How sharp? -- tips & techniques

Michael_Aos

Michael_Aos

Joined
Jan 25, 2001
Messages
1,639
I bought a Benchmade 750 & a Spyderco 204 tri-angle sharpmaker yesterday.

The BM was downright dull, so I back-beveled it at 30 degrees, then went through steps 1-4 at 40 degrees. It's sorta sharp -- I can cut newsprint fairly well and will shave the back of my hand, but it's nowhere NEAR scary sharp.

In fact, it seems like the more time I spent on stage-4, the DULLER it gets, not sharper.

I bought the Spyderco because my Chefs Choice 120 3-stage was scratching my knives. The spyderco doesn't do that, but I sure wish they were sharper.

Any tips from longtime 204 owners?

Mike
 
Hi Michael, I've been using a 203(which is basically the same thing as a 204, minus the second sharpening angle) for years, with excellent results. I get my knives extremely sharp on this system, and I'm sorry to hear you're not getting the same results. There is really no better way to sharpen serrated edges, as well.
Good luck to you
smile.gif
 
Light pressure, patience and care not to put too much pressure near the tip as the blade leaves the ceramic are tips that have helped me get more out of my 204.
 
Maybe your back beveling did not go far enough. When you put a smooth edge on a blade (which I guess is what you did at 40 degrees with fine ceramic rods) your edge cleaves material with so little damage that the material drags on the blade through sort of adhesion. You either need a lot of edge relief ala a thin back bevel/hollow grind or you need a rougher cutting edge. See what happens if you go back a bit with your medium grit rods and a little stropping on a leather belt (with no polishing compound).
 
Hi. Just yesterday I had the same problem. This is what's happening. You are sharpening the knife at a different angle than it was originally sharpened. In effect, you are rebevelling the knife, which may take a long long time. Two things to try... use a sharpie to mark the edge of your blade, take a few strokes and look to see if you're sharpening all the way to the edge. It's much easier to tell because you can see where the marker has been scraped off. (You may need to use a magnifying glass or loupe to tell) Another tip: Make sure the stones aren't 'loaded' with metal. The sharpmaker stones cut pretty well when they're clean but if they get clogged, then you can sharpen for hours with almost no progress.

Good luck.

--Matt

BTW, read the sharpening FAQ on this site. Joe Talmadge did an excellent job on this FAQ. I learned a whole lot (and knowledge of what's actually happening is very important...)

Good luck!!
 
It takes a little while for you to get the "hang" of the spydie. For me I just have to be careful when I change stones not to also change the blade angle. I know it may sound foolish but I have found that when I try to go through the process slow and careful I blow it. However, when I do it with a quick rhythm I am able to get MUCH better results. Keep at it and you'll find that you can get OUTSTANDING results!
 
I'll whole-heartedly second using the magic marker trick. Mark up the edge with a magic marker, then re-sharpen your 30-degree back-bevels. How much magic marker is gone will tell you how close you're getting. I like to take the back bevel to within about 1/64" of the very edge tip. Be patient, this can take a lot of time! But once you do it the first time, in the future it will go much faster.

When I switch to the 20 degree stones, I do not follow Spyderco's directions, instead I use the burr method. Most people who've read the FAQ use the burr method instead of Spyderco's, I believe. I can point you at a description if you're interested.

Joe
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Mundele:
Hi. Just yesterday I had the same problem. This is what's happening. You are sharpening the knife at a different angle than it was originally sharpened. </font>
Click to expand...

I think I figured out most of my problem. I'm using the Sharpmaker left-handed, and even with an equal number of strokes on both sides, I wind up with a burr on the right-hand side of the knife.

I'm finding if I finish off with an extra two strokes on the right-hand side, it knocks off the burr and it's MUCH sharper now.

Thanks,

Mike
 
When I use ceramic rods I can feel uneven drag on the opposite sides if I'm getting more burr on one side. I do my evening out somewhat by feel. I also super-elevate my angle (say to 25 degrees per side) for a few strokes when I near the end to cut off any burr. Then I go back to my regular angle for a few strokes on medium rods and several strokes on fine rods to finish. This depends a lot on blade alloy. Some alloys leave more of a burr than others.
 
I agree with Joe. In fact, Joe is the one who told me via an e-mail to work the blade until you get a burr. I sharpened my Cold Steel SRK today and its scary sharp. When I recieved my SRK it wasn't very sharp. This is how I got it scary sharp using a standard Lansky system.

1) I rebeveled the edge with the coarse stone until i got a burr on one side. Then with the coarse stone I rebeveled the edge until I got a burr on the other side. It took about 25 minutes. This was do to the fact that unlike most cold steel knives this did not have a consistant factory edge and was preety dull when I recieved it.

2) next I used the medium and the fine stones to polish off the coase edge. this took only about 5 minutes total.

This knife will shave the hair off your arm just by getting close to it.

The key for me, was to use the coarse stone to get a consistant bevel with the burrs. By the way, the burrs need to run the length of the blade. Also if you expect to feel this large burr thats poping off the knife, you won't. The burr is very small and it will barely catch the skin on your finger.

Thanks for the advice Joe!!!!!!!!!!
 
Are the stones loaded with metal? I have used my 203 for nearly two years now an had been scrubbing them with a nylon pad. Well they still looked dirty. The other day I used an abrasive cleaner as well and bamm! They are like new almost! The difference is astonishing! Well worth a try. I will now turn to my profile set and give them a clean...

W.A.

------------------
"To strive to seek to find and not to yield"
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An abrasive cleaner like Ajax, Comet, or a gritty hand cleaner will take the metal filings right off and make them stones seem new. I can tell a big difference when I do this. I wpould also suggest trying to find some of the diamond sleeves Spyderco once made. These are the best thing I have ever found to cut a edge quickly. They remove metal fast! Only problems are;
1- out of production
2- if you do find some they will not slide over the newer rods.

------------------
Art Sigmon
"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me"
Php. 4:13

"For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword"
Heb. 4:12
 
There's a lot of good advice here.
One alternative, not mentioned is, if you can afford it, to can the Sharpmaker, and get an Edge Pro.
I have both the old Sharpmaker with the diamond speed sleeves and the newer one. But the Edge Pro is in a class above. Why? Fast metal removal, and infinitely adjustable and repeatable edge angles, throughout the length of the blade.
Check out the site for Edge Pro here:
http://business.gorge.net/edgepro/
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Erikfsn:
There's a lot of good advice here.
One alternative, not mentioned is, if you can afford it, to can the Sharpmaker, and get an Edge Pro... the Edge Pro is in a class above. Why? Fast metal removal, and infinitely adjustable and repeatable edge angles, throughout the length of the blade.
Check out the site for Edge Pro here:
http://business.gorge.net/edgepro/</font>
Click to expand...

I like my Sharpmaker for serrations and touching up a couple of Stellite kitchen paring knives (excellent for both), but haven't spent the time to master on my folders. I felt like I was wasting time with it, took forever to reprofile anything ... to remove much metal on new knives. Reprofiling probably is best on something else IMHO. So I never spent the time to master a quick re-edge-ing of an already profiled knife. If you grow frustrated w/ the Spydie, then consider the jig sharpeners. But might as well give it some time/practice.

When I got the Sharpmaker, I already could get a good, consistent, toothy and shaving sharp working edge, and quickly, on my Lansky jig sharpener with diamonds stones (highly recommend diamond ... makes hard and CPM stuff no biggie). You still do a lot of work to reprofile, but I can see what I'm doing, and know the angle stays true (aside from slight variation due to radius of stroke for those who know).

The EdgePro takes the "ok" design of the Lansky to the next level for sure. Get diamond stones. Cry hard about the price when you buy them, and then enjoy them for long periods.
 
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