How to avoid scale on engraving?

Alex T.

Alex T.

Beginner knifemaker
Joined
Mar 10, 2019
Messages
119
I just finished this little clip point and I was wondering, how the hell could I avoid having scales on the engraved part of the knife? I suppose it would be a real pain to remove the scales/black and polish after heat treat. Its a bit sad that the pictures dont show the texture very well. Should I go for a edge quench? Thanks for you help and feedback is welcome :) also my first try at a tapered tang
http://imgur.com/gallery/rFBhmbD
http://imgur.com/gallery/XFl2Upi
 
I can see the image and gif through your links just fine (EDIT: at this point in time).

Reffering to avoiding scale from heat-treatment, try wrapping the blade in stainless steel sheet/foil before hardening. Be sure to take the steel out of the foil packet before quenching, if necessary (1095, other high carbon steels that you can't plate quench).
 
The_Iron_Joe said:
I can see the image and gif through your links just fine.

Reffering to avoiding scale from heat-treatment, try wrapping the blade in stainless steel sheet/foil before hardening. Be sure to take the steel out of the foil packet before quenching, if necessary (1095, other high carbon steels that you can't plate quench).
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Thank you! I was wondering why no one could see them. I will try this method. My steel is 5160
 
Is there another alternative? I just saw the price, it seems a bit pricy for only one knife lol
 
Looney36 said:
Is there another alternative? I just saw the price, it seems a bit pricy for only one knife lol
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Unfortunately there aren't many ways that won't cost at least a little bit. You can attempt to use certain compounds that are used as a dip, and bake onto the blade to help inhibit scale... But I'm very much blanking on the name of the compound in question, sorry. The end goal is the same, however; you're trying to prevent oxygen from contacting the blade.

EDIT; you could also mail out your blade for heat treatment, see if there is anyone near you who can help.
 
The_Iron_Joe said:
Unfortunately there aren't many ways that won't cost at least a little bit. You can attempt to use certain compounds that are used as a dip, and bake onto the blade to help inhibit scale... But I'm very much blanking on the name of the compound in question, sorry. The end goal is the same, however; you're trying to prevent oxygen from contacting the blade.

EDIT; you could also mail out your blade for heat treatment, see if there is anyone near you who can help.
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I will look into this, I might also go with the foil since I really love engraving/ornementate my blades. Thank you for the fast answer!
 
Looney36 said:
I will look into this, I might also go with the foil since I really love engraving/ornementate my blades. Thank you for the fast answer!
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No worries, glad to have helped. I'll be looking forward to seeing the end results!
 
John mc c said:
A thin coat of watered down satanite would stop scale
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I don't have satinite avaible near me, but that gave an idea to put borax on the blade diluted in rubing alcool? If it works for forge forge welding it must work for this purpose?
 
Borax is acid. It doesn’t really prevent scale, it kinda dissolves it...

Plus it’ll eat a hole in your forge if you don’t build the forge for it.
 
A.McPherson said:
Borax is acid. It doesn’t really prevent scale, it kinda dissolves it...

Plus it’ll eat a hole in your forge if you don’t build the forge for it.
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Oh ok. Would coating the engraved part of theblade with refractory cement work?
 
Paint it with white metallic paint - amazing how well it works. White metallic paint is 10% to 25% TiO2 and works pretty darn good. Try a small sample piece in the forge heating to 1500F for a few minutes to confirm it works. You ARE using a muffler tube for HT'ing are you not? Muffler tube is almost a must for HT work in a forge.
 
Ken H> said:
Paint it with white metallic paint - amazing how well it works. White metallic paint is 10% to 25% TiO2 and works pretty darn good. Try a small sample piece in the forge heating to 1500F for a few minutes to confirm it works. You ARE using a muffler tube for HT'ing are you not? Muffler tube is almost a must for HT work in a forge.
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Yes I do use a pipe in for heat treat and thanks for this advice!

John mc c said:
Satanite is refactory cement
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Good to know, I always wondered what was the difference between both

I will probably try both methods on samples and see what works best.
 
I've spent the day doing both for first time actually
Used thin wash of cement on some blades and high temp paint on others
They both cracked and let the heat on the blades in couple of places bit worked ok where it worked
Was no biggie to me as I left loads of meat on the bone to grind off any decarb but would have been ugly on your engravings
Try it and see you might have better luck
The ss foil definitely wouldn't crack
 
also if your forge is fuel rich it makes less scale. if you have blue flame coming out of the forge opening, your are fuel rich.
 
Ok so from what I understand, I should coat the engraved part with something that will keep oxygen outside, use the lowest air intake possible and a lot of fuel (would making smaller nuts of charcoal burn more oxygen because of the bigger surface area thus preventing scales?) Would it help if I also try to heat only the bevel?
 
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