How to Buy an Outdoor Knife

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Aug 18, 1999
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George Herter ran an old-timey sporting goods store out of Mitchell S.D. It was quite an operation in its day (similar to Cabelas) but for whatever reason declined, I think in the mid to late 70s. I think it is still in business, selling decoys and whatnot to wildfowl hunters. Perhaps there are many of you out there that know more of the story or can correct my errors.

Anyway, I don't think the word modest could be used to describe George. And he was quite opinionated. One of the books he wrote that he sold in his catalog was "How to Live With a Bitch." Perhaps political correctness drove George out of the business, I don't know.

One of the books George wrote was called "Professional Guide's Manual," written for the North Star Guide Association. There are a lot of wonderful tips in the book about hunting and fishing. I learned how to clean a squirrel from this book and I cured some stomach problems I once hand using a tip from this book.

One section, How to Buy an Outdoor Knife I thought might be interesting for discussion on this forum.

Excuse my typos but here it goes:

How to Buy an Outdoor Knife by George Leonard Herter

An outdoor knife must be made for service--not show. Your life may depend on it. Real outdoor people realize that so-called sportsmen or outdoor knives have long been made for sale, not for use. The movies and television show their characters wearing fancy sheath knives. Knife makers advertised them and drugstore outdoorsmen bought them. [insert a picture that looks something like a Marble Woodcraft or an old Western fixed blade here] Nothing marks a man to be a tenderfoot more than these showy useless knives.

Here are some of the duties a true woodsman knife must perform:

1. The knife must stay sharp for long periods of time without shapening. The steel should combine the best characteristics of electric furnace quality high carbon 1095 steel and high carbon 440 B stainless steel. The blade hardness, known among steel experts as 56 Rockwell C, should not be affected by atmospheric moisture, salt spray, fruit acids or blood. It should withstand extreme temperatures without becoming brittle, no matter how cold it may be. A good steel knife blade will "blue" or darken itself with use, making it pratically rustproof. If knife blade steel is really good, it will cut through nails without bending over the edge. [hmmmm where's those busse and mad dog knives?]

2. The knife must be shaped so it is ideal for cleaning and skinning game of all kinds, from rabbits to moose. The best shape for this is the improved Bowie.

3. The knife must have a handle long enough so that it fits a man's hand so pressure can be put on the blade when desired. On nearly all outdoor knives the handles are emuch too short. The handle of the knife must be made to last a lifetime. Leather handles rot and mildew, stag handles crack, plastic handles crack and are highly inflammable. African mineral-type woods are best, and they will stand all kinds of weather for a lifetime and more.

4. The blade of the knife must not be hollow ground. Hollow grinding weakens a blade so that the edge will bend or break under heavy usage. A wedge edge is the strongest and most durable ever designed.

5. The blade of the knife must be hand forged in order to give the steel maximum strength and hardness.

6. The blade of the knife must not have a blood groove. A blood groove is strictly advertising and badly weakens the blade. Professional butchers do not use them.

7. The knife must be easy to carry and light in weight. The blade length must be 4 inches long. Four inches is the length established for a woodsman knife by over 200 years of experience. Blades shorter are all right for Boy Scouts, but not for serious woodsmen, Longer than 4 inches is unnecessary and adds weight.

8. The knife should have no hilt as it only adds weight. If the knife blade is properly designed, that is slightly indented, you cannot cut your finger no matter how hard you thrust. You need only thrust in a hand to hand combat with a man or a wounded animal.

9. The knife must be capable of slicing bacon and cutting bread. It must be a comfortable knife for eating and cutting cooked meat.

I dislike seeming prejudiced but the George L. Herter knife made by Herter's is and has been the choice of real outdoor people. [insert picture here of a knife that looks almost identical to the Grohman #1]

And as Uncle Bill would say, let 'r buck!


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Hoodoo

This time, like all times, is a very good one, if we but know what to do with it.
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
 
Boy, that brings me back! I used to love reading the Herter's catalog.... "Quality"! Only catalog I ever read with the word "quality" used as an adjective to describe every product -- "this is a quality knife" "this is a quality hunting jacket" -- everything in the catalog was ... quality!
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A large part of their business was guns, especially barreled actions. Mail-order sale of guns and barreled actions was banned by the 1968 Politician Protection Act. They continued in business for a while after that, but the general decline in the mail-order catalog business finished them off. They are missed.

-Cougar Allen :{)
 
Hoodoo,

Thanks for the nice read. I miss the days when we use to walk into a retail store to find enthusiatic and knowlegeable (if opinionated) sales staffs. Maybe the internet can bring some of that back.

Can't disagree with his thoughs on knives, although, I kind of like those classic leather handled patterns - and figure that my boots will rot and fail long before my knife handle does.
 
Excerpt from Horace Kephart "Camping and Woodcraft" (first published 1917).

"...The convetional hunting knife is, or was until recently, of the familiar dime novel pattern invented by Colonel Bowie. It is too thick and clumsy to whittle with, much too thick for a good skinning knife, and too sharply pointed to cook and eat with. It is always temperes too hard. When put to the rough service for which it is supposed to be intended ...it is an even bet that out will come a nick as big as a saw-tooth... Such a knife is shaped expressly for stabbing, which is about the very last thing that a woodsman ever has occasion to do...

For years I used a knife of my own design, because there was nothing on the market that met my notion of what a sensible, practical sheath knife should be; but we know have it in the knife here shown (author adds picture of what looks to be a Marbles Woodcraft c.1916). It is of the right size (4 1/2" blade), the right shape, and the proper thickness...The sheath being flimsy, and the buttoned band a nuisance, I made one of good leather that binds well up on the handle and is fastened together with copper rivets besides the sewing."



[This message has been edited by not2sharp (edited 27 November 1999).]
 
Thanks for the nice post Hoodoo. I wish Ed Fowler, Jim Crowell, Jerry Fisk, and a few others were reading and posting on Bladeforums. Their concepts of the ideal using knife are similar in some ways to Mr. Herters, and quite different in others. I just think that there is no such thing as the 'perfect' using knife, although examples made by the gentlemen listed above come very very close.

I like forged differentially tempered tool steel, distal taper, light weight (not too thick), 4 to 5 inch drop point or lift-point blade, wood handles or scales, and flat (wedge?) grind. I agree with Mr. Fowler about the importance of a good guard on a using knife, unless the blade is designed with an integral guard.

Paracelsus
 
So I've been working on my own hunting knife design over the last few weeks. I didn't like the idea that I had to use my pocket knife on rabbits cause my elk knife point was too broad.

The current configuration is 4.5" long (a little extra length for the elk), .8" wide, .125" thick, 2.5" back-edge clip (maybe concave), long handle, modest projection between blade and handle for the web of my thumb when I use the blade inverted to open abdominal cavities, BG-42 blade, slightly hollow ground. The clip point is to keep the tip narrow for rabbits, hollow ground to permit easy maintenence of a very sharp edge, BG-42 to keep the narrow edge and pointy tip strong.

Except for the handle size this starts to look a lot like some classic Buck designs. When they used 440C in the blades they were awfully elegant knives.
 
The Woodcraftt is an interesting knife. I wonder how the old Woodcrafts compared to the new Woodcrafts? I'm betting the new Woodcrafts are superior. I think the newer Woodcrafts also have a bigger handle than the originals.

I just did a mini-test between a Schrade Sharpfinger, a Grohmann Camper and a Marble Fieldcraft, testing to see how easily they would cut through 1/4" dowel and 3/8 manilla. The Sharpfinger and Camper were sharpened by me, the Sharpfinger on a Gatco and then a Spydie 204 and the Camper on the 204. Both knives were stropped and shaving sharp. The Fieldcraft was razor sharp right out of the box.

The winner? Clearly the Fieldcraft. It easily sliced clean through the dowel. Both the Sharpfinger and the Camper usually took two swipes, but the Camper sometimes took one swipe.

Only the Fieldcraft could cut through the rope in one pass and it did this easily. The Camper was second with an average of 4 passes and the Sharpfinger 3rd with 5 passes.

Probably a more fair test is to sharpen all the blades the same way. Perhaps if I "roughsharpen" them and try again, I'll get different results. But as it stands, I'm impressed as all getout with the Fieldcraft. Glad I have 3 of them.
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I think I need some Woodcrafts too.

After the tests, only the Fieldcraft was still shaving sharp. It's an awesome blade. And contrary to Mr. Herter's assertions, I'm guessing that the convex wedge is the strongest of the typical "outdoor knife" blade configurations.


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Hoodoo

This time, like all times, is a very good one, if we but know what to do with it.
--Ralph Waldo Emerson

[This message has been edited by Hoodoo (edited 27 November 1999).]
 
hertersKnives.jpg

The top knife is marked on the handle “HERTER’S INC. IMPROVED BOWIE.” The blade is 5 1/8”.

The bottom knife is my dad’s old Herter’s knife. The blade is 4 7/8” If anyone with an old catalog can tell me the name of this model I will be much obliged. This knife has seen many decades of field use. It would still have its original handle, but for an unfortunate accident. Shortly after my marriage, my new wife put this knife on a burner of the stove, forgot, turned the burner on high, and left the room. Fortunately, I was able to replace the handle (crudely), and so I still have the knife and the wife. That was 17 years ago.

Lest anyone be left with the impression that old George Herter was not politically correct, I’ll quote the introduction to one of his recipes from Bull Cook and Authentic Historical Recipes and Practices.

Spinach Mother of Christ

The Virgin Mary, Mother of Christ was very fond of spinach. This is a well-known fact in Nazareth today as it was 19 centuries ago. Her favorite music was that of the crude bagpipes of that time, and this is also a well-known fact.

Her recipe for preparing spinach spread with Christianity throughout Europe.

--Mary’s recipe follows--

George also had another book called How to Get out of the Rat Race and Live on $10 a Month. It had a recipe for getting sustenance from sawdust. Although in my poorer days I went so far as to experiment with creating recipes from chicken food, I never went so far as to try growing edible yeast in a sawdust matrix per George’s instructions.
 
Howard,

Great pics! But don't keep us hanging: where's the recipe?
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ROFL

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Hoodoo

This time, like all times, is a very good one, if we but know what to do with it.
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
 
Here’s the rest of that section, with Mary’s recipe.

… On the eve of Christ’s birth in the cave that was called a stable, her only meal was spinach.

The early European immigrants from Germany, France, and Italy nearly all brought this recipe with them. This is a recipe for people who like a mild garlic flavor, it definitely is not for people who do not like some garlic.

This recipe cannot be made from canned spinach. Canned spinach in no way resembles fresh or frozen spinach and in my opinion is fit for neither man or beast.

Take six quarts of fresh spinach and carefully remove the heavy stems. If you use frozen spinach take two boxes. Boil the fresh spinach five minutes – no more. If you boil spinach too much it completely loses its original taste. If you use frozen spinach place it in boiling water. With a fork break up the frozen blocks as soon as possible. After the blocks are broken up and the spinach loose boil it for 1 or 2 minutes – no more or it is worthless. Take and put three heaping teaspoons of butter in a frying pan and melt it. Chop up four cloves of garlic and put them into the melted butter. Fry them with medium or low heat until slightly brown. Frying the garlic in butter entirely changes its odor and flavor making it quite mild. Take the drained spinach and mix it in the butter and fried garlic. Salt and pepper to taste. Originally the spinach was pestled to a puree. Today take your food mill and pass the spinach through it making a puree. Serve as a main dish with bread and butter or as a vegetable with a regular meal.

Today in Belgium and Germany a little nutmeg is sprinkled over the top of the puree. This however was not in the original recipe.

George has recipes from almost any historical personage you can think of. I recommend his books.
 
When I was showing my kids some basic safety on using their knives I used some 1/4in and 3/8in hardwood dowel and let them cut for a bit with some supervision. I had put a utility edge on their knives, something a bit forgiving, they whittled a bit and then asked how well my knives cut. Both my Old Timer stockman and one of my Mora knives easily cut the end of the dowel off, which was a good demo as I pointed out that the dowel was similar to one of their fingers. Both knives have relatively thin, sharp blades so they do well at such tasks.

I waver back and forth between thick and thin and am starting to think that thick is nice if I can really use the strength offered by a thicker blade, and that it probably makes sense to carry both. From observing how much abuse my cheap wood chisels take I am starting to expect that a hard use knive should also be able to take such abuse, where I should be able to pound on the back on blade to drive it thru objects, like people use to do when cutting rope with the sunfish patterns, and on the back on the handle like a chisel. For slicing I like using the thinner blades.
 
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