How strong is strong

By what standard were you judging it? Which large knife of that class have you used which doesn't have "beautiful" performance in comparison?

-Cliff
 
Cliff,

My review spoke for itself. Comparative reviews are only one kind of review. There are some I've used that did not perform beautifully. They usually just don't suit me for one reason or another: some functionally, some aesthetically. Sometimes, I just don't like a knife, even if it performs, for whatever reason. That's why reviews are always subjective. The user is part of the equation, not a knife's performance in a vacuum. There is no objectivity in a review. There is always bias. Humans are subjective by nature, even when they think they are not. So, when I do a review, or you do one, or anybody does one, you have to consider the source (person writing the review) and the enviroment of any particular review to decide if you feel comfortable checking out a particular piece, and if it applies in your own environment and needs. Nothing works for everyone. A review of a wilderness knife done in a lab and in the backyard does not take into account all the factors of real survival such as stress, fatigue, awareness, calorie consumption and replacement, the order of meeting your survival needs, the terrain of the real world, and how these all really affect you emotionally, physically, intellectually, and even spiritually.

This knife worked for me. My reviews are: it worked for what I needed to do in the WILDERNESS -- when I actually RELIED on it to meet my needs -- doing the actual skills that will be used in the REAL WORLD. I haven't found a cinderblock in the outback of Idaho, the jungles of Peru, Costa Rica, and Belize, the mountains of Glacier National Park, the deserts of California, the Sierra Nevada range, the Chilean Andes, the Alps, the mountains of Northern Japan, the mountains of Nepal, all of which I have been to, and practiced my skills in. That's just a partial list. If I did find a cinderblock, I wouldn't destroy it (especially with my knife!!!!)...I'd use it to improvise to meet my needs.

"Beautiful" means I liked it, and it did everything I needed it to in REAL WORLD conditions. But that wasn't part of the review, just my comment in the last post. Most people accept things like that to help them decide.

I forgot to lug my cinder block and microscope out there -- silly me. Got a microscope I can borrow? An electron microscope won't work, because carrying a generator, laptop, and gas tanks for the generator -- well, it's just a few pounds more than I like to carry.

Oh, well, maybe next time you can join me and carry 100 Lbs. of knives, the whole electron set-up, etc., for me. Then we can do comparative reviews "Stamp-Style..." :eek:
 
Brian Jones said:
That's why reviews are always subjective.
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The word subjective has two basic definations, the first is "in the mind" meaning it only exists mentally and not physically, imagined. The second is that it only exists for the individual. Some parts of a knife review are subject to the user, handle ergonomics for example. However since all people have similar hands (for the most part), there are general rules which if you break will find a lot of people making the same complaints so it starts not being subjective anymore, sharp edges and so forth.

If you are vastly abnormal, then your comments are more and more subjective. I know people with severe physical deformities in the hands and thus you can't apply thieir comments about ergonomics and security to the population as a whole. But of course you can for average people, there is in fact a whole branch of science devoted to exactly this, the design of ergonomic tools and equipment, there is even a lab for it at Mun, so no, you can't dismiss it as subjective.

Read "The axe book" for example which has various chapters devoted to every aspect of what makes an axe work and is in no way subjective, talking about such things as the precision and accuracy effected by handle curvature and head alignment, then going into detail about the head should be ground for the various types of wood and how to adjust this based on feedback. You can for example take an axe with a slightly offset head and any experienced axeman would know from a glance that while it would "work" it would not do so optimally, not a subjective issue. There are some of course like head weight, the stronger you are the heavier head tends to be ran.

This knife worked for me.
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I could take any cheap hardware store axe, and without even sharpening it cut down and limb out a truckload of wood, buck it to lengths, and split it. However while it would certainly work, it would not do so very well, it would be outperformed many to one by various higher quality axes, Iltis makes a decent moderate/hardwood axes now specifically.

Just like while the Brute would also cut and chop pretty much anything, it will be vastly outperformed by several other designs because of basic physical laws, this is irregardless of the person using them. Of course users will have refinement, such as how far you can push on edge geometry, different people will have different tolerances based on skill and physical strength. You make the feedback meaningful by defining the terms using baselines.

Thus for example if somone notes they they think the Spyderco Paramilitary is their standard for a quality cutting blade you can judge their opinon of sub and above average grades. The more details they give the more meaningful it gets. Check Mike Swaims posts on rec.knives about a dozen years back to see how it should be done.

But yes it [Brute] will work, in the sense that if you put enough effort behind it you will get the job done, the same can be said of any knife of course on just about any job if you have enough skill and time. I can cut down a tree with a fillet knife if was so inclined, it will work in that sense.

I haven't found a cinderblock in ...
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No rocks there either? Must be nice :

http://photobucket.com/albums/y269/CliffStamp/Heafner%20Bowie/?action=view&current=hb_rocks.jpg

Of course why you are using blades which such over built edge geometries when you never hit inclusions is problematic. With this restricted scope of work a more optimal edge profile would be vastly slimmer, allowing a much higher level of cutting ability, many to one.

And again this would not be in any way subjective, any two people would note the difference in cutting ability and the potential for a gain is very large on the Brute give the amount of steel which could be removed.

Ask someone like Ray Kirk to make you a pure wood cutting blade and try it out some time to see just what can be achieved.

-Cliff
 
Brian, sounds lie your trips to these various locations and using a knife for real does not mean squat to Cliff. Think how much money you could save by staying home and only venturing out to your backyard full of cinder blocks. And how much more useful you reviews would be :)
 
hmm...guys i am using the 10" range already and would like something to back it up...i already use a CS LTC and SPEC plus 10. Swamp rat, busse or ranger knives are "unavailble here".
so i am limited in choice i am left with

BK/T 7
Bk/T 9
Bk/T 2 Campanion
Bk/T 1 brute
Bk/T 10
SOG TS
SOG seal 2k
SOG X-42 recondo
SOG field knife
CRKT first strike 4.5"
CS SRK
Ka bar d2 extreme fighting knife...too expensive
maybe one or two 7" ontario spec plus
 
Okay lets just count chopping, tough, and can take slight abuse...no prying makes things much easier
 
sak_collector said:
...using a knife for real does not mean squat to Cliff
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If all you say is "it works", then yes that doesn't mean anything because it is completely subjective and undefined. In order to make it meaningful you would have to know the individual very well and their expectations.

When I give blades to friends I can judge their comments because I know their references. My brother for example compares the chopping and cutting ability of large blades to the Trailmaster and the durabilty to the Basic #7. Thus when he says something chops well and is durable, it is far above average.

Some of his friends however have only used very low end blades so when they say the same thing it means something very different. Lots of them would be very impressed with the cutting and chopping ability of the Brute while my brother would not even take it out to use it as he has no time for that profile anymore.

wadly said:
..no prying
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CU/9 is pretty solid when that is excluded. Easily take it over the other knives listed.

-Cliff
 
wadly I would take Brian Jones opinion seriously. He is associated with Ron Hood who is an expert in the field of survival. I take Ron's and Brian's word as gospel when it comes to the question of proper equipment. They are real world experts and not backyard bullsh**ters. I would like to add my two cents, I would highly recommend anything made with 5160 and convex ground. With what you are describing, you'll need plenty of lateral strength across the mid section of the blade. Convex is the way to go and that my friend, ain't no bulls**t
Scott
 
Get a BK9 and beat the snot out of it. I think you wont need to replace it, but if you do manage to break it or render it useless you are not out that much money and it will give you invaluable insight of what to get next.

So, BK9, get a better sheath and maybe mod the handle and you should be set for well within your budget.
 
I would get an M-9 bayonet/knife that the US military uses. It has been tested in hellashish conditions for sure. You want tough this is it without breaking the bank.

www.SoGear.Com
 
I recently bought a Brute based on Mr. Jones' review, and I have been very happy with it so far.

Regards, Vince
 
I would add

- the SOG seal pup elite: AUS8 stainless steel (easy care), 4,75in, 0.185 thickness, nicely grooved handle.
- Blackjack grunt: AUS8, 5,5 in, convex edge, should easily overcut the SOG seal pup elite thanks to its better geometry, but maybe not as stout...

Well, those might be worth to be considered to backup a 10" knife. Both are in the same price range (~$75).

just my 0.02...
 
If you want to keep the cost down, go with Justin Gingrich aka Ranger Knives. His RD series are a great buy. 5160 steel and if you talk to Justin, he may customize it to your specs. Great maker and a pleasure to deal with.
Scott
 
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