How to make best use of my pseudo anvil

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Yugami

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Oct 13, 2015
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So the piece of granite I was using broke down the middle (I may need to work on my hammer technique).

I have a piece of 4140 that is 3x4x12 - so a bit light at 40lbs but not bad.

It already has a fair bit of rebound to it unsecured on a bench.

I was thinking I could made a few mods to it to make it slightly more anvil like, but I'm not sure what would be the most useful. I have access to some pretty good machine tools including a medium sized horizontal mill (Hardinge TM) I was thinking (dreaming perhaps depending on the amount of work) that I could mill a 1" hole and then hot form or file a hardy hole.

Then on top of the the best way to secure it (cheaper is better, more time and materials than cash)
 
I'm by no means an expert here, but that won't stop me from chiming in :)

I would personally expect the granite to fail after a certain point no matter what your technique.

As to mods - it might be worth trying to harden and temper the top surface. This requires a lot of oil, and a lot of safety precautions.
I'm assuming that the steel is annealed. If it's already hardened, then I weep for your milling machine trying to put a hardy hole in it.

As to securing it in place, a somewhat expensive permanent option is to make a urethane base for it, as per:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oQ2OV4S02s
 
Peters will HT that anvil piece for $40. I discussed this with Brad just last week for an article I am writing.
Use heavy objects, like a stack of smooth granite, a pile of gym weights, a stack of 1" plates of mild steel, or a bucket of concrete, etc. - to add mass below the small anvil. Even a big stump will add a lot of mass.
 
FunkCoaster said:
As to securing it in place, a somewhat expensive permanent option is to make a urethane base for it, as per:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oQ2OV4S02s
Click to expand...

Hrmmmm, I have a small jug of 70 Shore A casting rubber I don't need


So heres my thoughts, drill and tap 2 holes in the bottom (these will be used to seat some pins or something to epoxy to the 1/2 of the granite piece) Send it out for hardening (48-50? on the face) Secure the steel to the granite withe some urethane in between. Then seat all that on a bunch of 4x4 pieces bunched together so everything comes to knuckle height.

Hardy hole worth the bother?, yah or nay?
 
Granite doesn't need to be incorporated in anything that involves shock. It doesn't give, consequently, it breaks.
 
Regardless of your anvil size, the more solidly you can secure it to the base and ground, the more your energy will go into moving the hot steel instead of bouncing your anvil around.

My 150 pound Peter Wright has about a 4" wide face. So 3" x 4" isn't bad.

I've seen a lot of pictures of Third World smithies where a variety of small anvils and horns/bicks are used as needed. So you might make this your main anvil and acquire other pieces as needed for other anvil-ly duties.

If you have a post vise or heavy chipping vise, it can serve for hardy tool holding.
 
Id suggest hetat reating it and setting it upright in a good heavy stump or wood base..maybe a concrete base..Look at the work done during the Merovingian period, i.e migration era swords..Most of them were made on stake anvils..
 
An excellent anvil base can be made from 2" lumber and that block. HT the block first.

Start with measuring the distance from the ground to where your wrist is. - usually about 30".
The anvil should be on the 3X12 face, that means the base is about 26" high where the anvil seats.

Start with two 2X12X26" boards. Screw and glue the other two together, using 3.5"X#10 deck screws. This is the center of the base. The anvil will seat on it.

Cut two 2X16" by 23.5" boards. Put them so the bottoms are flush and the center 2X12's are centered with about 1.75" on each side. Try and get the bottoms as flush and perfectly aligned as possible. This is easiest done with them standing up so the bottoms sit on the floor. Screw and glue them one at a time on each side of the center boards so the stack is now four boards thick.

Cut two 2X4X36" boards. Screw and glue across the tops of the last two boards so they stick out equally as handles ( about 10" sticking out each side). They should be about 1/2" proud on the top to make a seat for the anvil block.

Cut two more 2X16X26". Bevel one end of each at 45°. Screw and glue one on each side as before, bevels up.

Cut two 2X16X24", beveled, and attached as before. You now have a nice solid eight board stand (roughly square) that fits the anvil in the top, with two long handles.

Set the anvil block in place and see how it sits. Cut two 2X4X27.5" boards and bevel one end of each. Screw one to the center of one side (between the handles) so it creates a "U" seat at the top. Shim out the other board as needed (probably about 1/4-1/2") so it seats snug to the anvil block, and screw/glue it in place. Sand down the tops of these two pieces to make flush with the handles.

This base will hold the anvil block securely, but a thin bed of construction adhesive (liquid nails) and setting the anvil firmly in place will make it quieter and solid. Whack the anvil with a 4X4 a bunch to seat it solidly in the adhesive.

The extensions make moving the anvil easy, and are a place to set/hang hammers and tongs when forging.

Similar construction will work to make a solid base for any size anvil. My portable base for a 75# Vulcan is made like this.
 
Firstly, get rid of that notion you have that you don't have an anvil. Your brain is stuck on the "london pattern anvil" that you see a lot of people using, and Wile E. Coyote made famous.

You don't need that. Vikings were making incredible works of art on anvils even small than your chunk of 4140. Modern smiths in third-world countries routinely make Kukris and other blades using nothing more than a sledge hammer for an anvil.

You don't need a long, wide face for 99% of the forging you're going to be doing. Anvils rely on maximizing the mass that is directly under the impact point of the hammer. With your block stood on end, you have a 3x4 face with all of the mass available directly under where you'll be hitting. And it's more than enough surface area to straighten long blades.

Hardy holes are almost completely unnecessary. Great if you have one and want to make up a bunch of tools to fit it (if you actually need them), but you use a heavy-duty vise as a hardy holder and a whole lot more.
 
Thanks guys, I actually forged a blade on it the other day (I think immediately after posting this actually) And it was a bit of a pain because it bounced around, it actually worked pretty well and I was able to do it fairly quickly compared to the granite I was using (which also jumped around and most of the mass was about worthless since it was a giant surface plate laying flat on a table).

So I figure with a proper mounting of it (so its not jumping around losing energy and pissing me off) and a bit of HT it will be good to go as a my anvil. Just wasn't sure about the usefulness of other features. I never though of the vise as a hardy tool holder. I have a Wilton Bullet I can mount by the forge.

What about other features I've seen on some of the London and European patterns like upsetting areas etc? I figure I might as well do whatever I can to this thing before sending it out.
 
I wouldn't even bother with heat-treating. That alloy is plenty tough as-is and will see you through a whole bunch of forging before you have to worry about any resurfacing or such. It won't hurt to send it out for HT, but it certainly isn't necessary.

Stood up on end, you have 12 square inches of face area to hammer on, and the average hammer face is only about 3 square inches. With all the mass directly below the hammer, you'll see some very good performance in terms of how the hot steel moves.

It would be real easy to fab up a stand made from cement if you can make a form out of plywood and such. Set the anvil down in the cement about an inch and bed it in some silicone to keep it from hopping around.

Here's a photo of Rick Marchand's post anvil bedded in a cement-filled pipe. Considering his skill at forging, it's hard to argue with this set up.

IMG_0056-3.jpg
 
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