Howdy, with introduction

B

b4thewheel

Joined
Dec 22, 2009
Messages
18
Evening guys, and happy new year to all.

I've been looking for a specific place to make and introduction and get started. This after lurking for some weeks. And I'm just not seeing a region of the forum specifically for that purpose. So hope I'm not out of line for posting this here.

Something like 25 years as a potter, I've come to the conclusion that I must find another hobby/profession. And this for two reasons. (well, probably lots of reasons, but here is two) One, I'm kind of just bored with kilns, clay and the wheel.

Two, I hope to suppliment some income eventually. I have a bit of retirement from the forest service, and with that and the pots, I've gotten by all these years. But--------

How I came to the conclusion that gradualy becoming a knifemaker was the path for me was this: I've always loved blades, and picked up a few factory made knives over the decades, plus have always wondered how those really nice custom and hand made ones were created, the ones I've seen in magazine adds and such. Then a few months ago while cleaning the shop I stumbled into an old used planer blade that was part of my dads collection of junk when he passed. I figure it's D-2? Anyway, I'd kept it around for years thinking I might try to make a knife or short sword out of it someday, so when it turned up a couple months ago I started grinding on it. Didn't take long to realize I don't have the tools to do anything nice with it.

So jumped online and started reading and searching. Now I'm hooked. I can do this. A million questions of course, but I can do this. I realise I wont live long enough to become great at it, but who know.

So I've been saving up dough like crazy, I'm maybe half way there for a KMG. Dug around and found four or five electric motors hiding here and there in dusty corners, but the bigist one is a 1HP, and it's an open frame, and I think it's too high RPM, dang it. Rearranging the kiln shed to make room for a forge, which I will build myself. Have an old venturi burner from a long disused gas kiln. I have a sarter anvil, (50lb cast iron, unfortunately, but it's a start) a drill press, plenty of hand tools. May try one of my smaller electric kilns for initial heat treating untill I figure out what's best. Heck, could probably even use as forge, though even my smallest one is too large to be cost effective. Have a couple of old burnt out elecricl kilns I might try dismateling and using the components to build a table top blade kiln

Also have lots of kaowool ceramic fiber hanging around. Truth is, the idea of starting at the bottom again, at a knew craft and art is pretty intimadatin. I aint no sping chicken.

But I been


reading all the great info and great post here, and I'm seeing what kind of people are into this bladesmithing art, and I just keep telling myself, "I can do this!!! These guys are lot most potters I know. Self suficient. Innovative. Creative and generous. I can do this. I'm going to do this.

Anyway, thanks for listening, and I'm honored to make you guys's aquaintence!

Best wishes for a great, prosperous, and peacful new year to all.

Leland Hall,
Before the Wheel Enterprises,
Fiine Raku Pottery and Sculpture (and eventual bladesmith)
La Pine, OR
 
Hi Leland im Kelly wiens from saskatchewan Canada you will find this forum a great guide into becoming a great knifemaker alot faster than you think. You already have kiln knowledge so you know alot more than most , sounds like you have alot of tools and a great ambition and drive to hammer out some blades. Go to look at indian georges forge he has a blue print on his page very good one. A KMG is the way to go hold off if you can to buy one. When I started a year ago I made a couple knives out of an old set of ice auger blades. Then I did about 8 knife blanks to get the handles figured out better. Then bought some 440c and cpm154 3/32 thick x 1.5 wide x 8 inches long and ground out my first few blades doing a convex grind first then a few flat then back to convex and a few months later hollow grinds free hand . Its really alot harder than a convex grind but in my opinion easier than flat grinds . You can start with files but its really alot harder to do than with a Kmg for stock removal. I wouldnt wast my money on 1x30 or a 2x42 grinder. I would get a cheaper 2x72 first like a coote or one simular in the 400 dollar range. This forum has plenty of people that are willing to give you tips to help you out, I still ask alot of questions but am now able to help on the easier tasks. kellyw
 
Welcome Leland,
While you put most of the details in your post, filling out your profile is very helpful, as it posts your location every time you make a post. Someone near you may well offer you the chance to visit his shop for some first hand experience.

Unless funds are not a problem, before jumping in and buying a KMG, an entry level grinder ,like Kelly suggested, is a good option.
Besides the grinder, you will need $100 in belts, sandpaper, a few other supplies,some handle material, and some steel. Depending on what knife making tools and fixtures you get, figure maybe $200-300 to get started. Oregon has some great exotic and premium wood dealers, so handle material is no problem.
Read the stickies at the top of this forum, and the tutorials on several other sites.
Get a couple of good knifemaking books, and read them cover to cover.
Go online and get the catalogs from as many knife suppliers as you can. Most can be downloaded, but the hard copy makes good perusing at night. They are also usually full of tips and ideas on knifemaking. Some suppliers are:
K&G
Texas Knife supply
Jantz
Sheffield Knife Supply
Alpha Knife Supply
Pop's Knife Supply

Starts simple. A drop point hunter is fairly basic, and quite salable. Make several, maybe 10 or more, of the same knife, one after the other ( not started at the same time) and see how your ability progresses. By knife ten you should have some idea if this is going to be the hobby for you.

While on the subject of hobbies - consider this a hobby. It is not likely to make any income for a long time...if ever. If you get your knives to salable quality, it can offset some of the expenses, but few makers make a real profit off their knifemaking. You do have the advantage of already having some equipment and hand-eye skills.

Here is a list of tutorial sites and other places - you may want to save these in your favorites folder:

http://www.knivesby.com/knifemaking.html
http://www.cashenblades.com/contents.html - (check the metallurgy,techniques, and other info)
http://www.admiralsteel.com/
http://www.dfoggknives.com/links.htm
http://www.dfoggknives.com/index.htm
http://forgegallery.elliscustomknifeworks.com/
http://gbrannon.bizhat.com/heattreat.htm
http://www.knives.com/heatreat.html
http://gbrannon.bizhat.com/instructionallinks.htm
http://www.evenheat-kiln.com/technical/heattreat/heattreat.htm
http://64.176.180.203/sitedirections.htm
http://knifedogs.com/index.php
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=523845
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=599423&highlight=PID
http://gbrannon.bizhat.com/multipletutorials.htm
http://www.gilmerwood.com/

That should help get you some info.
Welcome,again
 
bladsmth said:
welcome leland,
while you put most of the details in your post, filling out your profile is very helpful, as it posts your location every time you make a post. Someone near you may well offer you the chance to visit his shop for some first hand experience.

Unless funds are not a problem, before jumping in and buying a kmg, an entry level grinder ,like kelly suggested, is a good option.
Besides the grinder, you will need $100 in belts, sandpaper, a few other supplies,some handle material, and some steel. Depending on what knife making tools and fixtures you get, figure maybe $200-300 to get started. Oregon has some great exotic and premium wood dealers, so handle material is no problem.
Read the stickies at the top of this forum, and the tutorials on several other sites.
Get a couple of good knifemaking books, and read them cover to cover.
Go online and get the catalogs from as many knife suppliers as you can. Most can be downloaded, but the hard copy makes good perusing at night. They are also usually full of tips and ideas on knifemaking. Some suppliers are:
K&g
texas knife supply
jantz
sheffield knife supply
alpha knife supply
pop's knife supply

starts simple. A drop point hunter is fairly basic, and quite salable. Make several, maybe 10 or more, of the same knife, one after the other ( not started at the same time) and see how your ability progresses. By knife ten you should have some idea if this is going to be the hobby for you.

While on the subject of hobbies - consider this a hobby. It is not likely to make any income for a long time...if ever. If you get your knives to salable quality, it can offset some of the expenses, but few makers make a real profit off their knifemaking. You do have the advantage of already having some equipment and hand-eye skills.

Here is a list of tutorial sites and other places - you may want to save these in your favorites folder:

http://www.knivesby.com/knifemaking.html
http://www.cashenblades.com/contents.html - (check the metallurgy,techniques, and other info)
http://www.admiralsteel.com/
http://www.dfoggknives.com/links.htm
http://www.dfoggknives.com/index.htm
http://forgegallery.elliscustomknifeworks.com/
http://gbrannon.bizhat.com/heattreat.htm
http://www.knives.com/heatreat.html
http://gbrannon.bizhat.com/instructionallinks.htm
http://www.evenheat-kiln.com/technical/heattreat/heattreat.htm
http://64.176.180.203/sitedirections.htm
http://knifedogs.com/index.php
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=523845
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=599423&highlight=pid
http://gbrannon.bizhat.com/multipletutorials.htm
http://www.gilmerwood.com/

that should help get you some info.
Welcome,again
Click to expand...

i wish i took his advice when he gave it to me-but all is well__welcome--marekz
 
Well look as if they have covered about every thing there.I would find some one that is close to You.Then call them up and see if they mind showing You around this will help You allot on see what they use and how they use it.I live in central part of Texas and I welcome anyone to come and look around.You will get more out of a visit then you can Imagen take a pen and note book with You.
 
A warm intro deserves a warm welcome.
Welcome to forums. Here is a nice place to be in :thumbup:...

BUT! :

b4thewheel said:
One, I'm kind of just bored with kilns, clay and the wheel.
Click to expand...

you know if you do knife making you'll mess with those a lot, so you can run but can't escape !! :D:p Clay coated blades, heat treating kins, grinder wheels, we have'em all ;)

Emre
 
What a bunch of great welcomes, and tip and links. I can't all of individually, but thanks!!

I'll get to that profile page just as soon as I get back today from looking over my buddy scrap pile. He has most of the iron I'd need to buil the KMG clone should I decide on that root, and has invited me over to go through his scrap. It seems that that is one of the first biggest debates for any beginner, which grinder to go with. I sure hate buying tools twice, entry level then whatever is better later. On the other hand, it obviously wouldn't hurt to have two or more around in the end, it looks like most of you do.

That's a great search link, already spent several hours there, thanks.

I see the howdy got sombody thinking I'm in Texas, nope. Just very rural Oregon.

I think I can build the KMG clone. I'm undecided how to cut the iron though. Torch is so rough. If I thought I'd use it much for the knife making, I'd pick up the 6x48 belt/disk sander with one HP motor one sale at Harbour Frieght and torch cut long cuts and use my cut off saw for the short cuts and use that HF sander to clean and square up what needed it. It's on sale right now for two bills. Just don't know. That Coote sure looks heavy duty, but not the cats meow I see.

Another thing I may have to my advantage is I'm kind of OCD when comes to figuring out new stuff. It's how I learned the pottery wheel. How to rebuild shovelhead Harleys. Whatever. Once my mind gets made up, everything else kind of disapears untill I'm rolling. I'v had some strings of years just kind of vanish cause of it. Probably a marriage or two went missing that way too, so gotta watch out, wouldn't want that to happen again.

Thanks again guys, I'll be back.
 
Welcome to BF.

If you're looking at this for any sort of income I really hope you have at least 2 years of time before you need to see some "net." If you're as OCD as you seem and a craftsman of the level raku pottery indicates then you may take even longer to see a net profit of any sort due to your OCD requirements of understanding steel.

If you want to make money at knives I'd recommend starting off as a stock removal maker. There's less techniques to learn and the process is shortened and simplified if you don't have to learn to heat and beat steel. :p You'll still have to do stock removal even after you forge a blade so it won't be wasted time.

Please start simple (although I think you know this) there's nothing worse to me than to see a new maker wasting money on exotic materials and half learned techniques on a bad knife. A simple, well executed knife is wayyyyy more desirable to a customer than a fancy materialed, exotic designed and poorly executed blade. I often tell people that elegant never goes out of style. You can take a nice black evening dress or tux from 50 years ago and still wear it out because it's a timeless design. Elegant never relies on "bling". There's a reason people constantly make a Loveless 4" drop point hunter, it's elegant.... you get my point. :)

A good example of someone learning and understanding processes before doing them is Josh Dabney on these forums. His 5th knife is truly a thing of beauty with wire inlay and just flawless work. He wears funny pajamas for an adult male though so I dunno.... :confused: :p

Tooling.. ah my favorite subject.... there are a lot of good knives turned out with minimal tooling. Don Fogg, Wolfgang Loerchner (who doesn't own a power tool), Larry Fuegen on the extreme high end; Dale Baxter and Chris Moss in the middle range; myself and a whole lotta others at the low end (not saying I make a good knife, just that I turn a blade out :p.) I started with very little bought all the bells and whistles and cranked out knives and found out I was happier wth nothing. Just about to finish what I call the "Shift", my first knife in a long time with no power tools (well I did use a hand drill to drill the handle material and to pierce the guard material). Files, sandpaper, some cheap fixtures and a bucket of sweat are all you really need to make a knife.

Hang on tight, enjoy the journey in another craft. My father in law and I love pottery and he says he's going to build a kiln soon although this will be done in "blacksmith time" so probably 3-4 years (he's an accomplished ornamental iron and copper smith and artist.)
 
Hey, thanks Will. Yup, plenty of time. But I tend to get movin' once I choose a path. Yer right though, took years and years to make any dough with the pottery. And never did or will make a lot. But it's become fairly consitant, so that's good.

I just found USA knifemakers website, and have been looking at their no weld grinder. I had seen those plans on Ebay, and though that they were the same as the one that bolts together, but now I realise that this version useing tubing, and that you can buy a frame kit for 350. This is looking real appealing to me. Cutting up all that heavy heavy steel for the other one does not seem to apealing right now. I need to keep making pots to pay the way other things. Maybe I'll buy the kit. Want a ten inch contact wheel though, will that work on that one? I sent them an e-mail asking.



Thaks again.
 
One other thing that helps a lot of makers on BF out is to use their real name as their screen name and as their maker's mark. It drives customers crazy trying to figure out some squiggly line mark. There are exceptions of course but that just proves the rule so to speak. When you get ready to start selling them, I'd recommend a membership on BF so you can sell on the forums, this gives you a lot of great international exposure to customers that would be almost impossible to find or contact otherwise.

Good luck on the journey and if I can be of any help please feel free to email me.
 
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