able to get hair whittling sharp "EASILY" with my set up?

 

[winbag338]

I have four diamond stones coarse to fine . I use them to profile the blade and ceramics to finish. I have one set of coarse rods and two sets of fine. I have three angled holes of 30 , 40, and 45. I can get knives to shave leg hair fairly easy, but only a couple of times to whittle hair. Should I be able to get hair whittling sharp "EASILY" with my set up?

Your skills will play a bigger role then equipment used. Hair whittling edges wont tolerate as much stress as will a less refined edge. Since you were able do it once, you can do it again.

 

[kgd]

Sharpness is an agonizing thing when learned and tested in isolation. Folks have several types of standard tests from shaving hair to push cutting paper to slicing free hanging newsprint. There is also the whittling hair thingy which I find rather comical. In the end people over rate and exaggerate sharpness as part of the bragging rights to do so.

I used to agonize about this too much, never thinking my knives were sharp enough and constantly tweaking the edges. Then as I started meeting fellow BF members and knifemakers and handling their blades, I started to get over my insecurity complex on the whole issue. Even knives that were the most sharp I've ever handled, weren't nearly as sharp as my mind envisioned things like 'scary sharp' to be.

Also, despite what folks tell you, you don't have to have knives that are as sharp as conceivably possible for them to perform. This isn't saying that dull knives are good. Dull knives suck. But a sharp knife that can do simple things like shave hair and slice through paper with ease is all the sharp you ever need. In fact, those scary edges very quickly simply turn into sharp edges during use. They don't last much more than a couple of cuts. They are still sharp, and a long wearing steel will keep them sharp for long, but none will keep them scary sharp. For carbon blades, scary sharp degrades just do to normal bits of microcorrosion right at the edge. So what is scary sharp today is merely sharp two weeks later.

My advice is the handle a bunch of other user's blades and get over the sharpening addiction.

 

[hardheart]

Might as well get over the knife addiction and sell all but one swiss army knife while we're at it. I like sharpening knives almost as much as having knives.

You should be able to get hair whittling off your ceramics with a light touch.

 

[never too sharp]

Dull knives suck.

:thumbup:

You should be able to get hair whittling off your ceramics with a light touch.

And lots of patience and time.

 

[rwiggins]

Dane, the answer to your question is yes. Your equipment is fine. As others have said, it is all about technique. Everything is a factor in the sharpening equation. From the type of steel you are attempting to sharpen to the technique you apply in sharpening, it all adds up. The hardest thing I had to learn was the soft touch for finishing. My mind wants me to push hard and I had to overcome that. Keep practicing and you will perfect your technique. Of course, it will change with each knife you sharpen, but that's the fun thing about sharpening. You get to learn each knife and it's characteristics. To me, that is priceless.

 

[dawsonbob]

Sharp is being able to cut what you want to cut, the way you want to cut it. No more, no less.

Now that I've said that, I will also say that I've spent way too much time getting edges beyond reasonably sharp, and into stupidly sharp territory. Why? Because it's fun. Not necessarily useful or practical, but fun.

If you have a decent steel blade, you can get any edge to hair whittling sharp... if you have the skill. It's not about having a super set of sharpening tools, it's about learning how to use them properly. You really don't have to have hundreds of dollars worth of gear to sharpen well, but you do have to invest many hour of time learning how.

There are those around here (by the way, hi, hardheart) who can sharpen way, way beyond my pathetic abilities, yet even I can get a blade stupidly sharp, because I've taken the time to practice.

 

[unky_gumbi]

Too me hair whittling sharp is the same as the extreme overclockers in the PC world, its fun to do and just for bragging rights. I have pushed my PC up to the 4GHz mark tested it and brought it back to stock , I have also brought a knife up to hair whittling sharp, then went and cut down some boxes. Both were done just to see if I could, and if I can do it with a Smiths diamond hone set (course and fine) and a strop, you can surely get there if you want or feel the need

 

[theonew]

For carbon blades, scary sharp degrades just do to normal bits of microcorrosion right at the edge. So what is scary sharp today is merely sharp two weeks later.

That actually hasn't been my experience, see my unscientific test here.

 

[THG]

Sharpness is an agonizing thing when learned and tested in isolation. Folks have several types of standard tests from shaving hair to push cutting paper to slicing free hanging newsprint. There is also the whittling hair thingy which I find rather comical. In the end people over rate and exaggerate sharpness as part of the bragging rights to do so.

I used to agonize about this too much, never thinking my knives were sharp enough and constantly tweaking the edges. Then as I started meeting fellow BF members and knifemakers and handling their blades, I started to get over my insecurity complex on the whole issue. Even knives that were the most sharp I've ever handled, weren't nearly as sharp as my mind envisioned things like 'scary sharp' to be.

Also, despite what folks tell you, you don't have to have knives that are as sharp as conceivably possible for them to perform. This isn't saying that dull knives are good. Dull knives suck. But a sharp knife that can do simple things like shave hair and slice through paper with ease is all the sharp you ever need. In fact, those scary edges very quickly simply turn into sharp edges during use. They don't last much more than a couple of cuts. They are still sharp, and a long wearing steel will keep them sharp for long, but none will keep them scary sharp. For carbon blades, scary sharp degrades just do to normal bits of microcorrosion right at the edge. So what is scary sharp today is merely sharp two weeks later.

My advice is the handle a bunch of other user's blades and get over the sharpening addiction.

Agreed. If you actually use your knives, then I really don't see any point in getting the hair-whittling edges. One cut, and that's all over; then you go back and spend another half hour or however long it takes to get it back after you made just one cut.

If it can catch my finger nail with a slight touch and cut through paper smoothly, then it's good.

 

[hardheart]

it really only takes a couple minutes to restore a whittling edge

 

[Jason B.]

it really only takes a couple minutes to restore a whittling edge

I agree, The most I really ever need to do to my knives is go back to my UF ceramic or XXF diamond then re-strop. I don't know why some like to dis a sharp edge, in my experience a polished edge almost always cuts better and tends to last longer. How you determine sharpness will all depend on you experience and tools, the better the tools and the more experience you gain the more you views/understanding on sharpness will change.

 

[sodak]

In fact, those scary edges very quickly simply turn into sharp edges during use. They don't last much more than a couple of cuts. They are still sharp, and a long wearing steel will keep them sharp for long, but none will keep them scary sharp.

This is true, although I have been able to keep scary sharp for a while longer if only doing push cuts, such as whittling.

My advice is the handle a bunch of other user's blades and get over the sharpening addiction.

SILENCE! Such blasphemy must cease! What else would we have to angst about?

Seriously, while it's fun to chase the next level, it has to be put in perspective. But the chase is the fun part, just like wimmin. And we all learn something in the process.

 

[bgentry]

I'm really glad this topic was brought up. Especially the things I'm hearing about edge holding.

I've been getting what I think are impressive edges on some of my knives for a little while now, but nothing like what you guys think are "scary sharp". In some casual testing on thin cardboard, my edges stay sharp, but they roll a tiny bit and lose some sharpness. Say 10 slices though thin cardboard and they go from hair popping to still shaving sharp, but not quite.

Or chop 8 cloves of garlic and it goes from hair popping to just passable at shaving.

I shouldn't be surprised that such thin edges with good (but not super) steel won't hold up under much of a workload. I've been wondering for a while now if I was doing a bad job or if really fine edges just don't hold up for very long. I think I have my answer.

Brian.

 

[Jason B.]

I'm really glad this topic was brought up. Especially the things I'm hearing about edge holding.

I've been getting what I think are impressive edges on some of my knives for a little while now, but nothing like what you guys think are "scary sharp". In some casual testing on thin cardboard, my edges stay sharp, but they roll a tiny bit and lose some sharpness. Say 10 slices though thin cardboard and they go from hair popping to still shaving sharp, but not quite.

Or chop 8 cloves of garlic and it goes from hair popping to just passable at shaving.

I shouldn't be surprised that such thin edges with good (but not super) steel won't hold up under much of a workload. I've been wondering for a while now if I was doing a bad job or if really fine edges just don't hold up for very long. I think I have my answer.

Brian.

To understand how a knife holds its edge you need to have a understanding of the steel, the angles you sharpened at, and the material you are cutting. Cutting cardboard will dull any steel so your results are about average. Cutting garlic on the other hand is not really going to do much but hitting the cutting board will.

 

[bgentry]

^ Yeah, the cardboard was really thin (beer containers) but it did some "damage". Garlic itself is easy to slice, but when I want to chop or mince it, I end up rocking the blade a *LOT* on the cutting board, over and over to get fine pieces. So yes, the blade hits the board a lot and rocks on it at the contact points, all of which make Mister Edge not so happy.

But some touchup work and it'll be back to "sharp" again. Thanks for replying.

Brian.

 

[Jason B.]

^ Yeah, the cardboard was really thin (beer containers) but it did some "damage". Garlic itself is easy to slice, but when I want to chop or mince it, I end up rocking the blade a *LOT* on the cutting board, over and over to get fine pieces. So yes, the blade hits the board a lot and rocks on it at the contact points, all of which make Mister Edge not so happy.

But some touchup work and it'll be back to "sharp" again. Thanks for replying.

Brian.

So now their is even more to factor in, The cardboard you were cutting is compressed and has a surface coating (label) plus double corners that have heavy glue holing them together. Though it may seem thin that cardboard can sometimes do more damage than regular cardboard. The garlic cutting by rocking the blade usually involves turning putting side load to the edge, this is where most of the heavy damage, if any, came from.

 

[db]

Brian it kind of sounds like you are not getting the burr removed to me. A edge in my opinion should last longer than 10 cuts on a beer box and more than your garlic work as well. I'm assumeing your useing a proper cutting board and the beer is the typical 12 pack boxes. To remove the burr take a stroke or two per side at a higher angle as your very last sharpening strokes and see if you notice any improvement.

 

[sodak]

I've also found with thin edges, that wear in abrasive materials comes quicker with a slice than a push cut. I don't know if it's side loading, or the fact that the force in the cut isn't pushing back into the thicker part of the knife, or if the edge is getting "ripped" off...

 

[THG]

I agree, The most I really ever need to do to my knives is go back to my UF ceramic or XXF diamond then re-strop.

See, I just use one EF stone for about 5 minutes and I'm done. I don't have to play around with any other equipment.

I don't know why some like to dis a sharp edge

If by "sharp" you mean hair-whittling, mirror-polished... It's because it's like waiting 2 hours in line for a roller coaster for a 24-second ride. You spend extra time sharpening only for all that work to be undone after a single cut.

the better the tools and the more experience you gain the more you views/understanding on sharpness will change.

Agreed. My ideas are still changing all the time.