How to get a really nice looking scandi bevel

Bladenoobie1

Bladenoobie1

Joined
Jul 20, 2012
Messages
1,261
Hi,

I sharpened my first scandi grind for the first time today and I'm able to get a very sharp edge. That aside though, I can't get the bevel on the scandi grind to look really nice. Is there any techniques or advice people can give me that would aid in achieving a cleaner looking scandi bevel?

- BN
 
I.N.F.K said:
what are you using to sharpen
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Shapton glass waterstone to 4k, 1 micron boron carbide paste on balsa, and green rouge (roughly .5 micron)

The edges I get are screaming sharp, its just with the very large bevel the scandi has, its hard to get it nice and even looking.
 
Freehand or guided? For large bevels freehand tends to produce nicer looking results.
 
shaptons are not best for cosmetic polishing of very large bevels, too hard. they are very good stones that work fast on most steels with very slow dishing rate but you need a softer and muddier stone to polish evenly a large and slightly convex bevel.

thats part of the reason i sold my set of shapton pros, the edge they produced was top notch but i couldn't stand the look of the bevels on my yanagis, usuba etc ....
 
Sadden said:
Freehand or guided? For large bevels freehand tends to produce nicer looking results.
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Freehand...
pwet said:
shaptons are not best for cosmetic polishing of very large bevels, too hard. they are very good stones that work fast on most steels with very slow dishing rate but you need a softer and muddier stone to polish evenly a large and slightly convex bevel.

thats part of the reason i sold my set of shapton pros, the edge they produced was top notch but i couldn't stand the look of the bevels on my yanagis, usuba etc ....
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Yeah. I'm considering to buy a 4-6k waterstone to use after my 1k that I can finish the bevel on. Can you reccomend some softer muddier stones that would be good for my carbon steel and larger beveled knives?
 
Sadden said:
Some of the nubatama lineup would work really well here.
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I already intend to get a nubatama 150 grit in the future for my heavy reprofiling stone, but I still need something in the range of 4k-6k as a nice finishing stone for softer steels as well as something in the 8k+ range for those hair whittling edges.
 
Why not 150 , 1k , 5k , 10k.

the 150-1k and 1k-5k seem like really big jumps but everyone I have spoken to regarding that combo has been thrilled.
Then you have to choose which 1k to go with. There are 9 stones between 800 and 1200........
 
Sadden said:
Why not 150 , 1k , 5k , 10k.

the 150-1k and 1k-5k seem like really big jumps but everyone I have spoken to regarding that combo has been thrilled.
Then you have to choose which 1k to go with. There are 9 stones between 800 and 1200........
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Unfortunately I don't have the money to spend on a bunch of waterstones at one sitting. I would like to get a set of nubatama, but I won't be acquiring one in the near future.
 
Sadden said:
Why not 150 , 1k , 5k , 10k.

the 150-1k and 1k-5k seem like really big jumps but everyone I have spoken to regarding that combo has been thrilled.
Then you have to choose which 1k to go with. There are 9 stones between 800 and 1200........
Click to expand...

That would not work on a scandi grind. The jump from 1k to 5k would never happen and you would be left with a highly polished 1k scratch pattern that would only get worse at 10k.
 
That's what I would have said , if it was not a combination that many people I know in the sharpening world using this setup on large single bevel Japanese knives with great success. If hes that worried about it he can add a 2k or 3k in there , although in the nubatama lineup they are expensive in relation to the other stones , hence my leaving them out of my initial suggestion.
 
Couple of issues that tend to crop up with Scandis. First is that the deviation of the curve from shoulder to apex needs to be kept to a minimum, or it will take many stone progressions. Second is to use a muddy stone if possible - the extra amount of "padding" from the mud will help a lot with the cosmetics, even at higher grit values. Also, since many Scandis if not all, come with and function best with a slight convex, you will likely need to use some amount of rolling action from shoulder to apex. This should be very slight, no more than a shifting of pressure from the shoulder to the apex as you go, totaling about a degree or two at most per side. Not only will this make it look better cosmetically, but it will increase edge durability compared to a true flat Scandi bevel.

It takes a lot of control and observation to make it "perfect" across a broad bevel on a hard stone. An easy cheat is to use a strop that is just barely conformable, and that will give you your 1-2 degrees of curve and make it very clean visually. This still requires a good touch when doing the initial and finish grinding.

Easy to get a good edge on a Scandi, but very challenging to get a visually clean bevel with no hatching, esp when working off of hard stones.
 
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HeavyHanded said:
Couple of issues that tend to crop up with Scandis. First is that the deviation of the curve from shoulder to apex needs to be kept to a minimum, or it will take many stone progressions. Second is to use a muddy stone if possible - the extra amount of "padding" from the mud will help a lot with the cosmetics, even at higher grit values. Also, since many Scandis if not all, come with and function best with a slight convex, you will likely need to use some amount of rolling action from shoulder to apex. This should be very slight, no more than a shifting of pressure from the shoulder to the apex as you go, totaling about a degree or two at most per side. Not only will this make it look better cosmetically, but it will increase edge durability compared to a true flat Scandi bevel.

It takes a lot of control and observation to make it "perfect" across a broad bevel on a hard stone. An easy cheat is to use a strop that is just barely conformable, and that will give you your 1-2 degrees of curve and make it very clean visually. This still requires a good touch when doing the initial and finish grinding.

Easy to get a good edge on a Scandi, but very challenging to get a visually clean bevel with no hatching, esp when working off of hard stones.
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The bevel on my scandi slightly convexed. I made one side more convexed than the other intentionally to create an asymmetrical grind that would be better for making feather sticks. The bevel has a polished hammered look to it. I do plan on getting a softer muddier stone, the arashiyama 6k, for my carbon steel knives and large bevels.
 
You can get a better appearance with the stones you have now you just have to use shorter strokes and lighter pressure. Also making your sharpening strokes more parallel to the edge will help. You must smooth out the surface before another stone will be of any help.
 
Should I do more of pushing the belly of the blade into the stone or lifting my wrist to hit the belly tip area? I'm still experimenting a bit technique wise, but I'm unsure of what to do
 
Bladenoobie1 said:
The bevel on my scandi slightly convexed. I made one side more convexed than the other intentionally to create an asymmetrical grind that would be better for making feather sticks. The bevel has a polished hammered look to it. I do plan on getting a softer muddier stone, the arashiyama 6k, for my carbon steel knives and large bevels.
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That hammered look is the fingerprint of the different grind planes you're using. I find keeping my grind path on the abrasive as steady as possible will minimize any visible shift from one pass to the next - when I shift the grind path to work around the belly and tip, its important to do so very consistently and gradually (I shoot for a 60 degree or so sweep across the cutting edge and have to shift the grind path to maintain this relationship along the belly/tip).

Light pressure (as mentioned above) helps a lot to hide the transitions, and I swear by some controlled pressure shifting. I don't consciously raise the spine, but I will shift the focus through my fingertips from the shoulder to the apex, "rolling" it as I make each pass. This will eliminate the hatching (hammered) effect if done carefully and will also help to keep that 1 or 2 degree shift across the bevel very consistent. You might not feel the curve, but the variations in grind facets confirm its presence.

Even with my utmost, I find there is still usually some hatching visible, but no more than can be eliminated by stropping (burnishing) on plain paper, and this is the best I personally can achieve. I do not normally spend this much time on the cosmetics of my Scandis, but when I do, that's how it gets done.
 
Bladenoobie1 said:
Should I do more of pushing the belly of the blade into the stone or lifting my wrist to hit the belly tip area? I'm still experimenting a bit technique wise, but I'm unsure of what to do
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Any time you work a belly (curve) you will have to raise your handle, though on a Scandi this is usually very slight. On a thin bladed Scandi such as a Mora, I elevate into the tip just a tiny amount. Make Sharpie marks from shoulder to apex all along the bevel and study where its being ground off. Do not elevate any more than needed or you will get some rather pronounced rounding of the bevel in the belly/tip region.
 
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