How to identify edible plants out in the wild?

[Griffon]

Originally posted by Singularity
Yep, and that is also why a purge is important, because else, most of the matter letf in the intestines will be used, and generaly it is left there because of toxins.

The enzymes aren't "left" there, that's what we use to digest food.

And what's not in the intestines because we use it, will:
a) come out by itself soon enough
b) hardly give you more bad nor good things than normally;
So it's not clear what purpose a purge serves.

No worry about the muscle, they come back as soon as you start eating again. 15 days does not eat them much actually.

At 2000 kcal/day (low estimate), that's 0.5 kg muscle tissue per day. Most of us wouldn't feel well after loosing 7 kg of muscle. And those of us with more would require more energy.

Actually drinking a lot of water is essential, because, while getting carbohydrates from the body fat, you also get the toxins that are stocked within, and these must be eliminated.

Without eating anything, how are you going to get energy out of the body fat?

 

[Singularity]

Griffon,

Enzymes: Contrary to what every body thinks your intestines never get totally clean, like any tubing, they suffer clogging, etc. The matter left there is generally expulsed because it contains the toxic waste from the food you ate. if you stop eating and still have some left, you body will try to extract some more from it. It will absorb toxins.


Muscle consumption:
OK, I am not fat, rather skinny, I have done 12 days fast, with 3 days recovery. I have done this walking between 8 and 10 km every day. I lost minor weight ( 4 kg on 75 and I am 1m80).

Again, in this state, you body will be on low consumption, that means, you'll be unable to do violent efforts, subject to cold, and slower to think. But this is normal self rationing.

Body fat is immediately available to the body, it would seem, how is a mystery to me, but if it works for an hibernating bear, I do not see why my body would not do it. (the point anyway is that in my experience, it does)

I understand the doubts anybody can have against this, because it is a paradigm of modern society. One must be well fed and food is needed to survive is the commonly accepted dogma. This paradigm survives mainly because we have generally NEVER experienced fast. Most animals can go though periods withoud food ranging from a few days to a few weeks. We are designed the same way, it does not pose more problems for an human not to eat for 15 days than for a lion.

I you want to understand more about fast, I suggest you to pick up some book about it. I am sorry but I have no reference to give in english.

Now understand me, I never said you have to stop eating, everything you can eat is in a survival situation all benefit. But if you have nothing, you can survive too. So food is not a priority.

 

[Griffon]

Originally posted by Singularity
Enzymes: Contrary to what every body thinks your intestines never get totally clean, like any tubing, they suffer clogging, etc. The matter left there is generally expulsed because it contains the toxic waste from the food you ate.

Sounds more like religion than physiology to me. As do most books and theories about fasting.

Muscle consumption:
OK, I am not fat, rather skinny, I have done 12 days fast, with 3 days recovery. I have done this walking between 8 and 10 km every day. I lost minor weight ( 4 kg on 75 and I am 1m80).

If we assume you didn't eat anything, but only consumed your muscles, that comes out at 1200 kcal / day, which is low, but maybe not impossibly so. But 4 kg is probably 80% of your muscles, and after loosing that much, you don't walk 8 km / day.
Conclusion: You must have used your body fat. You ate a little, didn't you?

Body fat is immediately available to the body, it would seem, how is a mystery to me, but if it works for an hibernating bear, I do not see why my body would not do it. (the point anyway is that in my experience, it does)

You're not a bear. If you'd used a pig as an example, it would have had more relevance.

 

[Singularity]

Griffon,

OK, it is a mystical experience too in a way.

I have strong doubts about your figure, 4kg=80% of my muscles ????
No I did not supplement. Yes I ended with less fat on the body.

Anyway, I'll agree to disagree, let you think it is silly, and that it will only let you bones, while I'll stay with my experience, is that OK?

 

[ThorTso]

It is highly unlikely that you will need to resort to eating wild plants after only 24 hours. A good old energy bar should do. It is easier (and safer) to eat insects and small animals (or birds) than it is plants, unless you are John Wiseman (or a Botanist). It is far more critical to make sure that you have a reliable water source than food. That is why I carry a PSK 24-7.

Identifying edible plants is tricky at the best of times. It gets so tricky that plants that are edible to animals, are poisonous to humans, and I forget which ones they are. Things that animals can chew/eat, could prove fatal to humans. For example, Lemurs in Madagascar chew millipedes without damaging them, to get them to secrete a vile substance which contains cyanide. This gives them a "trip" much like alcohol intoxication. Apparently if humans had to do this, they would not live to tell the tale.

Otherwise you could always carry a small stock of lettuce leaves in your pocket...LOL.!!!

 

[Old_Soldier]

Several have said 24 hours (or48) is not a problem. Beg to differ. Speaking as a diabetic, and many more are diabetic than have been diagnosed, after 5 or 6 hours without food you become increasingly irratable at the same time you become less and less rational. By the time you have gone 8 hours without food you are no longer able to make decisions. When I reported this to my diabetic counsilor, she said your body begins shutting down non-essential functions and your 'decider' is one of the first to go. By the end of 24 hours many diabetics (most? I don't know.) would be in coma.

The solution is pretty simple--ALWAYS carry some sort of food with you if you are going where you might possibly become temporarily misplaced. A couple of rolls of lifesavers (careful! They make some with no sugar now-a-days.) could literally be a life saver.

The advise given above to become familiar with LOCAL edible plants is probably the best here. Not only do some plants look a lot like others, but a food plant one season can become toxic later. Poke weed for example is quite good in early spring when young and tender. The older it gets the more acid it stores. Its berries are never safe nor are the roots. Also, don't trust the 'authority' who knows all, but never eats the stuff himself.

Anyway, my original point was that some folks can fast for 24 or 48 hours just fine, others cannot. I used to fast for religious reasons, until I started becoming more and more sick each time. Finally, my wife became tired of my grouchy attitude and sent me off to the doctor who had no trouble at all in pin-pointing the problem.

 

[Jimbo]

I'm definitely with Old-Soldier on this one! Lots of people have type 2 diabetes and don't know about it.
The thing with plants is that once you start getting to know some, you start noticing more details of what is around you and learning more every day. I used to hate botany and spent many years avoiding learning about identifying plants. I used all the same excuses of there being too many to be sure of, too much work - you name it. Now I love to go out and take pics of plants and watch them grow. I'm no expert but I know more than enough to get by and I have fun learning more.

 

[Singularity]

Old_Soldier,

I agree with you, lots of things differ from individual to individual.

I am used to eat once only every day, generally at night, and only absorb water the rest of the day, whatever I do (mountain biking even). I never get into hypoglycemia, because my body is trained this way, and eating a breakfast makes me sick. Now of course conditions changes, and when I do intense sports all day, I fell the need to eat in the mornings... This horrifies most people!

Your point is spot on, know your limits is the rule. And these limits you only know by trying.

 

[coyotlviejo]

Originally posted by Jimbo
The thing with plants is that once you start getting to know some, you start noticing more details of what is around you...

Absolutely! Since I started learning about plants I have also noticed an increased awareness of nature in general. After studying plants on my own time for 10 years I took one year of botany at the community college, and my appreciation for the great outdoors has at least doubled, probably tripled. And that's quite a bit for someone who grew up as a nature freak.

If you have the chance now to learn plants, do it. All this advise about power bars, 24 hours, bugs, etc. is good. But if you have the time to learn the plants, then why not just do it? Yes, I take extra candy bars with me when I'm backpacking. But they don't give me the security that I feel when I walk along the trail noting, "Yarrow - good to have if I get cut. And there's some miner's lettuce. Maybe I'll have a salad to compliment my freeze-dried eggs tonight. Blueberries will make a nice breakfast, but they also mean that bears might be near." etc. etc.

Isn't our ultimate pursuit in wilderness and survival skills about education? Take the power bar for the times you can't find plants. But learn about plants for the times when you forget or lose your powerbar.

 

[bandaidman]

Originally posted by Jimbo
One of the most delicious SMELLING plants after you cut into the roots is water hemlock. Seriously. And it's far more deadly then poison hemlock.
Edible plant knowledge involves lots of work, courses, books, observation - and luck.

successfully eating wild plants probably has more to do with luck than skill....

in one study 95% of people (these were "experienced" mushroom foragers) were unsuccessful in avoiding the poisonous mushrooms 100% of the time.

if you pick a gyromitrin containing one you might get sick enough to think you are dying...

if you get into amanita phalloides there is a good chance you will..

unfortunately amanita looks just like a safe mushroom from SE asia ... and immigrants from that area are one of the most common groups to be poisoned by amanita in north america

fortunately most plant exposures (from a toxicologic standpoint) only involve GI upset ... some are bad enough to require IVF and hospitalization though

making the wrong choice definately will ruin your backwoods trip though... :barf:

i bring my own food or eat fish!!!

 

[coyotlviejo]

But you have the capacity to greatly increase your skill and to tip the scales in your favor. Luck doesn't have to be a major factor, and shouldn't be.

I know quite a bit about edible and medicinal plants from my home region (Pacific Northwest & Great Basin), yet I still avoid many plants because I don't know enough about them. Recognizing your lack of knowledge in certain areas is part of the "skill" involved.

The fact that 95% of people were not able to accurately identify certain mushrooms 100% of the time is not alarming. If you prefer to eat bugs, do you eat fuzzy caterpillars or 'naked' ones? Should you include ladybugs in your menu? Would we all have 100% success on the bug test? What if you kill an animal with parasites living in it, but you don't have a fire, or you simply fail to cook it enough? Would we all score perfectly on that one?

The very nature of survival is such that you will always have inherent risks and no true guarantees. So we learn as much as we can to hedge our bets and to remove as much margin for error as possible.

The benefits of knowing plants are innumerable and definitely are great enough to warrant spending some time in the plant guides.