Recommendation? How to determine the proper thickness of handles?

[ErikMB]

I started making some fixed blades (no pivot) and am having difficulties figuring out the handles. The first one feels nice in the hand but the handle is very thick and blocky. It's ugly looking. It feels good to me, though.

The other, a Camillus Hide machete (sorry, I had to make at least one Rambo knife, just for the experience of it!) feels perfect with just one scale on it. I think the scales are 1/4" thick (just guessing, I did not measure it). Of course, it is not symmetrical with just one scale. I think it will be pretty thick with the second scale attached.

So, how do determine how thick the handles should be?

And how do you determine certain details like whether the top of the scale should taper into the blade or stick out perpendicularly like a shelf? I am finding that the thick handled, short bladed knife feels pretty good when I can rest my thumb on the top of that beefy scale but almost all the knives I see have the top of the scale taper in.

Thanks for your thoughts, folks!

 

[Crag the Brewer]

You kinda already answered your own question..... you will know what works for you.

I struggle (in my mind) with handle design too?
The last few years I've primarily been buying knives Just because of their handle shapes.... I see that as an education. One that someone else can't easily define for you. You have to learn it yourself.
I've been making My designs, and I try to get them into as many other people's hands as I can..... Asking them to use them, and get back to me with their results.....

It's a difficult process.
I'm perplexed how some commercially made knives have such Horrible handles?
I understand how we all have such different sized hands, but still.

My advice is...... The Simplier the handle, the better it will be.
and also.... handle size and shape is determind by the knife's actual use.

a chopper has different needs than a pairing knife.


*Please keep up posted with what you come up with.
Handles are my favorite part of a knife.

 

[weo]

So, how do determine how thick the handles should be?

Make, look at, and handle more knives, but now with your attention focused on the questions you have.

And how do you determine certain details

A lot of this comes down to personal aesthetics. But IMO, to paraphrase architect Louis Sullivan: "Form follows function"

 

[Lorien]

the type of knife you're making should determine how fat your handles are

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

Most new maker make their handles way too thick/fat long. Measure a few commercial hunters and kitchen knives to see what is normal. You will find .75"/20mm thick is plenty. Same for the width of the tang/handle. Those 1"/25mm wide handles are for giants. I like to call those big fat handles baseball bat handles.

I know a fellow who makes a good knife but he makes the handles 150% the size they need to be. He has been guided/advised by many other makers to make them smaller, but he just says, "I like them big." He can't figure out why he has trouble selling them. I tell hum, "If you are making it for yourself, make it any way you like. If you are making it to sell, make it the way the public likes."

 

[ErikMB]

Right, Stacy, getting a sense of what the public likes is what I am trying to understand. This is market research that affects design.

I'm a medical device SW engineer and spend a lot of time translating user needs to requirements to design all the way through testing (and showing the FDA that our device is safe). I'm trying to go through that process (at least in my own mind) to come up with heuristics about designing handle shape.

Thanks for the 20mm measurement. That helps me a lot, actually.

 

[Hengelo_77]

Take a large blob of play dough, squize in on it like you hold a knife and it shall leave a shape.
It will be the rough form of a good handle.

I shape the handle and only epoxy it in place after I'm happy with the shape.
Lay it in your house and handle it every now and then for a few days or a week. Mark the handle where you feel hot spots and repeat untill you don't feel hot spots anymore.
Feel with your eyes closed, left hand, right hand and feel again an hour later.

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

Another thing is new makers often do is make the handle too round. The shape is more like a rounded top and bottom rectangle/trapezoid. I usually describe it as an egg shape with the sides flattened. .75"/20mm at the fatter measurement toward the top, and .5"/12mm to .6"/15mm at the bottom. 1"/25mm top to bottom at the tallest point.

 

[ErikMB]

Another thing is new makers often do is make the handle too round. The shape is more like a rounded top and bottom rectangle/trapezoid. I usually describe it as an egg shape with the sides flattened. .75"/20mm at the fatter measurement toward the top, and .5"/12mm to .6"/15mm at the bottom. 1"/25mm top to bottom at the tallest point.

That helps a lot. I have noticed that the handles don't feel as good when I reduce the trapezoid-edge at the bottom but I thought that was just me being strange.

Those measurements help A LOT, Stacy. Thank you, yet again!

 

[PMQ]

One of the most comfortable handle I have ever held, at least for my hand, is the Morakniv Robust, the size, swell, thickness and height is just right, so I just base every handle I make on that. I suggest trying out some handles to find what you like the most.

 

[AVigil]

Take a realistic grip on how you actually will use the knife.
Often you will see people hold the knife with all their fingers wrapped around it in a "fist grip" and says "it feels good".

In use of a knife you never hold it in a fist grip,

Hold the knife as if you are going to slice a steak and you will quickly see how a thick handle is bad for ergonomics.
You should be able to use a knife for an extended period of time and not have your hand suffer for it, no sharp hot spots, no edges to tear up your fingers

 

[Horsewright]

Thinner at the front and thinner at the back. Thinner on the bottom side too. A quote from Kit Carson many years ago helped me: "an oval shaped rectangle or a rectangular oval."

 

[ErikMB]

Here are two works in progress. Both came with rivets that are too short for what I have here.

I think I'll have to spend some time with the belt sander. It's going to make a mess. Sigh....

 

[Crag the Brewer]

Here are two works in progress. Both came with rivets that are too short for what I have here.

I think I'll have to spend some time with the belt sander. It's going to make a mess. Sigh....

a router table with a large radius bit might help smooth over those sharp corners?

 

[ErikMB]

a router table with a large radius bit might help smooth over those sharp corners?

Good idea. I don't have access to that, though (so I wouldn't have thought of it).

I try to draw a line with a Sharpie and blacken out the 2mm or so I want to remove. Then, I put the handle in a vice and use a file, running it the long way, perpendicular to how a file usually works. Then, to the belt sander to round it out.

Sometimes, I just use the belt sander and slide the handle along so the line is as straight as I can manage. I really suck at making anything straight or regular shaped. Even my handwriting is illegible. Some people have it, some don't.

The strange thing is that I can get eyes and 5 different skin tones on a 1" tall toy soldier miniature so it looks pretty real from a foot or two away. For those, though, the shape is already there, so it's a different skill. Sigh....

Perhaps some Craig beer would help.

 

[Crag the Brewer]

Beer ALWAYS helps...haha

Keep up the good work.

 

[Lorien]

Take a realistic grip on how you actually will use the knife.
Often you will see people hold the knife with all their fingers wrapped around it in a "fist grip" and says "it feels good".

In use of a knife you never hold it in a fist grip,

Hold the knife as if you are going to slice a steak and you will quickly see how a thick handle is bad for ergonomics.
You should be able to use a knife for an extended period of time and not have your hand suffer for it, no sharp hot spots, no edges to tear up your fingers

I don't mean to be contrarian, but when I'm pushing my knife through wood and stuff, I'll hold that knife in my fist. My feeling is that bushcraft/woodworking knives HAVE to have a fat handle so the hand doesn't cramp up. Big choppers benefit from oversized handles, and by oversized I mean that your finger tips don't mean your palm when grasping the handle. When I'm using a chopper I hold it like a hammer, meaning a fist grip.

 

[ErikMB]

I don't mean to be contrarian, but when I'm pushing my knife through wood and stuff, I'll hold that knife in my fist. My feeling is that bushcraft/woodworking knives HAVE to have a fat handle so the hand doesn't cramp up. Big choppers benefit from oversized handles, and by oversized I mean that your finger tips don't mean your palm when grasping the handle. When I'm using a chopper I hold it like a hammer, meaning a fist grip.

Dangit, I just reduced the width of two of them....

 

[AVigil]

I don't mean to be contrarian, but when I'm pushing my knife through wood and stuff, I'll hold that knife in my fist. My feeling is that bushcraft/woodworking knives HAVE to have a fat handle so the hand doesn't cramp up. Big choppers benefit from oversized handles, and by oversized I mean that your finger tips don't mean your palm when grasping the handle. When I'm using a chopper I hold it like a hammer, meaning a fist grip.

Yea, I was obviously discussing a knife and not a chopper

 

[Lorien]

Yea, I was obviously discussing a knife and not a chopper

ErikMB started this all off in his op with talk about machete and Rambo knife handles and whatnot, so when you said that people never hold a knife in a fist grip for work I was like . Then I started to think about the last time I did a bunch of carving with a scandi styled knife where I use that same hammer grip for the heavy work and, well...I thought your statement was a little on the broad side. No offence.

we agree that different types of knives need different types of handles, I'm sure of that. I also have a feeling that we'd agree that there are various different criteria which inform your choice of how to approach the handle. Furthermore, I expect we'd also agree that using a knife intended for a specific purpose is the best way to find out what the criteria are for its handle design.

I personally don't think there is any definitive answer to the big question posed here. It's like Potter Stewart said "I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description ["hard-core pornography"], and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it, and the motion picture involved in this case is not that." Using a knife gives you that "I know it when I feel it" feedback that will help answer these types of questions- I know of no better way than that