How sharp should I be able to get my knives?

I just find if a knife can push cut office paper, its just fine. I find the extra time to get a knife scary-sharp isn't worth it since it will get dull sometime, and doesn't help much more than a regular sharp edge in any cutting task other than whittling hair.
 
My Izula starts every day hair-whittlingly sharp. After a light day of cutting up some recycling, some pairing work in the kitchen, some boxes or packaging at the office, maybe a couple of branches for chew sticks for my dog it's usually still plenty sharp. But two minutes or less on a Spyderco UF ceramic in the evening gets it back to hair whittling sharpness. On the very rare occasions that it actually is too dull to even shave arm hair with, a couple of minutes on a DMT extra fine and two more on the ceramic brings it right back. If this qualifies me as a knut-job well so be it :D
 
THG said:
See, I just use one EF stone for about 5 minutes and I'm done. I don't have to play around with any other equipment.



If by "sharp" you mean hair-whittling, mirror-polished... It's because it's like waiting 2 hours in line for a roller coaster for a 24-second ride. You spend extra time sharpening only for all that work to be undone after a single cut.



Agreed. My ideas are still changing all the time.
Click to expand...

It really does not take anymore time, about 2-3 minutes on the xxf to bring it back to about hair whittling and another few minutes on a 1 micron strop to remove the remaining burr and bring the edge to that next level. Just like sharpening their are several levels of stropped sharpness and yes if I want a perfect mirror edge it would take some time. The xxf diamond refines it enough that for a non-show blade it only needs about 20 passes on the strop to complete and have a edge that makes fuzz sticks out of hair.
 
What are you cutting that the edge is gone in 1 cut? My BM 805 TSEK has had a hair whittling edge since I got it back from the blade replacement about a year ago.
 
The gear you have listed used correctly should
be capable of producing the edges you seek if used
correctly. Are you also using any type of strop to finish
your edges?
 
I dont have a strop. I tried Magazine covers and my belt. They usually make the blade duller. The times I have been able to get a blade to whittle hair , I used the 30 degree until I could no longer improve its edge. Then about 4 light passes per side at 40 degrees. The knives were a BUCK slimline and a CASE xxx paring knife.

Often when I get a knife to easily shave hair, it gets duller when I keep working it, even with extra light swipes.
 
I figured I'd ruffle a few feathers with my remarks, but I was responding more to Dipbait personally since he hangs around and posts in W&SS a great deal I was projecting my own experiences in the matter of getting carried away with sharpness and how this reflects actual bushcraft type field chores. I understand theonew has a different perspective too :D

Dipbait, the comments about a wire edge is a really valid one. One of the reasons I think going from 30 degree sharpening to 40 degree light strokes helps so much is that this is very effective at removing thin burr/wire edge.

Another thing that helps is to keep a piece of softwood around, like popular, basswood or cottonwood. After 5 or so strokes on your sharpmaker or flat stone, run the edge perpendicular to the piece of wood, like you were cutting it, but with just light pressure. You will see a bunch of gunk coming off the edge and onto the piece of wood. Often, this action will loosen, and sometimes completely take the bur with it. I now do this routinely when I use the sharpmaker and find that it has helped a great deal.

Buck's 420HC is a great steel to learn to sharpen with. It will take a very good edge (perhaps not hold it too long, but it takes a good edge) and is not too difficult to sharpen. Another great practice knife is an opinel. The high carbon takes an excellent edge, better then the buck IMO. Opinel's come with a convex profile to begin with, but they work really well tweaked with a ceramic stone.
 
You're on the right track bro. I'd suggest when you
do your next blade try a slightly lower finishing angle
like maybe 32 to 35 degrees rather than 40 and use
less pressure along with more passes to get your final
finish.

Stropping.. A fine strop will make the edge feel
smoother and less toothy usually. Sometimes you
will want a toothier edge but this can come at a cost
of edge longevity and durability. It's a very fine line
you will dance when trying to get the perfect edge.
If you are wanting the hair carving type edge you should
get ahold of a heavy leather bench strop and the appropriate
stropping compound. Used correctly your strop or strops will
refine and improve the edges on your knives beyond the edges
you are currently producing.
 
me2 said:
What are you cutting that the edge is gone in 1 cut? My BM 805 TSEK has had a hair whittling edge since I got it back from the blade replacement about a year ago.
Click to expand...

Pretty much anything except paper, tape, hair, and other various little things. If you cut anything medium duty, that edge is gone in one cut.
 
db said:
Brian it kind of sounds like you are not getting the burr removed to me. A edge in my opinion should last longer than 10 cuts on a beer box and more than your garlic work as well. I'm assumeing your useing a proper cutting board and the beer is the typical 12 pack boxes. To remove the burr take a stroke or two per side at a higher angle as your very last sharpening strokes and see if you notice any improvement.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure I'm getting rid of the burr. I feel for it as I sharpen and when it turns to one side, I do strokes on that side trying to eliminate it. If I happen to flip it to the other side, I do strokes on that side and repeat as necessary until I can't feel it any more. I also occasionally run the edge through the end of a piece of cardboard, lightly, just like many people do with soft wood endgrain to remove the burr. I generally follow that step up with a few alternating strokes, and again, test for the burr when I'm done.

As for my cutting: I just resharpened my chef's knife and butchered up a six pack container. Not the heavier 12 pack containers that are corrugated: The lighter single layer stuff that six pack holders are made of. I did around 15 cuts until it was in smallish pieces; half and half push cuts and slicing.

When I was done, I felt the edge and it had rolled slightly to one side. It still mostly popped hair, cutting both directions though. 3 strokes on the strop on that side, and it was rolled slightly the other way. A dozen more back and forth, feeling for it, and the edge was aligned again. My previous post was from memory; this one is accurate.

However, when I sharpened this time, I decided to stop at the Spyderco medium ceramic (600 to 800 grit), and then strop a bit on CrO loaded leather. I'm not sure if this helped, or was the same as my previous experiments.

Finally, yes, I'm cutting on a proper cutting board: Made of bamboo in this case. You have to understand that when I say I chopped garlic, it wasn't a 30 second operation. It's more like 4 to 6 minutes of nearly continuous chopping, piling it up, and chopping some more, plus all of the stemming and slicing before the chopping. I'm sure my knife technique could use some help, and I'm also sure that the rocking of the knife on the rounded part of the blade is hard on the edge.

I really should have started a thread about this a while back. Maybe I will later if I have the motivation.

Brian.
 
You might be aligning a very small burr instead of getting rid of it. Ceramics tend to make burrs easier then wet- dry or diamond.
 
It does not matter how good a sharpener you are if your sharpening on a stone you always have a burr, even with diamond hones though its reduced to almost nothing you still have one. Stropping seems to be one of the only effective ways to truly remove it.

Ceramics produce some of the largest burrs of all stones.
 
Yes you can align a burr and you may think you have removed it. However, it does sound like you have taken steps to remove the burr. Alot of chef knives are pretty soft and cardboard on a thin soft knife can easily roll the edge, and the same thing will happen with a aligned burr. For both I'd still suggest a stroke or two at a higher angle. and see if you get a longer lasting edge without giving up any cutting ability. I took my Chicago Cutlery boning knife and cut up a Coke 12 pack box into many little peices and had no rolling of the edge at all. The edge on this knife is pretty thin but I free hand it and it is convexed. I guesstamate the edge to be no more than 15 degree per side at the most. I do use alot of fresh garlic for alot of my cooking and I really think it is very easy on edges if useing a cuttingboard. but everyone cutts a little differently and results can vary. I personally can mince up alot of garlic without any noticable difference in the edge. Heck normally the garlic is the first thing I start cutting and go on to the other stuff afterwards. Btw I'm having a Abita Turbodog brown ale right now and it is a great beer. The 12 pack box of bottles is the heavyer cardboard no cutting on it yet. :)
I want to add that I myself for a long time was getting super sharp edges that didnt really last very long. What I had without knowing was a aligned burr. These aligned burrs are so sharp that you can do a fair amount of light work with them before they roll or start breaking off. It can be hard to know if a burr is removed or just aligned until you really look for it. A clean edge will outlast the burr edge so much that I even now think if an edge hasn't lasted for a good amount that it is a burr problem even on cheaper soft steel knives.
 
Last edited:
bgentry said:
I'm pretty sure I'm getting rid of the burr. I feel for it as I sharpen and when it turns to one side, I do strokes on that side trying to eliminate it. If I happen to flip it to the other side, I do strokes on that side and repeat as necessary until I can't feel it any more.
Click to expand...

In my experience, feeling for the burr is the least effective way of detecting one. Looking in bright light is best for me. I can see them better than I can feel them; I've seen some medium-sized burrs that are very obvious in the light, but when I feel for them, it feels rather smooth.
 
if you have a convex edge, and just hit it on a loaded strop for a few strokes per side after use at night, you are right back to hair popping sharp.

nothing quicker or easier (unless you mess up your edge, then it will take a bit longer).
 
Bigfattyt said:
if you have a convex edge, and just hit it on a loaded strop for a few strokes per side after use at night, you are right back to hair popping sharp.

nothing quicker or easier (unless you mess up your edge, then it will take a bit longer).
Click to expand...

But that doesn't work on a V-grind :confused:
 
Well thanks everybody. My knives are decently sharp and a some friends and family members have me sharpen theirs. Id just like to have a couple to show off with. Whittling hair is a neat trick.
 
dipbait said:
Well thanks everybody. My knives are decently sharp and a some friends and family members have me sharpen theirs. Id just like to have a couple to show off with. Whittling hair is a neat trick.
Click to expand...
Being able to sharpen knives is like owning a pickup truck. You're usually the first one called when someone needs something hauled. :grumpy::D I don't know where I stand against any of the pros here but my knives are the sharpest among my friends and family. A friend of mine tells me I'm crazy. Not because of what I consider sharp but because of what I consider dull.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top