How to get a Quench line in 5160?

C.Edmondson

C.Edmondson

Joined
Jan 22, 2009
Messages
1,114
I am a new maker and I constantly read about the ways to improve my knives. The first steel I started making knives out of was 5160 and I have done a bunch of tests with different results, but I am in a jam kinda.
Heres what I do,
1. forge the knife out to shape as close as I can get it, and that part I have down pat, I can get a knife to the shape without doing very much sanding at all.
2.After I cut the knife off the bar I normalize 3 times, bring it up to non- magnetic, and let it cool in between.
3. After grinding and leaving the thickness of a nickle on the blade edge, I again normalize 3 times
4. Now I edge quench the blade, Bring it above magnetic and quench in cooking oil, but I cant get temper line to show in the blade after etching?
I have polished to a mirror finish and then etched with ferric chloride, 4 parts water to 1 part Fc, and still nothing, Now this is done before I tempering so I dont understand whats going on? My steel is good steel, I can bring to critical temp and quench in water and break it with my hands so i know its getting hard but cant figure it out?
Thanks for any help and thanks to Mr. Caffrey for putting the great article on his website about 5160, I honestly dont want to waste anyone time with this but I have looked high and low and cant come up with a answer, I really appreciate any help, CHarlie Edmondson
 
If all you want is a quench line the try edge quenching. Or coating the back of the blade with a refractory material like satinite or a clay coating or doing both. The line will show up when part of the blade is cooled off faster than the rest.
 
Charlie, come by this weekend and we'll clay a blade, bring some of that satanite you 've got :p

Clean the blade, then try etching it in warm vinegar for about 10 minutes, if there's a line it'll show then. I've quit using FeCl and all that other mess and get nice results with vinegar. You should be able to see a line at 600x without etching.
 
Thanks Rusty, I do edge quench but still cant get the line, I suppose I could clay the blade and edge quench,I will try it, Thanks again,Charlie
 
Hey Will, gotta run the plant this weekend, Man this Quench line is driving me nuts!!! I have seriously tried everything but coating the blade with satanite and edge quenching, I gotta figure it out some how, thanks Will I will holler at you soon, Charlie
 
Other than Clay or satinite you could do this,
100_1248.jpg


Works as good as clay or satinite and goes on easier, comes off just as easy with a putty knife.
 
there are only two reasons why you are not getting a quench line with your proceedure. 1. the blade is getting fully hard.
2. the blade is not getting hard at all.

my guess is that if you are able to quench 5160 in water without cracking then you are not getting it hot enough to harden in oil. try heating a little more before quenching.
try heating only the edge and then doing an edge quench.

putting clay on the spine of 5160 will most likely not work. 5160 is a through hardening steel and clay cannot slow the cooling effect enough to get a hamon.
 
Thank you very much Mr. Burke, I will do just what you said, Again Thanks very much,Charlie
 
I have been told that just doing an edge quench with 5160 is not really a good idea because it a deap hardening steel and you don't gain anything by doing it.
 
Get a cake pan and fill it with oil. Then place a piece of expanded flat metal in the oil on top of some nuts or something to hold it up off the bottom of the pan so that when you quench the blade only about 1/2" of the edge goes in the oil rock it back and forth then after it is no longer red drop the whole thing in the oil. Jim
 
For a very small outlay of money you can get some W1 drill rod from a local Fastenal. Use the furnace cualk on it and follow your same forge technique's. Quench in water or brine (leave the edge between .050-.060" thick) and preheat your tempering oven to 400ºF so you can go from quench bucket to tempering oven VERY QUICKLY to minimise stress cracks. Follow this and you will have NO problem getting an active hamon. I recommend 5/8's - 3/4" drill rod if you go this route as it will produce a blade between 1.25" - 1.75" wide.

Jason
 
ib2v4u thats exactly what I do, but cant get a line for nothing, I also just did alittle test, I edge quenched a really nice knife a minute ago let it cool down and put it in my vice at work to see if it would break, and yep it did, broke all the way through just like it was hardened all the way thru from the edge to the spine of the knife even tho I edge quenched like I always do.
 
5160 is a deep hardening steel. It will not form a hamon due to the slower hardening rate, It requires simple steels and fast quenches to get a good hamon. The best choices are W1, W2, 1095, 1084. Any alloy steel will not be a good choice.
Stacy
 
C.Edmondson said:
ib2v4u thats exactly what I do, but cant get a line for nothing, I also just did alittle test, I edge quenched a really nice knife a minute ago let it cool down and put it in my vice at work to see if it would break, and yep it did, broke all the way through just like it was hardened all the way thru from the edge to the spine of the knife even tho I edge quenched like I always do.
Click to expand...

So it seems #1 above is correct. you will have to find a way to heat only the edge. I use an oxey acetylene torch, others use different methods but the torch works for me. Anyway heat only the edge and then adge quench. if you want to know how I do it send me an email or pm.
 
Think he ment temper line not Hammon. I do get a good temper line in my 5160 or 9260 using the Mortor and doing a full quench, seems to work well for me thats how I did this one.
100_1190.jpg
 
Rusty McDonald said:
Think he ment temper line not Hammon. I do get a good temper line in my 5160 or 9260 using the Mortor and doing a full quench, seems to work well for me thats how I did this one.
100_1190.jpg
Click to expand...

Yep, absolutely! There are a couple of ways to do it. Terry Primos showed me the way...

You can HT with a torch or edge quench. Take it to 600 or 1000 grit. To let it stand out, use FeCL to etch, 3 parts distilled water, 1 part FeCL. Then use Semi-Chrome or Nevr-Dull. It will show up every time. (I wish my buddy Terry was still making knives. He is one of a kind and a great guy!)

Craig
 
Both are right (IMHO). Yes you can get a quench line, but it's not a true hamon.

That said, I've done it once...and never been able to repeat it.

It requires a very fast quench (water, brine, etc) and thick steel (think axe-thick).

I did manage a line with some activity in it...but like I said...it was luck more than anything...and I wouldn't call it a hamon.

*shrug*

Dan
 
I don't know if this is helping or polite bragging but due to this thread I rubbed some vinegar on a fully heated 5160 blade that was edge quenched in texaco type A (relatively slow) quench oil. There is a definite color difference between the hardened edge and the softer spine section. Definitely not the active hamon you'd get from a shallow hardening steel like 1095 but you can definitley make out what's hard and soft.

Again, I heated the whole blade to just past critical(measured with a magnet) and edge quenched in slow oil that was preheated to 142 degrees.

There is a tendency for the quench line to get wiped out when polishing the blade though.

Is there no difference at all when you etch the blade or is it wiping out with the polishing process?

Based on the proceedures you've posted it almost sounds like the steel is air hardening somehow. Are you sure it's 5160?

Hope this helps somehow.

Rick
 
I have onley goten a quench line once and i was not even trying for it :rolleyes: here is what it looked like.
2nd%20Amendment%20Extreme.jpg


I think the onley way to get it is if it is over heated for to long and you start to get some alloy banding then when you quench it you see a line. if you notice the blade on it you can see a slite alloy banding going on. here in this picture it is stronger but no quench line.

2nd%20Amendment.jpg
 
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