How To Get Sharp Knives

M

Mister Coffee

Joined
Dec 6, 2020
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Buy new ones.







Gentlemen, the sharpening game has got me beat. I've spent a week trying to sharpen one knife, and all I have done is make it more dull. I've tried bench stones, the Sharpmaker, strops, ceramic rods. The whole situation is baffling to me. Extremely frustrating. I just can't figure this out.
 
Unless there is something wrong with the heat treat or steel...it's probably down to a combination of technique and possibly either not creating a burr...or failing to properly remove it.

It takes time...but don't give up. It's worth learning.

I'd recommend using the bench stones to thin the bevel and reach the edge, (creating a burr),...and when you think you're just about there...finish on the Sharpmaker, (light alternate strokes), and see if it's sharp then.
 
I had the same struggles for a long time. I never got great edges until I used the Sharpie trick to draw on the bevel to see where I was actually grinding with the stone. Once you determine what angle you need to grind at to reach the tip of the bevel, grind that angle until you form a full length burr. Flip and repeat. Once you remove the burr after forming one on both sides your blade should be shaving sharp.

also if youve been going at it with the same stone for a while, maybe it needs to be cleaned off so it cuts the metal efficiently again
 
While I us my Wicked Edge system, here is a trick works regardless, take a Sharpie black marker, mark the edge of your blade. Now as you work the knife edge over your stone you will see if the angle you holding the knife is removing the marker. The key is keeping the angle your after the same as it produces the edge burr from side to side.

LOL I see Tuna beat me to the tip, goes to show the marking the edge is a good tip.
 
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Take a breather for a few days. Fall back & regroup. Eat well and sleep well. Let it all percolate in your mind while doing so. But don't stress over it. The pieces will begin to fall into place if you allow yourself the time & the rest to let it happen. I'm pretty sure everyone goes through this learning curve in a similarly frustrating fashion. I know I did. It'll start to click, in time.

When I was learning, I spent a fair portion of the 'off-time' just stropping a blade on a paddle strop with green compound, while relaxing in an easy chair in front of the TV and sipping from a glass of wine after a good dinner. Just that simple routine of sort of casually, almost absent-mindedly stropping that blade managed to get my hands conditioned to the feel of the bevels in flush contact. Didn't realize how valuable that would be at the time. But I discovered later that my hands had 'learned' much of the touch for sharpening by doing this, even if my conscious mind still felt like I didn't know how to progress. It just happened, and that surprised me.
 
Obsessed with Edges said:
Take a breather for a few days. Fall back & regroup. Eat well and sleep well. Let it all percolate in your mind while doing so. But don't stress over it. The pieces will begin to fall into place if you allow yourself the time & the rest to let it happen. I'm pretty sure everyone goes through this learning curve in a similarly frustrating fashion. I know I did. It'll start to click, in time.

When I was learning, I spent a fair portion of the 'off-time' just stropping a blade on a paddle strop with green compound, while relaxing in an easy chair in front of the TV and sipping from a glass of wine after a good dinner. Just that simple routine of sort of casually, almost absent-mindedly stropping that blade managed to get my hands conditioned to the feel of the bevels in flush contact. Didn't realize how valuable that would be at the time. But I discovered later that my hands had 'learned' much of the touch for sharpening by doing this, even if my conscious mind still felt like I didn't know how to progress. It just happened, and that surprised me.
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What kind of wine?
 
Learn to feel the burr on one side then move to the other, don't try to muscle what you are sharpening on the stones or sharpmaker

Also look where you are hitting your edge
 
Obsessed with Edges said:
Take a breather for a few days. Fall back & regroup. Eat well and sleep well. Let it all percolate in your mind while doing so. But don't stress over it. The pieces will begin to fall into place if you allow yourself the time & the rest to let it happen. I'm pretty sure everyone goes through this learning curve in a similarly frustrating fashion. I know I did. It'll start to click, in time.

When I was learning, I spent a fair portion of the 'off-time' just stropping a blade on a paddle strop with green compound, while relaxing in an easy chair in front of the TV and sipping from a glass of wine after a good dinner. Just that simple routine of sort of casually, almost absent-mindedly stropping that blade managed to get my hands conditioned to the feel of the bevels in flush contact. Didn't realize how valuable that would be at the time. But I discovered later that my hands had 'learned' much of the touch for sharpening by doing this, even if my conscious mind still felt like I didn't know how to progress. It just happened, and that surprised me.
Click to expand...
Excellent advice.

Whenever I get frustrated with a blade I set it down for later.
From looking at that kitchen knife and the metal removed that kind of tells me you are most likely using too much pressure and not inspecting the edge.

Grinding away is good for practice but you have to know what you are shooting for.
If I am going to sharpen a new knife and want to follow the factory angle I set my angle on stone and do 2 light passes max then check the edge with a loupe to make sure I am grinding at the correct angle.

If I am off I adjust, take a light pass or two and inspect again.
Once I got in this habit it became much easier to replicate any angle that I need to do.

A lot of times certain grit stones make it hard to see if I am on the angle.
In this case I go to a real low grit stone and do some super light passes and this contrast of grit pattern will tell you if your angle is on.

Keep at it and you will get it down.
You should probably buy another cheap knife to practice on too.
 
In addition to all of the other great comments here, one thing that really helped me when I was learning to sharpen freehand was the use of an inexpensive illuminated jewelers loupe. I don't think we are allowed to post Amazon links, but if you DM me I'll send it to you. The one I bought was 30x and 60x magnification with a light built-in. My eyesight even corrected with glasses, is not the best. But with the 60x side of the loupe with the light turned on, I can easily see exactly where I am removing metal and also see burrs as they form.
 
I sharpened this knife a few months ago, and it's working great on this evening's dinner prep.



But the smaller knife just went from bad to worse. And I did everything that has been suggested in this thread. About five times. I just don't know why an edge wouldn't come up on it. Wrong wine, I suppose.
 
Mister Coffee said:
I took so much metal off of the knife that I ruined it.

Before:


After:


Going to need a new bicycle.
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Do a search on Friodur steel here and see what you come up with. It's better to know what steel you're dealing with and the properties so you'll have an idea of where to start.
I have found that if you mark your edge with a sharpie and start off with light pressure strokes, you'll get a better feel for the steel and determine how much you're removing initially. Unless there's a need to reprofile the edge, you shouldn't be putting much pressure on the blade with whichever stone you're using. From the pics, it looks like you were way too heavy handed trying to get an edge on that knife. I would guess that you kept folding the edge and didn't do any type of stropping after a session of sharpening.
Even though it's frustrating, learn to be less aggressive sharpening any knife until you get a feel for the steel you're dealing with. ZDP189 and D2 (the good stuff:cool:) takes me longer to sharpen than any of the other steels I own. I can't tell you how many times I've went through the whole process with those two steels and had to start all over.
I have/use a KME with diamond stones on every knife I own. I've learned that a simple carbon steel takes a whole lot less pressure than M390 to sharpen. As you know now, you can't put back what you take off.
 
Jeeeeeez, dude. No sense in grinding it into a toothpick. Know when to drop the shovel and climb outta the hole.

While I find it somewhat hilarious you’re having so much of a problem with something that’s like falling off a stump to most of us, I do empathize.

If you’ve followed all the tips on here, etc., etc. I think it may be that you’re “doing too much”. Trying too many things. Too many techniques. Overthinking it.

At this point you might benefit from sh!tcanning all the bs and going back to basics. Just get a benchstone and learn to freehand. It sounds harder than it is. Bottom line is if you hold a consistent angle and go until you get a burr on one side, do the same on the other side, then repeat on finer and fibers grits, it can’t help but get sharp.

Or you might benefit from a WSKO. But, if you can turn a full blade into a toothpick without power those things will accomplish that in short order…
 
Ajack60 said:
Do a search on Friodur steel here and see what you come up with. It's better to know what steel you're dealing with and the properties so you'll have an idea of where to start.
I have found that if you mark your edge with a sharpie and start off with light pressure strokes, you'll get a better feel for the steel and determine how much you're removing initially. Unless there's a need to reprofile the edge, you shouldn't be putting much pressure on the blade with whichever stone you're using. From the pics, it looks like you were way too heavy handed trying to get an edge on that knife. I would guess that you kept folding the edge and didn't do any type of stropping after a session of sharpening.
Even though it's frustrating, learn to be less aggressive sharpening any knife until you get a feel for the steel you're dealing with. ZDP189 and D2 (the good stuff:cool:) takes me longer to sharpen than any of the other steels I own. I can't tell you how many times I've went through the whole process with those two steels and had to start all over.
I have/use a KME with diamond stones on every knife I own. I've learned that a simple carbon steel takes a whole lot less pressure than M390 to sharpen. As you know now, you can't put back what you take off.
Click to expand...

Took forever to get a burr on each side. It was after the fourth time of getting a burr on each side but no edge on the knife that I lost my temper and really went at it. This knife had the factory edge when I started. A full flat grind to the apex. I tried everything: micro-bevel, bevel, raising the bevel. I used a Sharpie throughout, and checked the edge with a loupe as I went along. The stone was brand new and cleaned after every sharpening. After the third sharpening, I stropped the edge, and it took a polish, which I didn't even want.
 
Look at it this way, you see the cyclist racing in the Tour de France, they are the best of the best, and getting to that level takes years of training. So obviously you can't expect going from just-learned-how-to-ride-a-bike-for-a-week level to competing with them.

The same for knife sharpening, The knife sharpening videos on Youtube or Instagram or the pics of crazy sharp knives on bladeforum are from guys with years and years of sharpening experience. I'm not trying to discourage you, I'm saying that everything takes time.

I first started learning how to sharpen about 3 years ago, it took me over an hour to sharpen one knife, and it barely got any sharper, in fact, iirc, it was more dull than I started. But know I can get really sharp edge for under 10 minutes, I'm only at the hair shaving level, not hair whittling level, and I'm still practicing everyday to get better.
 
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