Hello all, I've been into knives since probably at the age of five. I started drawing and ordering knives from a good friend who's a knife maker, (Stapel kives). I think it's time I learn to make my own knives! If I were to use a Rasp for my choice of metal. http://www.horseshoesandtools.com/bellotafinishrasp14.aspx , find a good source of business to cut out my designs. Buy a grinder/ sander from harborfreight, will I have the tools needed to start making knives? Let me know, thanks.
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How to start making my own knives? Suggestions suggestions.
- Thread starter Glock26
- Start date
First buy some barstock the rasp just complicates things, start with 1084, d2 or something depending on your heat treat approach.
Then hacksaw, files and sandpaper, a vice and a drill will help as well. This is pretty basic gear and it will take a while to get something finished but it's how I and many others here built their first knife.
Do lots of research here as well there is not much about knives you can't learn from the great people here.
Then hacksaw, files and sandpaper, a vice and a drill will help as well. This is pretty basic gear and it will take a while to get something finished but it's how I and many others here built their first knife.
Do lots of research here as well there is not much about knives you can't learn from the great people here.
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Elasmonut is right. And also, the brand you get really matters. My previous "metal cutting" hacksaw blade lost its teeth after a few swipes. I'd suggest Lansky for the hacksaw blade, Nicholson for the files. As for steel, if you're planning on heat treating by yourself with a fire, 1084 would probably be the best choice. It's what I started with as well.
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You definitely want to take this to Shop Talk...
But coming from someone who's started fairly recently, I'll give you some advice rthat I learned the hard way.
First, do NOT skimp on the grinder. Buy yourself a decent one. The absolute minimum I'd suggest is the Craftsman 2x42. Another good starter one that you can look into is the Coote, although you'll need to rig a motor for it. Better yet, get a Pheer or one of the grinder kits and make your own. The harbor freight ones absolutely will not do. I've got 2 different ones. One I don't even use for anything because the tracking sucks. Neither has the power to be worth a buy for steel working. I probably spent nearly 800 dollars on grinders of various sorts. Started with a bench grinder (dumb idea, btw), and then a HF 1x30, which sucked so much, I immediately tried the HF 4x36. That also was nearly useless. Then I got a good quality 1x30, which I used for quite a while, before I got a deal on a Craftsman 2x42. I've been using that, and it's pretty okay, as long as you quench the blade frequently. I finally just placed an order for a Pheer, which I shoulda done from the get-go. Cut to the chase and buy a good grinder if you're really serious about getting into the hobby. You will regret it later if you do it any other way, in my opinion.
Second, buy safety equipment. A good respirator is a must. It may seem expensive, but hospital bills when you're coughing your lungs out and have tumors in your lungs are WAY more expensive. I like to wear gloves, but not everyone does. A good pair of mechanix wear gloves did save my finger from my own stupidity once though. Power tools can be scary. Ear protection is nice, as are shop goggles (buy a good pair; otherwise they'll fog up something fierce while you work. You DON'T want sparks in your eyes). A good inflammable (did you know that flammable and inflammable are synonyms?) shop apron is a good investment, and will save your clothes. I burned holes in my favorite pair of pants...
Buy lots of good belts. Ceramic belts in low grits for cutting, then a bunch of others for polishing. Also pick up some nice files (a mill bastard and a finer grit one) for refining your plunges and other sorts of things.
You'll also need a variable speed drill press and some nice bits for drilling your pin holes. Pin stock, material for scales, etc, also. Epoxy too (in large quantities). A 5 gallon bucket for quenching. You may eventually want something to collect the massive amount of metal dust you're going to produce. Stuff gets EVERYWHERE.
You can cut out many designs with an angle grinder and thin metal cutting discs, or just a good high tension hacksaw with a metal cutting blade. Both are fairly inexpensive as those things go. If you go the angle grinder route, buy your cutting discs in bulk at Harbor Freight. I run through them pretty quickly.
You can get your steel from Aldo (njsteelbaron). Carbon steels are nice and cheap, but you'll pay a bit for shipping, so I tend to order several feet at a time to save on shipping.
I farm out the heat treat to Darrin Sanders, if you want a professional job done, and are worried about doing it yourself. He can do most steels, and does a great job. I mainly use 1095 and 5160, and his heat treat for both of those steels is great. He has a really good service, and like many makers on here, is also really helpful for those of us who are just starting out. Also very affordable.
Getting started isn't really cheap. If you want to really do it right and plan on sticking with it, I'd say you should be prepared to spend a few thousand dollars easily on the right tooling to start out. But, it's an immensely rewarding hobby, and well worth the investment, in my estimation.
But coming from someone who's started fairly recently, I'll give you some advice rthat I learned the hard way.
First, do NOT skimp on the grinder. Buy yourself a decent one. The absolute minimum I'd suggest is the Craftsman 2x42. Another good starter one that you can look into is the Coote, although you'll need to rig a motor for it. Better yet, get a Pheer or one of the grinder kits and make your own. The harbor freight ones absolutely will not do. I've got 2 different ones. One I don't even use for anything because the tracking sucks. Neither has the power to be worth a buy for steel working. I probably spent nearly 800 dollars on grinders of various sorts. Started with a bench grinder (dumb idea, btw), and then a HF 1x30, which sucked so much, I immediately tried the HF 4x36. That also was nearly useless. Then I got a good quality 1x30, which I used for quite a while, before I got a deal on a Craftsman 2x42. I've been using that, and it's pretty okay, as long as you quench the blade frequently. I finally just placed an order for a Pheer, which I shoulda done from the get-go. Cut to the chase and buy a good grinder if you're really serious about getting into the hobby. You will regret it later if you do it any other way, in my opinion.
Second, buy safety equipment. A good respirator is a must. It may seem expensive, but hospital bills when you're coughing your lungs out and have tumors in your lungs are WAY more expensive. I like to wear gloves, but not everyone does. A good pair of mechanix wear gloves did save my finger from my own stupidity once though. Power tools can be scary. Ear protection is nice, as are shop goggles (buy a good pair; otherwise they'll fog up something fierce while you work. You DON'T want sparks in your eyes). A good inflammable (did you know that flammable and inflammable are synonyms?) shop apron is a good investment, and will save your clothes. I burned holes in my favorite pair of pants...
Buy lots of good belts. Ceramic belts in low grits for cutting, then a bunch of others for polishing. Also pick up some nice files (a mill bastard and a finer grit one) for refining your plunges and other sorts of things.
You'll also need a variable speed drill press and some nice bits for drilling your pin holes. Pin stock, material for scales, etc, also. Epoxy too (in large quantities). A 5 gallon bucket for quenching. You may eventually want something to collect the massive amount of metal dust you're going to produce. Stuff gets EVERYWHERE.
You can cut out many designs with an angle grinder and thin metal cutting discs, or just a good high tension hacksaw with a metal cutting blade. Both are fairly inexpensive as those things go. If you go the angle grinder route, buy your cutting discs in bulk at Harbor Freight. I run through them pretty quickly.
You can get your steel from Aldo (njsteelbaron). Carbon steels are nice and cheap, but you'll pay a bit for shipping, so I tend to order several feet at a time to save on shipping.
I farm out the heat treat to Darrin Sanders, if you want a professional job done, and are worried about doing it yourself. He can do most steels, and does a great job. I mainly use 1095 and 5160, and his heat treat for both of those steels is great. He has a really good service, and like many makers on here, is also really helpful for those of us who are just starting out. Also very affordable.
Getting started isn't really cheap. If you want to really do it right and plan on sticking with it, I'd say you should be prepared to spend a few thousand dollars easily on the right tooling to start out. But, it's an immensely rewarding hobby, and well worth the investment, in my estimation.
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Get yourself a 1x30 or 1x42 belt grinder, a drill press, and well equipped Dremel kit.
Poop Fungus
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file, anvil, railroad spike, hammer, fire
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+1 for this... don't take this the wrong way (and no offense to you Crimsonfalcon, a lot of good info by the way) but keep it simple at first. you dont need to spend thousands of dollars to make a quality knife. assuming you arent doing the heat treat yourself at first, all you really "need" are some form of drill, files and sandpaper, and everything else is simply "nice to have" and will make your life easier. I wouldnt go out and buy my own nascar, just because i thought it would be nice to learn how to race... ease into it and learn what you like and dont like and you will know what equipment you are going to want to get.
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My recommendation to buy the good grinder first was for folks who already think they're likely to be serious about staying with it.
That being said, the Craftsman can be had for around 200, while the Coote can be had for around 500 with a good motor. They're both good starter grinders, and WAY better than the 1x30. I did the 1x30 thing for quite a while. Heck, I ground out a couple short swords and an 18" kukri on a 1x30. But even so, the Harbor Freight ones just won't do. Tracking isn't good enough, for one, and the power sucks. And if you're going to shell out the 100+ that a good 1x30 will cost (and bear in mind, those have TINY platens, which means if you want to do anything with a relatively wide blade, you're going to gouge your blade on the platen), you might as well get the 2x42 or 2x48 if you can find one. Sure, it can be done on a 1x30. But the 2x42 is a much better investment.
Better just to pick up some files and dispense with the grinder entirely if you're not sure you're going to like it, in my opinion, than to buy a cheap 1x30. The 1x30 is just going to be a waste of money if you decide you're going to stick with it, and entirely too much money if you decide you're not. And the drill press is worlds better than some cheap hand drill. That's a recipe for injury, IMO.
And even if you're just going to go the cheapest route, there's still a lot of associated expenses that a person just starting out won't have considered. You notice safety gear isn't on anyone's list but mine, for instance. And it really does pay to get some decent safety gear. That's gonna cost at least 50 bucks all told, most likely, even if he buys harbor freight gear (I got HF ear protection, for instance, at only a couple bucks, while a respirator there is like 17). Shop aprons aren't cheap, and neither are new pants if he burns a hole in his like I did. Steel costs around 15 dollars for 4 feet at Aldo, which isn't bad, but then, you're gonna pay 15-20 for shipping. Belts will cost 50-300 dollars, depending on how well he wants to kit out, if he's gonna buy a belt grinder. Epoxy is going to cost around 20-30 if he buys in bulk, or more than that if he buys the smaller ones in the "let's just try it out" mindset. Pin stock will probably add another few bucks, maybe 30ish more if he buys enough to make several knives (which he will, unless he finds he doesn't like it after the first one). Handle material can cost a bundle too, unless you've got a really good source of cheap or free stuff. A good hacksaw and blade is what, 50 more dollars? Call it 50-150 more for the drill press. Maybe 10 for a set of cheapo drill bits. More if he wants good ones that won't get ruined after a couple blades, and he doesn't know how to sharpen them. What about sheaths? Are all the blades just going to lack sheaths? If he's making fixed blades, which he will with limited tooling, he won't be able to carry the blades. Then there's the HT expenses; either in tooling, or in shipping them out and paying the fees (per blade). That adds up too. So yeah, at the end of the day, if you try to go the cheapo route, you're gonna find you're going to have spent pretty darn close to 1000 dollars, most of which will wear out pretty quickly because you bought cheap stuff instead of buying quality to start. So you really only "save" money if you end up not sticking with it. If you are pretty sure you're going to like it, you can get to using good tools that you'll be happy with much faster if you just cut to the chase.
So no offense to those of you giving short lists, but that's just not going to cut it. It's not a realistic depiction of all of the costs associated with starting up with knifemaking. The car racing analogy isn't really accurate, because the costs just aren't even in the same ballpark. Heck, it's not even the same sport, so to speak.
Here's how it could pan out, in my eyes:
1. You aren't sure you're going to like it. You buy the minimum possible amount of stuff including a cheap 1x30 (which, as above, ends up totalling at least 500, assuming you do it as cheaply as possible, with pretty much no power tools at all) but likely closer to 1000 dollars when you've made several knives). You discover that it's a pain, especially fighting the gouge marks and poor power from the cheap 1x30 you bought. You call it quits. You're only out a grand, which you could have spent buying several knives that you actually liked. Also, you have a tough time selling off your equipment because it's heavily used, and really low quality, so nobody wants to buy it.
2. You aren't sure you like it. You buy the minimum possible amount of stuff, including a cheap 1x30. You spend around 500 to 1000 dollars to make several knives. Despite the flaws with the equipment, which have become readily obvious to you, you decide you really like making knives, and that it's incredibly satisfying to make your own blades. You learn something new with every one, and you're sure you're going to stick with it. You decide you're going to upgrade your tooling so you don't have to fight issues like finding out that you can't get a good finish with your equipment because belt tracking is bad, and the platen too small, especially if you want to learn anything about convex grinds, which require a slack belt area. You wish you'd just purchased a better grinder, because you end up buying it anyways, and then never use the old one. What a waste. It takes you several more weeks/months/years to save up for the better tooling than it would have otherwise, and you end up with a bunch of old machinery cluttering up your shop. (This is the way that I chose to do it, by the way).
3. You buy better quality equipment to start. You have a much higher initial outlay, but you can make knives more quickly, and end up with a much higher quality product. Although you'd think you'd be more likely to like making knives this way, you still don't. Unfortunately, you're out a good amount of money from investing in higher quality tools, BUT, they're higher quality tools, and thus easier to sell to people who DO want to get into knifemaking, or just need a decent tool and are looking to upgrade. You recoup a fair amount of your investment, and you're in about the same position you would have been if you had purchased cheap stuff.
4. You are very sure you're going to love it, so you buy good quality equipment. You have a higher initial outlay, but you've got good quality equipment (maybe you even bought a real knifemaking grinder that's variable speed), and so you're not as limited by your equipment, so you can learn more than you would have been able to otherwise. You discover that you love it. You thank your lucky stars you didn't buy crappy stuff, since you've got good tools that you can actually make use of in your new hobby, and you don't find the burning need to upgrade soon after you discovered that you really ARE going to stick with it. You make lots of knives, and have a blast doing it.
That being said, the Craftsman can be had for around 200, while the Coote can be had for around 500 with a good motor. They're both good starter grinders, and WAY better than the 1x30. I did the 1x30 thing for quite a while. Heck, I ground out a couple short swords and an 18" kukri on a 1x30. But even so, the Harbor Freight ones just won't do. Tracking isn't good enough, for one, and the power sucks. And if you're going to shell out the 100+ that a good 1x30 will cost (and bear in mind, those have TINY platens, which means if you want to do anything with a relatively wide blade, you're going to gouge your blade on the platen), you might as well get the 2x42 or 2x48 if you can find one. Sure, it can be done on a 1x30. But the 2x42 is a much better investment.
Better just to pick up some files and dispense with the grinder entirely if you're not sure you're going to like it, in my opinion, than to buy a cheap 1x30. The 1x30 is just going to be a waste of money if you decide you're going to stick with it, and entirely too much money if you decide you're not. And the drill press is worlds better than some cheap hand drill. That's a recipe for injury, IMO.
And even if you're just going to go the cheapest route, there's still a lot of associated expenses that a person just starting out won't have considered. You notice safety gear isn't on anyone's list but mine, for instance. And it really does pay to get some decent safety gear. That's gonna cost at least 50 bucks all told, most likely, even if he buys harbor freight gear (I got HF ear protection, for instance, at only a couple bucks, while a respirator there is like 17). Shop aprons aren't cheap, and neither are new pants if he burns a hole in his like I did. Steel costs around 15 dollars for 4 feet at Aldo, which isn't bad, but then, you're gonna pay 15-20 for shipping. Belts will cost 50-300 dollars, depending on how well he wants to kit out, if he's gonna buy a belt grinder. Epoxy is going to cost around 20-30 if he buys in bulk, or more than that if he buys the smaller ones in the "let's just try it out" mindset. Pin stock will probably add another few bucks, maybe 30ish more if he buys enough to make several knives (which he will, unless he finds he doesn't like it after the first one). Handle material can cost a bundle too, unless you've got a really good source of cheap or free stuff. A good hacksaw and blade is what, 50 more dollars? Call it 50-150 more for the drill press. Maybe 10 for a set of cheapo drill bits. More if he wants good ones that won't get ruined after a couple blades, and he doesn't know how to sharpen them. What about sheaths? Are all the blades just going to lack sheaths? If he's making fixed blades, which he will with limited tooling, he won't be able to carry the blades. Then there's the HT expenses; either in tooling, or in shipping them out and paying the fees (per blade). That adds up too. So yeah, at the end of the day, if you try to go the cheapo route, you're gonna find you're going to have spent pretty darn close to 1000 dollars, most of which will wear out pretty quickly because you bought cheap stuff instead of buying quality to start. So you really only "save" money if you end up not sticking with it. If you are pretty sure you're going to like it, you can get to using good tools that you'll be happy with much faster if you just cut to the chase.
So no offense to those of you giving short lists, but that's just not going to cut it. It's not a realistic depiction of all of the costs associated with starting up with knifemaking. The car racing analogy isn't really accurate, because the costs just aren't even in the same ballpark. Heck, it's not even the same sport, so to speak.
Here's how it could pan out, in my eyes:
1. You aren't sure you're going to like it. You buy the minimum possible amount of stuff including a cheap 1x30 (which, as above, ends up totalling at least 500, assuming you do it as cheaply as possible, with pretty much no power tools at all) but likely closer to 1000 dollars when you've made several knives). You discover that it's a pain, especially fighting the gouge marks and poor power from the cheap 1x30 you bought. You call it quits. You're only out a grand, which you could have spent buying several knives that you actually liked. Also, you have a tough time selling off your equipment because it's heavily used, and really low quality, so nobody wants to buy it.
2. You aren't sure you like it. You buy the minimum possible amount of stuff, including a cheap 1x30. You spend around 500 to 1000 dollars to make several knives. Despite the flaws with the equipment, which have become readily obvious to you, you decide you really like making knives, and that it's incredibly satisfying to make your own blades. You learn something new with every one, and you're sure you're going to stick with it. You decide you're going to upgrade your tooling so you don't have to fight issues like finding out that you can't get a good finish with your equipment because belt tracking is bad, and the platen too small, especially if you want to learn anything about convex grinds, which require a slack belt area. You wish you'd just purchased a better grinder, because you end up buying it anyways, and then never use the old one. What a waste. It takes you several more weeks/months/years to save up for the better tooling than it would have otherwise, and you end up with a bunch of old machinery cluttering up your shop. (This is the way that I chose to do it, by the way).
3. You buy better quality equipment to start. You have a much higher initial outlay, but you can make knives more quickly, and end up with a much higher quality product. Although you'd think you'd be more likely to like making knives this way, you still don't. Unfortunately, you're out a good amount of money from investing in higher quality tools, BUT, they're higher quality tools, and thus easier to sell to people who DO want to get into knifemaking, or just need a decent tool and are looking to upgrade. You recoup a fair amount of your investment, and you're in about the same position you would have been if you had purchased cheap stuff.
4. You are very sure you're going to love it, so you buy good quality equipment. You have a higher initial outlay, but you've got good quality equipment (maybe you even bought a real knifemaking grinder that's variable speed), and so you're not as limited by your equipment, so you can learn more than you would have been able to otherwise. You discover that you love it. You thank your lucky stars you didn't buy crappy stuff, since you've got good tools that you can actually make use of in your new hobby, and you don't find the burning need to upgrade soon after you discovered that you really ARE going to stick with it. You make lots of knives, and have a blast doing it.
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just to play devils advocate my friend, now hear me out... when i first started out, i made probably 40 knives on a bench grinder which cost me 60 bucks at the time. then i watched charles Ochs video and moved onto angle grinders (which i still use a lot actually) and made a lot of cutlery using this method. Hell, with the angle grinder you can cut the blank out and grind most of your blade to shape in one tool.
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A few more things....
Read the stickies.
Buy a vise or two. You need something to hold the blade still while working on it.
Buy some C-clamps (or other similar clamps) for holding the blade in place while working it.
Files... lots of files. More. Still not enough. Got a drawer full? Good... you're halfway there. Get them at swap meets if you're cheap (like me). Oh by the way, use them to grind knives, not to be ground into knives.
Read the stickies again.
Allow your wife or girlfriend to kiss your fingers one last time... from here on out they will be dirty, gritty, ugly, and scarred.
Set your expectations correctly. Nobody you know or love will care about your knives for a good long while. They'll try to talk you out of continuing. They'll discourage you, telling you that you're wasting time and money. Don't get angry at them. Take pity instead. The poor creatures just don't understand you've lost control. They want to help but don't know how. Silly people. If only they knew there is no help or hope.
And by the way, welcome to the dark side.
Read the stickies.
Buy a vise or two. You need something to hold the blade still while working on it.
Buy some C-clamps (or other similar clamps) for holding the blade in place while working it.
Files... lots of files. More. Still not enough. Got a drawer full? Good... you're halfway there. Get them at swap meets if you're cheap (like me). Oh by the way, use them to grind knives, not to be ground into knives.
Read the stickies again.
Allow your wife or girlfriend to kiss your fingers one last time... from here on out they will be dirty, gritty, ugly, and scarred.
Set your expectations correctly. Nobody you know or love will care about your knives for a good long while. They'll try to talk you out of continuing. They'll discourage you, telling you that you're wasting time and money. Don't get angry at them. Take pity instead. The poor creatures just don't understand you've lost control. They want to help but don't know how. Silly people. If only they knew there is no help or hope.
And by the way, welcome to the dark side.
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- Jul 4, 2010
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- 872
Like Greg said! Read the stickies and if you do not understand what they are saying, ask questions about them. Jess
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- Dec 27, 2010
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- 6,852
Yikes, I can't believe I forgot about vises and clamps. Yeah, those are useful. I need some more of the small ones, actually. Rustyrazor, you must have a steady hand, my friend. I tried the angle grinder thing to grind the bevels and found it to be well beyond my capabilities. I still do use my bench grinder occasionally to hog metal away faster when I'm impatient though.
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- Oct 13, 2011
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nope... just really stubborn. that's why i tell people "no two are alike" because i spend a lot of time fixing my messes with files and sand paper. I used to have this bias against mechanical advantage in that i considered "hand made" knives a sliding scale, meaning the less tools you used, the closer to a "real hand-made" knife it was. so i tried to keep it real for a long while and stick with free hand grinding then filing and sanding. WAIT FOR IT... that has all gone out the window for me in recent times, thanks to this forum mostly. after watching the "stuck in the metal with you" thread among a few others I am now building 2 different grinding jigs as well as i'm in the process of searching for a 2x72 belt grinder and a small milling machine to speed up my process and up my accuracy.