How to wear an axe/hawk safely

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keluangus

Joined
Jul 11, 2006
Messages
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Hi All,

It's my first post - thanks for all the tips I've been reading in the forums hereabouts. I live in Malaysia - the British SAS sends their people here for equitorial warfare and survival training: I think you get the picture of the kind of forests we have here. Very much like Brazil.

The machete is my frontline work knife in the jungle, but it needs to be light and long enough for constant use (we're not 6 1/2 footers like you guys!). As so many of you are aware, that does not lend itself well to chopping anything other than leaves/grass/light branches. Part of the problem with machetes: its too long to have on the belt. Its like a damned sword and its cumbersome. So it tends to get left off the belt - that's no good for emergency situations.

So I want to have a small hatchet or hawk on my person as a survival tool, in addition to my fixed blade and folder. IMHO, leaves/branches one can brush aside or a 24" bamboo 'machete' can be made for it. But you need a good tool to cut down bigger branches or small saplings on a regular basis for survival tool or shelter or fire building.

I would like to know, how would one carry a 12" to 16" hatchet/hawk on his belt at all times without being a PITA. I have seen pictures of Mohawks/Apaches with the hawk tucked in the belt at an angle. But I wouldn't like to fall down with a razor sharp one around my belly!

Also - would there be any problem of a hawk twisting in the hand during chopping, since the shaft is round?

Thanks all. Keluangus.
 
You can get a sheath made for belt carry. Anyone who works with Kydex could do that readily. Generally you want a handle which is more oval than perfectly round.

-Cliff
 
HI, i believe you should look into the "small forest axe" type of axes. These are suitable for smaller individuals. An axe bouncing of the thing you are cutting might be because you have a too steep cutting angle, or the azxe is dull.

Maybe you should also consider other tools. FWIW i believe the Khukri would be a good choice for you. It can be used both for clearing brush, and fine cutting and you could even use it to defend yourself from a attack by wild animals. They come with a sheath and an extra smaller knife and a utility non sharpened tool included.
From a financial/practical point you should consider looking at stuff from http://www.khukurihouseonline.com/ very good quality :thumbup:

You could also look into http://www.himalayan-imports.com/ :thumbup: :thumbup: . Prices are higher here, because they have to ship it from Nepal to the USA and then from the U.S. to malaysia
 
You'll want iron close to body so it can't take too much momentum, of course a good axe shealth, sharpen side away from body.

Many people carry it tucked in the belt on their back. Belt shealth is better.

All that said, from books, TV... I've never heard of an axe being more convenient multi-purpose tool then a machete in jungle.
 
Ravaillac said:
... I've never heard of an axe being more convenient multi-purpose tool then a machete in jungle.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the suggestion.

Yes, of course the machete is more convenient than an axe in such a jungle. But I was referring to a tool that is convenient to have on one's person at all times. If you fall and roll down the side of a cliff or steep slope into a river or lake - guess what you loose first: the handheld machete, of course! :grumpy:

It comes back to the the ubiquitous argument of the best knife for survival being the one that you have on you - not the one sitting miles away at home or at the bottom of the lake.

Actually the tropical forest are not very dense all of the time. The rainforest canopy is so thick, shrubbery have too little sunlight to thrive. But the secondary forest areas are what gets ya.:D
 
Have been in the jungle fishing half dozen times. The people there use what ever they can get there hands on. Have seen a few guides carring items over there back and under there shoulder. You might want to check out a shoulder rig for a hawk...
 
I have a Fiskars 14" hatchet that's really quite nice, light and compact. It came with this plastic handle/sheath that looks like a cheesy display package, but actually has turned out to be very practical. The head of the hatchet simply snaps in. It could be easily tied to a belt or shoulder strap. It's fairly secure and can be made more so with the simple addition of a leather thong or lanyard. The handle of the hatchet is hollow and can be used to hold some supplies or another knife. This hatchet is relatively inexpensive and available in the US.

A short machete might also be an alternative. 12" machetes are common around here, come in a variety of weights, thicknesses, shapes, and often with sheaths available.

Smaller hatchets exist, but I wonder about their utility. And machetes smaller than 12" are in a different territory inhabited by a wide range of generally more expensive Bowie/military/survival knives, which may suit your needs.
 
I made a sheath for my hawk that covers most of the blade and I just tuck it in my belt. Never had a problem that setup.
Bob
 
Hi Shecky,

We got the Fiskars/Gerber axes over here too, and, I've always thought the 'cover' that comes with them looked dubious too. Thanks to you I might think again.:thumbup:
I have tot of the bowie/jungle knife alternative, such as the RTAKs and Swamp Rats - but in general one needs a blade 9" long if a chopping performance comparable to an axe is desired. Now, a 9" long bladed knife can also be pushed into slashing/machete duty - but now it gets heavy if the same blade is strong enough to chop well! :grumpy:
The RTAKs and etc., in total are at least 12" long and weigh as much as a hatchet with a 12" handle. I believe there's no argument that oz for oz and inch for inch, the hatchet wins in regard to chopping duty. As I have said in the beginning, I would have a machete but that's expected to be lost.
The only problem I have with the Fiskars/Gerber axe type cover, is that they are kinda bulky. Sure, there's space inside for more EDC stuff. But again, if it is unweildy, then it might end up being left behind.
I think I shall make a small cover for it out of kydex (as kindly suggested above) or some other material.
 
rdg said:
I made a sheath for my hawk that covers most of the blade and I just tuck it in my belt. Never had a problem that setup.
Bob
Click to expand...

Hi Bob - can you tell me what material you used to make the sheath? Have you ever used normal rivets (brass) with plastics/leather to make a sheath? thanks.
 
Keluangus welcome to the forum . You live in an interesting part of the world .

I made a drop in sheath for a hawk by taking the sole off a slim ankled ladies boot . The hawk drops in from the top . It is cradled by the shape of the foot and heel of the boot . The top point just rests inside but is still exposed to view from above . I do not think it would be safe for work . If you fell down there would be nothing to stop the hawk from popping out next to your ribs .

If you have access to church sales or other places where suitable boots are discarded perhaps you could fashion a flap of some kind to go over the top and hold the hawk in . .

Let us know of any tricks you have for chopping or homemade sheaths you have seen . Practical experience teaches the most .
 
I made mine out some fairly thick leather. I put a narrow strip of it in between the halves of the body where the cover would contact the cutting edge, I stitched it with fairly heavy thread (actually it was the cord the phone company uses to bundle it's wire cables - very strong and durable) and I put rivets in the corners. It has a snap on the top edge to keep it on. It's nothing to look at, but it works. I wish I could do pictures, as that is easier than trying to explain it. Biggest thing is use something that the blade can't easily penetrate. I reprofiled my hawk until it will shave the hair off my arm so I really don't want it cutting me. You may need to use a different type of material if you are dealing with high moisture levels. Riveted kydex might do well under those conditions.
Bob
 
Kevin the grey said:
I made a drop in sheath for a hawk by taking the sole off a slim ankled ladies boot .
Let us know of any tricks you have for chopping or homemade sheaths you have seen . Practical experience teaches the most .
Click to expand...

Kevin,
That's brilliant! Who would've tot of using a boot?! But I must agree that the material is generally too thin to protect me from the sharp edge.

Bob,
Thanks for the tip. I do hope you mean pop rivets, which are what I intend to use with some thick leather. Just gotta remember the protective piece for the cutting edge..

Most people over here don't use a hatchet, they use a parang. It's normally a bowie like blade that's 10-13" long, with a beak handle. The beak handle allows the blade to drop lower than the hand - kind of like a kukri but the bend is in the handle instead of the blade. But in cutting the profile is almost the same as the kukri. Actually, I have never seen the aboriginal natives here carry, use or rely on the machete. They move between the jungle, not slash through it. That's why they always look cool and composed. If you slash like hell in this climate, after 2 hours you're winded.

The locals and natives also use axes from time to time, but not in the way I intend. The 'jungle people' are so at home in the rainforest, they are very cavalier when it comes to survival and tools. Normally a single parang and a BIC lighter will do them for a few days. The chopping I have seen and used are pretty regular. But, because the locally made parangs/axes are at best made of spring steel and the hardening/tempering dodgy, we chop without much force - allowing the weight, profile and design of the knife to do its job. 30-45 degree alternating chops are common. You should see what these guys can fashion out of bamboo - complete set of table and benches - with almost flat table surface not just bamboo tied together - in less than 2 hours. They are only scared of 1 thing: tiger attack. Every year we still loose 1-3 people to them, and these are only the reported ones. Then there's rogue elephants...

While most people would think what the natives do would be the ideal solution, I disagree. We have to know our limitations - and these natives (by that I mean the jungle dwelling aboriginals) are the product of generations of surviving there. They are PART of the forest. I have seen them pull leeches off just like that - without any bad lesions or infections afterwards. Our skin (I'm Asian, not Caucasian!) and countenance would never hold up to that.

Keluangus
 
Check out Survival Sheath Systems, their stuff is impressive. Especially shoulder carry options. An ATC VTAC in a Survival Sheath shoulder sheath, with the webbing removed, carried baldrick style, maybe with the handle tucked into your belt, seems like a nice weather-proof way to go.

When I carry a wooden-handled hawk in the woods, usually I tuck it in my belt, on the rear of my left hip, with the blade turned to the rear. When I need it, I pull it up by the head with my left hand, then grip the handle with my right hand, ready to go. It suits me alright.

Good luck.

Take care.
 
Depending upon the ladies boot the leather is thick enough . If I remeber correctly I folded the toe back in and a little bit down the leg of the boot . . It made a deeper front which doubles the thickness and covered the entire blade . The heel/back is usually reinforced and so will not collapse . Worse comes to worse you could add another layer of leather in the front and have it be part of a flap to secure the hawk inside .

One thing . To get a boot with a slim ankle it usually is a zippered boot . If you do this try to remeber to use the boot that will keep the zipper on the inside .

I use a Kukuuri made in Nepal By H:I: . No jungles to hack through here . It is great to take small trees down and to shape wood in general . I am sure I could take on a tiger with it if it would be so kind as to not eat me . L:O:L

Do any of the natives make bows and arrows . Are they nice to look at ?
 
Thanks Madnamanus for the pointer - will go find it on google.

Kevin,
I was seriously considering the kukri - again my problem was that it does not a good machete make (too heavy), and its also pretty long and heavy for the chopping I need compared to a hatchet. In the end I realised the cutting profile of the kukri is just like our parangs! So I might as well use what's here.

Yes they do make bows and arrows - but unfortunately these are quite simple things and not intended for medium or long range. That's due to the dense forest we got here. The bow is made from what we call 'iron wood' - like teak, its very very dense - but really I have no idea how well it works.

The #1 hunting implement here is the blow pipe. Again, these are made of iron wood and up to 8 feet in length. The darts are made with bamboo and are 8" long, tipped with a poison made of all kinds of stuff like poisonous plants and boiled bees, etc. Interesting thing is - there is a shorter version with a spear head lashed to the end. It is a combo blowpipe and spear! I have tried many times to shoot one, but its quite difficult to hold such a long heavy pipe steady and blow/expell hard to fire the dart accurately. The natives use it to bring down monkeys & etc., 30-40' up in the trees!!

If you like bows and stuff, the indochinese crossbows made out of wood are quite ingenious. They don't use feathers for the fletching of the bolt - its made from a flat thin piece of bamboo, folded into a delta vane! Brilliance born of necessity and simplicity.
 
Wow that bamboo fletching sounds interesting . Is there any chance of a pic ? We have ironwood here . They might be related . It makes excellent bows and is highly sought after . I wonder how they hollow the ironwood to make a blowgun . It is tougher than oak . I have a Boken (practice sword) made from it . I mostly use it as a walking stick . My friend who made it for me practiced with a guy who had an oak Boken . The ironwood boken broke the oak boken in two .

The Kukuuri has many sizes , shape difference and weights . While there are some designed for cutting through vegetation you may be right that there are tools better designed for the job .

The hawk may be an example of this . They make excellent camp tools . Some are designed primarily as a throwing implement as opposed to being designed for other kinds of work . Some are a comprimise between the two . .
 
Kevin,

I tot you'd think so! Sorry, I don't have a pic. But its like this - if you have flat strip of bamboo about half inch wide, make an imaginary division of its length into 3 equal parts, fold the strip back on itself in a 60degree angle at the point of the division - after 2 folds you'd find the strip have made a complete triangle. Clamp this triangle into the split butt of the bamboo bolt and glue in place - finally lashing the butt close. Taadaa - bamboo fletching. Of course - don't expect any helical effect! Its just a stabiliser - but at short distances it works.

Ironwood and its relatives are great. Indeed, in the past strong bokens have been very good weapons in their own right. I've always wanted to keep one beside my bed - for obvious reasons. Then again, the wife could use it against me one day...

Yes, they have a very labourous technique to do it. Kinda like primitive boring or reaming. They use a metal bit (probably bone or stone in the past) attached to a long stick. A simple high platform is built, the pipe held firm, and away they go - rolling the stick between the palms - like starting a fire. Arms must hurt like hell at the end of the day.

I am going to get a local blacksmith to hammer out a hawk head for me - the local handploughs are made in exactly the same way but heavier and with the blade turned horizontal to the shaft, of course. Only thing is, I am not sure if the head should be round or oval (where the haft or the handle goes through). Any advice is appreciated.
 
You.ll get lots of good advice concerning hawks here or on the makers forum .

The eye hole on a hawk is tapered from top to bottom with the wide end at the top . The handle is inserted in from the top unlike an axe . With the eye being tapered and the handle being tapered it wedges into place . When the tapered eye is done well this wedging is very tight . The best shape is slightly ovoid though I have seen them almost round .

Some makers will use a lower carbon steel on the body of the hawk and forge in a length of a good worn out file file where the edge is . Hawks are a hoot . If you can get him to forge a hammer poll or axe back onto it . Some hawks have a simple round back which is not as versatile .

Your description of the bamboo fletching is very interesting . Is the fletching shaved pretty thin ? How tall and long is each side of the triangle ? How much length is visible outside the shaft ? what diameter is the shaft ? Last question I promise . L:O:L
 
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