Im really hung up on not buying the knife, I fear that the blade will look poor after any kind of minuse or moisture...etc. I saw a review by a guy in england and his looked rather dark, and aged, Does this steel hold up well, Is it a better option to go with the new Carpenter Bd30P.
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How well does the M4 Manix steel resist rust etc.
- Thread starter hkpistole
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M4 holds a scary sharp edge longer than just about any steel out there but it will rust if you breathe on it. Unless you have a buffing wheel you will likely end up with a patina on your blade.
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CPM-M4 will rust, it is a tool steel after all. However, with proper care and maintenance it should not be an issue. It is not like the steel that a car axle is made from that rusts even with noa raina or moisture. Many people in coastal areas have this steel and have no issues. Wipe the blade after you use it, keep the knife clean.
I believe I know what review you're talking about, and the dark/aged look is a natural patina forming on the M4 steel. I don't think it weakens the blade at all, but due to the makeup of M4 steel it tends to happen with use. In other words, it is mostly cosmetic. I think it's mostly associated with food prep or extended exposure to moisture.
From what I've read BD30P is the Carpenter Steel equivalent of S30V, so it should be easier to maintain than M4 with regards to cosmetic appearances. However, M4 is known for its toughness and edge retention. Both are good steels so it's your call based on what is important to you.
From what I've read BD30P is the Carpenter Steel equivalent of S30V, so it should be easier to maintain than M4 with regards to cosmetic appearances. However, M4 is known for its toughness and edge retention. Both are good steels so it's your call based on what is important to you.
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Blade coatings make knives look like weapons more than tools. Besides the DLC does not prevent rust, care and proper maintenance does.
Forcing a patina on that blasw does in no way compromise blade strength, that is nonsense. It creates a seal of sorts on the knife. It is associated with oxidization of the steel, but to a lesser extent than your standard orange rust. A patina reduces the liklihood of rust but does not prevent it.
I expect the review you mention was mine (link) on this very site.
As per the review, my blade developed some light staining which I attributed to rabbit blood which I had not cleaned-off promptly, though it could have been a combination of factors. Let me make it clear- I was being pretty lax about blade care and some surface staining occurred, therefore I made a conscious decision to let the blade patinate by a process of "supervised neglect". That is to say, deliberately NOT cleaning the blade after contact with "corrosive" material. Not exactly a forced patina, but not far off.
Since then, the patina has stabilised (although it gets thinned near the edge by stropping. I love the look of the blade with its stained flats and glowing edge! No pitting/bubbling/scale has appeared.
Conversely, my Gayle Bradley M4 has had a wipe with an oily rag (a tiny strip I carry in a spy capsule on a mini carabiner) and it looks like new. I don't mind having to look after a knife a bit; it's a bonding experience, like fettling a motorbike, rubbing down a horse or brushing your dog!
BD30 will be more stain resistant but I wouldn't want to put you off M4 so long as you can be bothered with some minor knife care.
As per the review, my blade developed some light staining which I attributed to rabbit blood which I had not cleaned-off promptly, though it could have been a combination of factors. Let me make it clear- I was being pretty lax about blade care and some surface staining occurred, therefore I made a conscious decision to let the blade patinate by a process of "supervised neglect". That is to say, deliberately NOT cleaning the blade after contact with "corrosive" material. Not exactly a forced patina, but not far off.
Since then, the patina has stabilised (although it gets thinned near the edge by stropping. I love the look of the blade with its stained flats and glowing edge! No pitting/bubbling/scale has appeared.
Conversely, my Gayle Bradley M4 has had a wipe with an oily rag (a tiny strip I carry in a spy capsule on a mini carabiner) and it looks like new. I don't mind having to look after a knife a bit; it's a bonding experience, like fettling a motorbike, rubbing down a horse or brushing your dog!
BD30 will be more stain resistant but I wouldn't want to put you off M4 so long as you can be bothered with some minor knife care.
I meant to say that patina tends to occur/happen with use, not that patina compromises blade strength. Sorry for the confusion.
Xavierdoc, great review by the way. Its not that the pics put me off in any way, they where outstanding photos to say the least. Its just the first time had seen that finish, The G.B. pics all look like stainless. I take great care of my knives, my wife jokes about me sharpening and oiling while we watch some mindless tv show.. the only knives i have that arn't stainless is a composite D2 leek and a Esee 4. I think i'll get the M4 cause its just such a tank of a blade steel in my researching.
like others have said just wipe the blade off when your done. do that and your golden. I really like m4, easy to sharpen, super sharp, and stays that way. Just wipe it on your shirt and oil it once a week ad you shouldnt see any problems. maybe more oil if you live on the coast or jungle
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noone mentioned it so i'll do.
M4 is far far more rust/patina resistant than simpler carbon steels like 1095, on my GB i forced a patina with a strong acid so now it's almost black, but my M4 millie just has a slight greyish color overall with some darker spots after quite a lot of use, and all my edc folders are used to eat twice a day.
M4 is far far more rust/patina resistant than simpler carbon steels like 1095, on my GB i forced a patina with a strong acid so now it's almost black, but my M4 millie just has a slight greyish color overall with some darker spots after quite a lot of use, and all my edc folders are used to eat twice a day.
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Black bladed GB? I bet that looks awesome.
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M4 is VERY good about rust compared to most traditional carbon steels. But remember to take anyone's opinion on here with a grain of salt. Hell, I've seen people talk down vg10 for it's lack of rust resistance, of all steels.... And, yeah I have seen people talk about M4 rusting if you look at it wrong, but that has been the opposite of my experience. And MOST people on BF talking about m4 steel agree that it resists rust very well for not being "stainless"..
However it will discolor a little bit unless you keep it crazy clean and dry all the time. This is not rust, and it's a ridiculously light version of patina compared to something like 1095. Some people freak out with discoloration, if that's you you *might* want to look at other steels, but don't because this steel is amazing. And, frankly, if you can't handle a knife with a few different shades of gray on it, maybe you should trade that knife in for a nice, cupcake scented chapstick or something
My anecdotal evidence. I live in California, I ride my bicycle to work, and I keep my CPM M4 military clipped inside my waistband, which means it is riding up against my boxers. I also work manual labor 9+ hrs a day. And I carry this knife EVERY day. My boxers are damp from sweat within the first hour of work, continuing all day, and I have some days where I only use my knife once or twice, and when I pull it out it actually is covered in sweat droplets. Which means it is sitting in a dark, humid place, covered in water for hours at a time and has had no rust problems. It darkened a little where the water tends to sit, and one particularly bad day it had a light peppering of flaky rust which you practically needed a magnifying glass to see. But I literally took a few swipes of a pencil eraser on it and the rust was gone.
I have not oiled the blade of this knife since I received it months ago. And even still, you have to look at it from the right angle to see the discoloration, from some angles it looks brand new. Also, I've never used anything but a few swipes on the white sharpmaker rods to keep it sharp. this steel is incredible.
cliff notes: if you want an amazingly strong and wear resistant steel, and don't mind if it takes a very, very light amount of staining then do not hesitate to get CPM M4. I would feel perfectly comfortable having a boat/water knife made of this steel, the staining is that little of a problem.
However it will discolor a little bit unless you keep it crazy clean and dry all the time. This is not rust, and it's a ridiculously light version of patina compared to something like 1095. Some people freak out with discoloration, if that's you you *might* want to look at other steels, but don't because this steel is amazing. And, frankly, if you can't handle a knife with a few different shades of gray on it, maybe you should trade that knife in for a nice, cupcake scented chapstick or something
My anecdotal evidence. I live in California, I ride my bicycle to work, and I keep my CPM M4 military clipped inside my waistband, which means it is riding up against my boxers. I also work manual labor 9+ hrs a day. And I carry this knife EVERY day. My boxers are damp from sweat within the first hour of work, continuing all day, and I have some days where I only use my knife once or twice, and when I pull it out it actually is covered in sweat droplets. Which means it is sitting in a dark, humid place, covered in water for hours at a time and has had no rust problems. It darkened a little where the water tends to sit, and one particularly bad day it had a light peppering of flaky rust which you practically needed a magnifying glass to see. But I literally took a few swipes of a pencil eraser on it and the rust was gone.
I have not oiled the blade of this knife since I received it months ago. And even still, you have to look at it from the right angle to see the discoloration, from some angles it looks brand new. Also, I've never used anything but a few swipes on the white sharpmaker rods to keep it sharp. this steel is incredible.
cliff notes: if you want an amazingly strong and wear resistant steel, and don't mind if it takes a very, very light amount of staining then do not hesitate to get CPM M4. I would feel perfectly comfortable having a boat/water knife made of this steel, the staining is that little of a problem.
Jason B.
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
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It's similar to your leeks cpmD2.
If you fear corrosion, patina or just plain discoloration due to usage then there is a simple remedy>> Sentry Solutions has a product called TUF CLOTH which leaves a protective film on all knives and does an excellent job. I use it on all my "USER BLADES" and it hasn't failed yet. Even on Carbon Steel blades I've had great luck with it.
Don't let any corrosion factor run you off from any knife because there are great preventative measures you can take that work great. I'm personally looking forward to my first Spyder with M-4. I've had my worst luck with ZDP-189 myself but I still love the performance of that steel and I take preventative measures to ward off any corrosion problems. There are plenty of products out there now a days to prevent such problems. JD
im familiar with all the products, im an avid Ar shooter, built many, i have all the products for prevention. i just wasnt sure how the blade would react to certain situations. Im sure it wouldnt even be a problem, just like to get your guy's takes on certain things.
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To say that M4 will rust if you breathe on it is just plain wrong. I have a Bradley that I got when they were first released. I live in NC where it gets hot and humid for over half a year. M4, and all my other steels are kept rust free with a couple of simple steps. If you get something corrosive or salty on your knife wash it off. Then dry your knife. Then oil it.
I personally use silicone instead of oils as I have better luck. I keep a silicone cloth ( $2.99 @ hunting section of big box stores) for use after I cleaned the blade off. Recall that even sweat on a fingerprint has salt on it so never store a carbon steel, or alloy steel overnight with a fingerprint on it.
If you grew up with old style blued pistols and rifles it's basically the same thing. A lot of guys here grew up with Glocks and AR's and other tools that have rust resistant coatings so they never had to develop good habits with their tools. It's really very easy to be honest, anf M4 is no where close to being the worst knife steel as far as corrosion resistance.
If you want to see a steel that rusts try Hitachi white steel. If not coated you will see just how fast some steels can rust. M4 isn't in the same solar system.
I personally use silicone instead of oils as I have better luck. I keep a silicone cloth ( $2.99 @ hunting section of big box stores) for use after I cleaned the blade off. Recall that even sweat on a fingerprint has salt on it so never store a carbon steel, or alloy steel overnight with a fingerprint on it.
If you grew up with old style blued pistols and rifles it's basically the same thing. A lot of guys here grew up with Glocks and AR's and other tools that have rust resistant coatings so they never had to develop good habits with their tools. It's really very easy to be honest, anf M4 is no where close to being the worst knife steel as far as corrosion resistance.
If you want to see a steel that rusts try Hitachi white steel. If not coated you will see just how fast some steels can rust. M4 isn't in the same solar system.