How to Market Your Product. (low price sale forum Spin/off)

[Dave Behrens]

In the Low Price Knives Thread, one theme that was brought up consistently was marketing. Marketing can be(and most often is) what ultimately makes any product a failure or success. Extremely few products, business or brands throughout history have risen to acclaim, nor survived without a good marketing plan, and by standing on pure quality alone.


In regards to Custom Knife-makers, full-time, part-time, or serious hobbyist what are the best ways to market our product/s. This question can be extremely difficult to answer.

- First off, we are trying to sell a product that modern society feels it does not need, and often at a price that is "unreasonable" to most average joes(strike #1).

- Secondly, the skills, time, and cost to produce a marketable product are very difficult, demanding and costly(strike #2).

- Thirdly, the Custom Knife-making world is small(in relative to other Market Trades) and very "tight knit" if you will, mostly limited to Collectors and other Knife-makers(small market - strike #3).

So considering all of those things(there are more, but then it wouldn't be baseball) , what are the options for marketing our products, and what marketing techniques have worked for you (whoever "you" are? The obvious would be...

- Internet Forums such as this one: accessible to anyone - large audience(probably largest) - few restrictions - economical (membership fees are cheap)

- Trade Shows: The "Old Fashioned" way: Some times the old ways are best - Face to face interaction - show fees, displays, and table spots can run into the $1000's - only held a few times a year - require travel and an inventory - more rules and restrictions - much more exclusive than internet or print(magazines).

Published i.e.; Blade Magazine - Highly exclusive - often takes years to reach this level - "best way" to become better known within the Blade Community perhaps.


Any thoughts and/or discussion is welcome. Thanks.

- Dave Behrens

 

[AddictedToGear]

This is a good point. I would not mind a few examples of what you are talking about though. Like marketing in the for sale forum or on separate threads, maybe a website, or even a passaround? I know what marketing is and agree with you but would not mind if you elaborated a little bit.

 

[Dave Behrens]

This is a good point. I would not mind a few examples of what you are talking about though. Like marketing in the for sale forum or on separate threads, maybe a website, or even a passaround? I know what marketing is and agree with you but would not mind if you elaborated a little bit.

I am not exactly sure how to answer your question. Are you asking me what I believe is the best way to market on the internet?

 

[bronyblacksmith]

the thing about shows like blade is that you might not sell much at the show but if you hand out business cards you might have an increase in sales for a few months after.

 

[Frank Niro]

Chuck Bybee presented some excellent comments ,in my opinion, on what a lot of selling knives is all about. Presentation is on huge factor. Meaning you must get them out there to be seen. One of the items he mentioned that I personally know is true is are you going to make knives for sale or just make the ones you like as you go along? I have done the last and it is very important to note you can very much limit your incoming business. That's fine for me, - well almost, but at times I wouldn't mind another order or two but still in the styling I want to use. This will not provide you with a living or even a part time job even if your work is good. So, what is hot today? Tacticals of all sorts? If you say you hate those crazy things, that's okay, but you still better make a bunch if you really want to make knives. Frank

 

[Dave Behrens]

From a pure design and production standpoint, it is best to make knives that are as mass appeal a possible. That can be challenging as opinions and tastes change. If I could have produced a bunch of poorly made, cheap tactical prybars and machetes with ZOMBIE KILLER on them, 5 years ago I'd be a rich man today.

Getting your product out there is only part of the challenge. While I have not attended tradeshows, I put my work out here on the forums and other sites A LOT, but if a knife doesn't sell then it doesn't sell and you must decide to either drop the price, or put it on the wall to glare at while you are drinkin'.

 

[HallHandmade]

I wish I'd had time to reply further to the other two threads (especially since I was mentioned in each), but have been on mobile only since I literally have only been leaving the shop to sleep, eat, shower, in that order.

I too have noticed that not only do tacticals seem to command higher prices in general, they also seem to sell better. People are just wacko for tacticals nowadays. Kinda bugs me once in a while, but it is what it is. I do like them, but I wish more people had appreciation for the stunning beauty of natural materials when combined with more organic designs.

I realize that my tendency towards slightly more traditional work is hurting me, but I have to do what I enjoy and am good at. If I were to work on knives I'm not passionate about, the buyers would smell it from a mile away.

My main problem right now is that I am so focused on keeping up with orders and bench projects, that expanding to more sales outlets seems like a strange fantasy to me. I have a lot of local/regional word of mouth sales, combined with what I get here.

Also, ever having enough knives to fill a table at a show seems a very, very long way off.

 

[Dave Behrens]

I wish I'd had time to reply further to the other two threads (especially since I was mentioned in each), but have been on mobile only since I literally have only been leaving the shop to sleep, eat, shower, in that order.

I too have noticed that not only do tacticals seem to command higher prices in general, they also seem to sell better. People are just wacko for tacticals nowadays. Kinda bugs me once in a while, but it is what it is. I do like them, but I wish more people had appreciation for the stunning beauty of natural materials when combined with more organic designs.

I realize that my tendency towards slightly more traditional work is hurting me, but I have to do what I enjoy and am good at. If I were to work on knives I'm not passionate about, the buyers would smell it from a mile away.

My main problem right now is that I am so focused on keeping up with orders and bench projects, that expanding to more sales outlets seems like a strange fantasy to me. I have a lot of local/regional word of mouth sales, combined with what I get here.

Also, ever having enough knives to fill a table at a show seems a very, very long way off.

Preach it!!!

 

[JGarrison Knives]

I have been following the other thread with interest because I am a hobbyist/amateur knife maker and I agree that marketing is a big factor in sales. With that said I do a terrible job at marketing myself. As Dave mentioned I think being active on knife forums is a big part of that. I see some knife makers in their own forum that are very active and some that are just dead. I think the active knife makers create relationships with the customers who buy their knives and I bet if the buyer is happy with his purchase he will buy from that maker again. Although sometimes the maker has so many posts on these forums I wonder when they actually have time to make knives. With the advent of smartphones, posting and communication is a lot easier then it has been in the past.

 

[Mark Knapp]

There are lots of other ways to sell knives and other places. When I started out I did it all, I got tables at gun shows, holiday bazaars, hung up flyers on bulletin boards at sporting goods stores, got some knives in sporting goods stores, put ad's in the classified section of news papers and set up a booth at our county fair. Ya gotta do the whole thing so you don't have a limited market.

 

[Andy Johnston]

Something I feel like a lot of people miss out on is social media sites. Not to advertise on them, but to get onto the first page of Google when someone searches for a custom or hand made knife. The social media sites pay big money to be on the front page, and if you are not on a social media site showing off some of your work you are missing out on a easy way to exposure. Just my .02 cents and may not be very good as I have not sold any knives yet and probably wont for a while yet.

 

[Don Nguyen]

This is a TedTalk I watched a long time ago and it has kept my bell ringing ever since.

http://www.ted.com/talks/simon_sinek_how_great_leaders_inspire_action

 

[Omega Leather Works]

Simple, make folders using bearings, titanium, a flipper and the latest pm steel.

Okay, maybe that's oversimplifying but it may pay to follow what the hottest things going are (besides just "tactical"). Of course, I also realize that these are not easy things to do.

I read, with interest, a thread a little while back in the "general" forum about why people don't care for custom knives. I got the feeling that the popularity of folders over fixed blades was a concern. Of course price is always a hot topic but neither I, nor most fanatics, really care much, and in some cases, a knife can be seen as appealing BECAUSE of its high price. I doubt Daniel Fairly will struggle much selling every folder he makes. Insert his name with anyone else that makes a high quality folder and I believe the same will often be true.

I, personally, stopped buying folders with the latest steel for various reasons. Honestly, the biggest was because I had a hard time finding modern folders that featured carbon steel blades. I ended up buying slipjoints and the like, and while I love them, it still pushed me to look elsewhere for modern knives with carbon blades. That led me to fixed blades for the most part.

I guess all I'm saying really is that it might help to try to get into the mind of the younger buyers that are relatively new to knife buying. The old timers like me already know that carbon steel blades are better.

There is a mindset that boarders on obsession with knives that push guys to buy (and mostly flaunt on forums) the newest and fanciest folders. And by fancy I don't mean what a lot of us consider the best materials or methods of making, but more, the highest tech, most innovative and polished parts possible. Things that rank high are lock innovation(!), steel, pivot innovation (ceramic bearings are a good start) and f&f. Packaging is important! It goes well with "unboxing" videos, trust me. Anything included is also a bonus, high marks for tools for disassembly.

Lastly, Andy Roy is spot on when he says make it sexy, and also when he says to name everything. Any (any) feature that isn't totally obvious should be named something that guys can flaunt to their friends. Getting a hosted forum to build a following can't hurt either.

Also, people like Strider probably couldn't sell their relatively mundane fixed blades for such high prices without having high end folders. I can also almost guarantee that those fixed blade sales are nearly always sold to guys that already have a number of his folders. Big profits on those I'd bet.

Good luck guys.

 

[lastbrunneng]

I too have noticed that not only do tacticals seem to command higher prices in general, they also seem to sell better. People are just wacko for tacticals nowadays. Kinda bugs me once in a while, but it is what it is. I do like them, but I wish more people had appreciation for the stunning beauty of natural materials when combined with more organic designs.

The tactical fad has been nagging me for a while as well, mostly because the majority of tacti-cool items are nothing more than especially angular, with no thought given to what 'tactics' will be utilized in their operation. It reminds me of the 'tribal' tattoo craze.
But I suppose plenty of artists made money off of tribal tattoos and that's what this thread is about anyway.

 

[Frank Niro]

Dave, I want to point out that you say you want business and know tacticals are big but still don't want to go there. Follow the trend if you want business. I'm sure there are plenty of simply shaped straight knives that can be made in tactical style as well as folders. Maybe reconsider your direction? Frank

 

[Alpha Knife Supply]

Also, people like Strider probably couldn't sell their relatively mundane fixed blades for such high prices without having high end folders. I can also almost guarantee that those fixed blade sales are nearly always sold to guys that already have a number of his folders. Big profits on those I'd bet.

Strider sold fixed blades for years before they ever made a folder. Their fixed blades sold very quickly.

Mick, Duane and Josh are marketing geniuses.

Chuck

 

[VaughnT]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, you need to create an entire universe around your product. I see far too many knifemakers that have absolutely horrible websites. No imagination. No flair. No "grab the reader" graphics or backstory. Nothing.

One of the best examples of a knife-smith universe was created by the folks at Mad Dwarf Workshop. Not only did they produce great blades, but they made sure that just about every photo that went up on the internet was interesting and well-composed. David DelaGardelle still maintains that feel at his new shop, Cedarlore Forge.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/cedarloreforge/

Check out his "flickr" presence and take note of how all of the photos carry a similar tone to them. Anyone can list a handful of knives for sale. Change that up with some interesting graphics, photos of your dream designs, tell me about what inspires you. Maybe a sketch or three of designs that you've dreamed of, but haven't done..... because that just might be the design that I like the most and want to commission.

You need to be on flickr, facebook and any other social media site you can find, but do it well.

 

[Dane_A]

I may not know knives but building a business is something I do know a thing or two about.
1) Most businesses fail because the owner doesn't know how to operate a business. You may be the best knife maker on the planet, but if you don't know how to operate a business and don't admit that you can't you will fail. Hire someone that can do it for you.
2) Either make the trend or follow the trend. It is easier to follow than it is to make a trend. Trend makers fail more than succeed but one super star product can set you up for a while. Apple is a great example of a trend setter while Vizio (TVs) is an example of a successful trend follower. Many companies get into a rut of "we've always done it this way" and fail because of it.

3) Smart marketing - If you don't have an internet presence you are invisible. Nowadays a successful business will have a web site, Facebook account, and probably a twitter account. Again, if this is not your forte - Hire it out. You can go to every show in the country and if you don't have an internet presence no one will know who you are. This is the modern day equivalent to being in the yellow pages.

4) Stand behind your product. It really doesn't matter if it is the customers fault, make it right. You can NOT buy the quality of advertising that word of mouth brings. Yes the customer shouldn't have used your knife to open a can after chopping down a tree and then prying open a door but make it right anyway. It'll cost you a few dollars but in the long run it will make you many more.

5) Do not give anything away because then it is worthless. Few people see a value in a free product.

 

[Alpha Knife Supply]

First off, we are trying to sell a product that modern society feels it does not need, and often at a price that is "unreasonable" to most average joes(strike #1).

I could not disagree with you more.

Your attitude has a HUGE bearing on how you present your knives. If you truly feel what you wrote in the quote, you need to change your thinking or your sales will continue to suffer.

If what you wrote is true, why are so many knifemakers closing their order books? Why do so many knifemakers have multi-year waiting lists?

The fact is segments of the public wait in line to spend more than $400 for a cell phone that will be obsolete in less than two years. Diesel pickup trucks cost more than $60,000 and dealers can't take delivery fast enough. If you explain why your knives are a good value, people will line up to buy them. The money is out there. All you have to do is open you arms and scoop it in.

Chuck

 

[Omega Leather Works]

Strider sold fixed blades for years before they ever made a folder. Their fixed blades sold very quickly.

Mick, Duane and Josh are marketing geniuses.

Chuck

I stand corrected. I agree with their marketing prowess, no doubt. Strider was a bad choice, but hopefully you get what I'm saying. I believe that most guys that buy fixed blades from prolific folder makers probably own more of their folders. The point was that their high end folder sales (and associated high prices) help pave the way for high dollar fb sales. I doubt that you'd see the quantity of sales on the Chris Reeve Green Beret if there wasn't Sebenza.

Anyway, my opinion isn't so much that you need to make folders, but that it's a good idea to know what is popular and also the demographic for that popularity.