How would a felon get his RKBA restored?

Many years ago I had a martial arts training buddy who, as a young man, badly beat up a guy who had raped his sister. He was charged with attempted murder. He had bad legal advice and pleaded to a lesser felony. After about 15 years with a clean record and some good recommendations from clergy, law enforcement, etc., I tried to help him apply for a Certificate of Rehabilitation. It was a complicated process and, unfortunately, he was not a paperwork kind of guy. He ended up giving up on the process. However, it's something to consider.

If you Google a term like "California Certificate of Rehabilitation", you'll probably pull up some info on the process.

Best of success,

DancesWithKnives
 
Morimotom,

I'm really happy that our man won. Weiss was a real disaster, in so many ways. Thanks for your work on the election!

DancesWithKnives
 
If you'd read the 1998 Caron decision, you'd know why such persons were successfully prosecuted by the Feds. Under Caron, a state's partial restoration of a felon's firearms privileges (e.g. just long guns, not handguns) does not exempt the person from being a "prohibited person" under GCA-68. SCOTUS ruled a state's full restoration of firearms privileges (which may be obtained through a variety of methods short of a governor's pardon) does restore a felon's federal "privilege" to possess firearms and ammunition.



You evidently haven't read the overwhelming federal case law affirming convictions under GCA-68 in which persons were successfully prosecuted for the intrastate, not interstate, manufacture of firearms and/or ammunition or the possession of firearms/ammunition manufactured in that state. Felons in Massachusetts have been convicted under GCA-68 for the intrastate possession of a Smith & Wesson handgun manufactured in MA; felons in Minnesota have been convicted under GCA-68 for the intrastate possession of Federal brand ammunition manufactured in MN.



[...sigh...] I wish I had a dollar for every person rotting in a federal gulag who followed such "legal advice." The Feds classify black powder as an "explosive" (unlike smokeless powder which is classified as an ammunition component). The possession of any quantity of black powder, even a single firecracker, by a convicted felon is a federal felony punishable by up to ten years in prison. See 842 U.S.C. § 842(i)(1). Felons have been convicted under this statute for merely possessing fireworks just as they've been convicted under GCA-68 simply for possessing any ammunition component, even primers or empty cartridge cases.
Black powder firearms are available through mail order from Cabelas and other such places. Modern cartridge firearms cannot be so ordered because of GCA 68. A felon can own a black powder firearm. Whether or not he/she can own the black powder, Pyrodex and projectiles is another matter. Also, just because a firearm is manufactured in one state doesn't mean that it did not do some travelling before retail sale. One such example is a certain Remington 700 .308 bolt-action rifle. It was manufactured in Ilion NY, was shipped to a warehouse in Massachusetts and then was shipped to a retail firearms dealer in San Francisco. It was ultimately purchased by Jack Beam, a high-ranking member of the Peoples' Temple. This rifle was among dozens of firearms illegally smuggled into Jonestown, Guyana by this cult, under the orders of the Rev. Jim Jones. This particular Remington ultimately was used to murder Rep. Leo Ryan during the Port Kaituma airstrip shooting before the mass suicide in 1978. This rifle was among the firearms turned over to the U.S. Embassy by Guyanese officials and traced by BATF agents. The BATF reports concerning the investigation are available online.
 
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Black powder firearms are available through mail order from Cabelas and other such places. Modern cartridge firearms cannot be so ordered because of GCA 68.

The fact something is, or is not, available for purchase through mail order doesn't make it legal for a person to possess. There's nothing physically stopping a felon or other "prohibited person" from buying ammunition or reloading components "through mail order from Cabelas and other such places" or simply doing so at a local Walmart. The instant such a person is in possession of a single cartridge or ammunition component, he commits a federal felony under GCA-68. Any person can buy a radio scanner by mail order; the last time I checked it's a crime in two states for a felon to possess such a device. When I lived in California, there were stores which would sell a billy club to anyone wanting to buy one. It's a felony in California for a non-LEO to merely possess a billy club.

A felon can own a black powder firearm.

In numerous states, there are state laws which expressly contradict that statement and people have been imprisoned for years for blindly following such advice. As far as federal law, good luck explaining your notion to Leonard G. Green, Jr. He was prosecuted by the Feds for being a felon in possession of a .36 caliber black powder revolver. The BATF conceded the weapon did not constitute a firearm as defined under GCA-68; that didn't matter to the U.S. Attorney's office or the court. The judge, citing pertinent case law, ruled that black powder firearms are firearms. See U.S. v. Green, 515 F.Supp. 517 (D.Md. 1981).

Whether or not he/she can own the black powder, Pyrodex and projectiles is another matter.

What possible use is a black powder firearm when a felon can't legally shoot it? :confused: Possession of any quantity of black powder by a "prohibited person" is a federal felony under 842 U.S.C. § 842(i)(1). Possession of a propellant other than black powder would constitute illegal possession of an ammunition component under GCA-68.

Also, just because a firearm is manufactured in one state doesn't mean that it did not do some travelling before retail sale.

The example you cited obviously involved interstate commerce. In the cases I referred to previously, none of the firearms or ammunition had done any interstate travel before retail sale. The S&W handgun had been manufactured and sold within Massachusetts; it never left the state. The box of Federal rifle ammunition had been manufactured and sold within Minnesota; it never left the state. In every such case I've studied, the defendant was successfully prosecuted by the U.S. Attorney's office.

While ignoring the Second Amendment, judges from U.S. magistrate and district courts all the way to SCOTUS (as do legislators responsible for such laws) artfully misconstrue the Constitution's interstate commerce clause as a pretext for authority for anti-gun (and anti-knife) statutes. In the case of firearms manufactured and sold within one state, judges ruled since the iron ore used in the production of the steel came from another state, that was a sufficient "nexus to interstate commerce" to uphold a GCA-68 prosecution. In the case of rifle ammunition manufactured in Minnesota, the Sierra match bullet used by Federal was produced in another state and that was all the judge needed.

TOM1960, I'm not trying to nitpick or look for an argument with you. I'm trying to prevent people from suffering dire consequences by following (all too common) erroneous legal advice. Contrary to what you wrote, in many states there are procedures in which a person convicted of a state (not federal) felony can get his or her "privilege" to possess firearms restored without receiving a governor's pardon. This has to be done very carefully and, under Caron, only a full restoration of all firearms privileges will exempt a person from a GCA-68 prosecution.

Since the possession of any quantity of black powder by a "prohibited person" is a federal felony, why would a well-intentioned felon want to own a black powder firearm he couldn't legally use? Some state anti-gun statutes expressly forbid possession of black powder firearms by felons. As the defendant in Green discovered, all federal prosecutors and judges don't share your interpretation of whether black powder firearms are legal under the U.S. Code. Even in states with laws which "allow" felons to possess antique and/or black powder firearms, I've read numerous cases in which conniving judges found ways to circumvent the language in the statute and convict defendants who peaceably possessed such arms.

I am in no way defending any type of restriction on the possession of any arm by any person anywhere. My intent is solely to prevent people from needlessly facing legal jeopardy by following inaccurate advice. If you study federal case law, you'll find example after example of people whose anti-gun convictions were affirmed by appellate courts despite being previously assured by attorneys, sheriffs, chiefs of police, etc. that it was legal for them to possess the firearm in question. The fact the defendants relied on the advice of attorneys and/or LEOs at the time didn't matter one whit later in court when they were convicted.
 
The fact something is, or is not, available for purchase through mail order doesn't make it legal for a person to possess. There's nothing physically stopping a felon or other "prohibited person" from buying ammunition or reloading components "through mail order from Cabelas and other such places" or simply doing so at a local Walmart. The instant such a person is in possession of a single cartridge or ammunition component, he commits a federal felony under GCA-68. Any person can buy a radio scanner by mail order; the last time I checked it's a crime in two states for a felon to possess such a device. When I lived in California, there were stores which would sell a billy club to anyone wanting to buy one. It's a felony in California for a non-LEO to merely possess a billy club.



In numerous states, there are state laws which expressly contradict that statement and people have been imprisoned for years for blindly following such advice. As far as federal law, good luck explaining your notion to Leonard G. Green, Jr. He was prosecuted by the Feds for being a felon in possession of a .36 caliber black powder revolver. The BATF conceded the weapon did not constitute a firearm as defined under GCA-68; that didn't matter to the U.S. Attorney's office or the court. The judge, citing pertinent case law, ruled that black powder firearms are firearms. See U.S. v. Green, 515 F.Supp. 517 (D.Md. 1981).



What possible use is a black powder firearm when a felon can't legally shoot it? :confused: Possession of any quantity of black powder by a "prohibited person" is a federal felony under 842 U.S.C. § 842(i)(1). Possession of a propellant other than black powder would constitute illegal possession of an ammunition component under GCA-68.



The example you cited obviously involved interstate commerce. In the cases I referred to previously, none of the firearms or ammunition had done any interstate travel before retail sale. The S&W handgun had been manufactured and sold within Massachusetts; it never left the state. The box of Federal rifle ammunition had been manufactured and sold within Minnesota; it never left the state. In every such case I've studied, the defendant was successfully prosecuted by the U.S. Attorney's office.

While ignoring the Second Amendment, judges from U.S. magistrate and district courts all the way to SCOTUS (as do legislators responsible for such laws) artfully misconstrue the Constitution's interstate commerce clause as a pretext for authority for anti-gun (and anti-knife) statutes. In the case of firearms manufactured and sold within one state, judges ruled since the iron ore used in the production of the steel came from another state, that was a sufficient "nexus to interstate commerce" to uphold a GCA-68 prosecution. In the case of rifle ammunition manufactured in Minnesota, the Sierra match bullet used by Federal was produced in another state and that was all the judge needed.

TOM1960, I'm not trying to nitpick or look for an argument with you. I'm trying to prevent people from suffering dire consequences by following (all too common) erroneous legal advice. Contrary to what you wrote, in many states there are procedures in which a person convicted of a state (not federal) felony can get his or her "privilege" to possess firearms restored without receiving a governor's pardon. This has to be done very carefully and, under Caron, only a full restoration of all firearms privileges will exempt a person from a GCA-68 prosecution.

Since the possession of any quantity of black powder by a "prohibited person" is a federal felony, why would a well-intentioned felon want to own a black powder firearm he couldn't legally use? Some state anti-gun statutes expressly forbid possession of black powder firearms by felons. As the defendant in Green discovered, all federal prosecutors and judges don't share your interpretation of whether black powder firearms are legal under the U.S. Code. Even in states with laws which "allow" felons to possess antique and/or black powder firearms, I've read numerous cases in which conniving judges found ways to circumvent the language in the statute and convict defendants who peaceably possessed such arms.

I am in no way defending any type of restriction on the possession of any arm by any person anywhere. My intent is solely to prevent people from needlessly facing legal jeopardy by following inaccurate advice. If you study federal case law, you'll find example after example of people whose anti-gun convictions were affirmed by appellate courts despite being previously assured by attorneys, sheriffs, chiefs of police, etc. that it was legal for them to possess the firearm in question. The fact the defendants relied on the advice of attorneys and/or LEOs at the time didn't matter one whit later in court when they were convicted.
Yes, but some of these people are victims of selective enforcement. Boston PD combined with BATF agents to take a number of "impact players" (the most violent of the gang members terrorizing the Roxbury/Dorchester sections of the city) using "felon in possession of firearm" under federal law. As long as the Assistant U.S. Attorney is interested in prosecuting, this is an option. Most felons who are caught with firearms in Massachusetts get nailed for carrying w/o license or possession w/o FID card, which will add an additional state felony to their (usually considerable) criminal record. The local U.S. Attorney's office can't prosecute every possible offense. They simply do not have the resources to do so.

Consider the case of singer/guitarist David Crosby. He was convicted of two felonies in Texas (concealed pistol and freebasing cocaine), a felony (concealed pistol in car) in California AFTER the Texas convictions and an arrest/conviction for possessing a fully loaded pistol along with two knives in his luggage in NYC. He was fined and handed a suspended sentence by a New York court and fined by the California court. Why wasn't he turned over to the feds for being an armed convicted felon? Obviously, the authorities in California and NYC could have turned these cases over to the feds. Whether the Assistant U.S. Attorneys would spend the time and money to prosecute is quite another story.
 
Yes, but some of these people are victims of selective enforcement.

Please identify a single example I cited as a "victim of selective enforcement" of the law. If by "selective enforcement" you mean every single felon arrested for being in possession of a firearm, ammunition or black powder wasn't prosecuted by the DOJ on federal charges then the same could be said for drug and switchblade knife violations. I'm pretty sure the defendant in Green wasn't an "impact player" as I'm not aware of any violent gang in contemporary America armed with .36 caliber black powder revolvers.

The local U.S. Attorney's office can't prosecute every possible offense. They simply do not have the resources to do so.

For years in many jurisdictions, the DOJ has actively encouraged state prosecutors to refer anti-gun cases to them since the defendants would be likely to receive longer sentences under federal guidelines than in many state courts. The next time I hear an AUSA refuse to accept an additional GCA-68 prosecution for "lack of resources" will be the first.

Why wasn't he turned over to the feds for being an armed convicted felon? Obviously, the authorities in California and NYC could have turned these cases over to the feds. Whether the Assistant U.S. Attorneys would spend the time and money to prosecute is quite another story.

You may as well ask me why Claude Shelby, the drug using/smuggling son of Senator Richard Shelby (R-AL), received vastly more lenient treatment from the criminal justice system than that accorded average citizens caught smuggling hashish into the USA. Or why G. Gordon Liddy hasn't been prosecuted for being a felon in "constructive possession of firearms" for living in a house containing dozens of guns while other non-famous American felons have been prosecuted and convicted of "constructive possession of firearms" stored thousands of miles from where they lived. Life is not fair.

The objective reality is the DOJ routinely prosecutes "prohibited persons" guilty of the peaceable possession of firearms, ammunition and black powder for wholly innocent purposes. Phillip W. Bates was sentenced to 15 years in a federal gulag for being a felon in possession of firearms. He wasn't a gang member; he possessed a shotgun while working as a duck hunting guide in Arkansas. The 8th Circuit Court of Appeals admitted it was absurd to sentence a person to 15 years in prison for merely duck hunting ... then affirmed the sentence. See U.S. v. Bates, 77 F.3d 1101 (1996). The last time I visited the BATF's website, they were bragging about the long prison sentence they obtained against a Wisconsin felon guilty of the heinous offense of possessing some empty cartridge cases. You may chalk up thousands of such cases as "selective enforcement" if you like.
 
Morimotom,

I'm really happy that our man won. Weiss was a real disaster, in so many ways. Thanks for your work on the election!

DancesWithKnives

agreed.

our work paid off, and we had a good time at his party.

off-off-topic, his daughters are hot!!! :D
 
CM, 18 USC 842 prohibits felons from possessing "firearms" or "ammunition".

Believe it or don't but even the airgun you described is defined as a "firearm".

Alleged "Blackpowder exception" to 842 stems from language pertaining to "sporting purposes". There is no specific exemption for Black Powder.

You "could" go hunting with black powder weapon, and you would "probably" be OK, but do you want to roll those dice? Avg sentence for someone with your criminal history would be around 3-5 years, and then supervised release.

This advice may only be worth what you paid for it.

Thank you for your service.

Dave
 
Since the OP asked for pics, I guess the hot daughters are now "on topic"! Wish I were a lot younger!:o

DancesWithKnives
 
family.jpg
 
Very nice... Still, I'm very happily married :D
l_900bea0a9b8a4001af1f1ce63ac3587e.jpg
 
If I were married to her, I wouldn't have a wandering eye either.

Congrats!

DancesWithKnives
 
CM, 18 USC 842 prohibits felons from possessing "firearms" or "ammunition".

18 U.S.C. § 842 has nothing to do with firearms and ammunition; it only pertains to "explosive materials." The federal statute which prohibits designated "prohibited persons" from possessing firearms and ammunition is 18 U.S.C. § 922(g).

Believe it or don't but even the airgun you described is defined as a "firearm".

"Firearm" is defined in 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(3): "The term “firearm” means
(A) any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive;
(B) the frame or receiver of any such weapon;
(C) any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; or
(D) any destructive device. Such term does not include an antique firearm.
"

The term "explosive" is defined in 18 U.S.C. § 844(j).

The air gun Charlie Mike previously mentioned functions through the use of a canister of compressed gas, not the "action of an explosive" and is not a firearm under GCA-68. I invite you to cite a single federal prosecution of a felon for the mere possession of any type of air gun which functions through the use of compressed gas, a spring piston, etc. A few states have a broader (arguably nonsensical) definition of "firearm" which would cover air guns; most states do not and neither does the U.S. Code.
 
Consult a local, sympathetic attorney if you possibly can. Since you're an honorably discharged veteran (thank you! :) ), perhaps you could network with the boys down at the VFW or American Legion and find someone willing to help you pro bono?

Please be very careful before buying anything that might remotely be considered a "gun". Just because you, me or anyone else here claims it doesn't fit the legal definition doesn't mean doodly to a zealous police officer or DA. They don't have to convict you to make a mess of your life and cost you a pile of cash.

With the current stink about knife rights, we need to be very careful but very vigilant in these matters.
 
Please identify a single example I cited as a "victim of selective enforcement" of the law. If by "selective enforcement" you mean every single felon arrested for being in possession of a firearm, ammunition or black powder wasn't prosecuted by the DOJ on federal charges then the same could be said for drug and switchblade knife violations. I'm pretty sure the defendant in Green wasn't an "impact player" as I'm not aware of any violent gang in contemporary America armed with .36 caliber black powder revolvers.



For years in many jurisdictions, the DOJ has actively encouraged state prosecutors to refer anti-gun cases to them since the defendants would be likely to receive longer sentences under federal guidelines than in many state courts. The next time I hear an AUSA refuse to accept an additional GCA-68 prosecution for "lack of resources" will be the first.



You may as well ask me why Claude Shelby, the drug using/smuggling son of Senator Richard Shelby (R-AL), received vastly more lenient treatment from the criminal justice system than that accorded average citizens caught smuggling hashish into the USA. Or why G. Gordon Liddy hasn't been prosecuted for being a felon in "constructive possession of firearms" for living in a house containing dozens of guns while other non-famous American felons have been prosecuted and convicted of "constructive possession of firearms" stored thousands of miles from where they lived. Life is not fair.

The objective reality is the DOJ routinely prosecutes "prohibited persons" guilty of the peaceable possession of firearms, ammunition and black powder for wholly innocent purposes. Phillip W. Bates was sentenced to 15 years in a federal gulag for being a felon in possession of firearms. He wasn't a gang member; he possessed a shotgun while working as a duck hunting guide in Arkansas. The 8th Circuit Court of Appeals admitted it was absurd to sentence a person to 15 years in prison for merely duck hunting ... then affirmed the sentence. See U.S. v. Bates, 77 F.3d 1101 (1996). The last time I visited the BATF's website, they were bragging about the long prison sentence they obtained against a Wisconsin felon guilty of the heinous offense of possessing some empty cartridge cases. You may chalk up thousands of such cases as "selective enforcement" if you like.
David Crosby obviously must be friends with some very influential people. Crosby, Stills and Nash played a concert in NH last week. Despite the fact that he is a three-time felon (three-time-loser?) and theoretically should have been imprisoned for the rest of his life.
 
I thought "3 strikes" was only a CA thing?
 
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