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Hows Bucks 420 HC
- Thread starter SGT
- Start date
It takes more frequent stropping to keep the edge nice and crisp compared to higher end steels, but it does take a nice edge. It's very easy to sharpen and once it dulls I just strop my 110 on any hard surface, such as a stick of wood, a steel rod etc and re-align the edge to shaving sharpness. If you don't mind rubbing the blade on a hard surface every so often like I describe, I don't think you'll have any problems with it. It's tough, hard to chip, very corrosion resistant and so on.
I've never been a fan of Bucks 420HC. It is to gummy for my taste and forms burrs too easily which makes it for me actually more difficult to sharpen than some of the high performance steels. A personal opinion only of course.
As to toughness...I don't know, I used to think the same but I broke the tip of a fixed blade chipping ice (cup sized pieces from the freezer, not on a lake) quite easily, which is really not a tough job, since ice is pretty fragile (in that size). The edge also chipped pretty badly (0.5 mm) on me under slight sideloading opening a can.
But mine is only one opinion, there are plenty of people that like 420HC.
As to toughness...I don't know, I used to think the same but I broke the tip of a fixed blade chipping ice (cup sized pieces from the freezer, not on a lake) quite easily, which is really not a tough job, since ice is pretty fragile (in that size). The edge also chipped pretty badly (0.5 mm) on me under slight sideloading opening a can.
But mine is only one opinion, there are plenty of people that like 420HC.
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- Apr 20, 2001
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Great working steel, sharpens easy and holds it's edge well.
HoB, I find with softer knives like Buck's and SAKs, it's better to not grind them on stones. Rather just strop as I said. It seems useless to me to remove the metal when you don't have to. But you're right that they burr easily, which is one of the reasons during say heavy woodworking they can use some stropping every so often. I don't think it's too much maintenence for myself though.
I have an 887 in 420 - It cuts antifreeze and 6 gallon jug cardboard pretty well, it will dull on formica where ats or S30v will hold up. How much of that is blade profile or the extreme hollow grind I don't know. I sharpen with a small set of white crock sticks from Buck, and the edge dulling is less now as I use it. Aus8a does seem to need less sharpening.
I like the 420HC, but it depends on what you are using the knife for. I like it for hard chores and outdoors work as it is ridiculously easy to resharpen. You can even use a rock edge to sharpen it! It is pretty ductile, the cutting edge has suffered no nicks from cutting thus far. ATS-34 will hold the edge longer and be more stain resistant, but it will be harder to sharpen and can be prone to edge chipping (depends on heat treatment). There is a major price difference too: You could buy two or three 889s in 420HC for the price of one 882SBT or 882SBTG in ATS-34. I'd go with the 882SBTG as it is easy to disassemble for complete cleaning and proper lubrication of the pivot area, compared to the riveted design of the 889 and 882SBT. Also, the black oxide coating of the 889 is not great. It comes off very easily with use, so it is a no-no for food work. The 882SBTG is uncoated, mine happens to be tumbled, but I think newer ones come bead blasted.
Of course, I like this design so much, I've got 2 889s, an 882SBTG and an SnG! There is no perfect steel for all purposes (although S30V and H1 may be pretty darn close!), so just pick a knife you like from a company with a good warranty. Buck's is certainly very good!
Of course, I like this design so much, I've got 2 889s, an 882SBTG and an SnG! There is no perfect steel for all purposes (although S30V and H1 may be pretty darn close!), so just pick a knife you like from a company with a good warranty. Buck's is certainly very good!
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- Jul 28, 2003
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SGT said:
It makes for a marginaly better blade than wood will.
The HC refers to High Carbon and Buck on their website and in their advertising call their 420hc a high carbon steel. It's a lie, 420hc steel has about .45 carbon content. The steel industry doesn't call a steel high carbon till it gets to .60
I compared a new 110 with 420hc with my old 110 bought back in the 80's and the new 420hc, 110 failed miserably performing the same tasks.
420hc is rubbish regardless of who is using it. Don't waste your money on it.
Cliff Stamp
BANNED
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- Oct 5, 1998
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HoB said:
That's lame, the ice especially. I don't think that's the expected performance however. Note 420HC is very close to 12C27m, a well respected scandinavian stainless steel.
-Cliff
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Cliff Stamp said:
Manufacturers who use 420hc aren't the least bit concerned about the performance it will provide the consumer. When pressed even Buck will admit the switch in steels was not done to provide the consumer a better product but instead to accomidate manufacturing.
H2O2 is chemicaly "very close" to H2O, the latter is a tasty beverage and the former is a caustic oxydizer. Human's are genitically "very close" to apes, The two aren't remotely capable of the same tasks.
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I like my 889 a lot, 420HC included. I know I'm in the minority on that, but that's my vote.
The blade is a breeze to sharpen, and takes a great edge, but it does degrade fairly quickly. So, you will be sharpening relatively often, but as stated, it's very easy to bring the edge back.
It's obviously not premium steel, and it doesn't perform like premium steel. However, I wouldn't say it's bad steel. I like my Buck 420HC knives.
When I'm going to be subjecting my knife very hard use, I find I often reach for my 889, because I don't have to worry about breaking or damaging a $100+ knife. So it often gets carried instead of my HK 34, mini grip, or Emerson CQC for that reason.
The blade is a breeze to sharpen, and takes a great edge, but it does degrade fairly quickly. So, you will be sharpening relatively often, but as stated, it's very easy to bring the edge back.
It's obviously not premium steel, and it doesn't perform like premium steel. However, I wouldn't say it's bad steel. I like my Buck 420HC knives.
When I'm going to be subjecting my knife very hard use, I find I often reach for my 889, because I don't have to worry about breaking or damaging a $100+ knife. So it often gets carried instead of my HK 34, mini grip, or Emerson CQC for that reason.
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Wow... this could go for sometime. I have owned/carried a Buck 110 or a 112for years. I have NEVER had a problem with the steel, edge holding ability, or anything else for that matter. It's not my first choice for steel in a blade, but IMHO the "gear head" or "steel snob" in us knife nuts is getting "just a bit outside".
Yes there is better steel, but really.... will 420 fail you to the point that you couldn't continue with whatever task is at hand? Just my .02
Yes there is better steel, but really.... will 420 fail you to the point that you couldn't continue with whatever task is at hand? Just my .02
Cliff Stamp
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Ilovetoolsteel said:
Phil Wilson uses it in his customs, you might want to read what he has written about it. He is very much concerned about the performance it offers to his customers. He also offers very hard and high carbide steels, he just realizes that "superior" depends on the application and isn't a uniform label which ignores the type of knife and the needs of the customer.
In terms of composition most steels are in fact very similar, even moving from S30V to 420HC isn't that drastic a difference in terms of overall composition because they are all mainly iron, aside from the extreme ones like REX 121 which have a massive carbide fraction. However if you look at the specific composition, what actually makes it steel, then these are very similar and in the same class. This is why there are of course classes of steels with similar behavior, D, S, A, etc. .
420HC is a low carbide stainless steel, sub-optimal in terms of martensite hardness and optomized more for corrosion resistance and durability than hardness and wear resistance. The same is true of 12C27m. For certain knives that isn't a bad thing. I have used 420HC from multiple manufacturers and other similar steels like 12C27m. You can make an arguement that one is better than the other, but there is no way you can support a fact based arguement that one is excellent and the other worthless.
Note critizing 420HC harshly because it is softer and has less wear resistance than ATS-34 and thus concluding it is worthless would be like saying L6 is worthless compared to M2 because the exact same attributes hold for that comparison.
-Cliff
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Cliff Stamp said:
I went to his website except to mention that he uses it. There is nothing on his site about it. The impression I get is he mostly uses 154cm and CPM steels
But the discussion wasn't about Phil Wilson, it was about Buck and their 420hc. Furthermore even Buck admits they went to the steel not for any customer based performance related issues but for ease of manufacture. You can try to ignore that fact but that's why Buck uses 420hc.
So your are saying, If I were inclined to make a tool like a knife, designed for say, Cutting stuff? 420hc would be the least desirable option?
I never said one was excelent and the other was worthless, I just said 420hc was worthless.
We have gone around on this before, You can put this pig in a prom dress all you want but she's never going to be voted prom queen.
I am criticizing 420hc solely on it's merits. It is inferior as a cutlery steel. It fails to meet the reasonable minimum performance requirements of what is expected from a knife.
Edge holding is paramount among those requirements.
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tarmix101 said:Yes there is better steel, but really.... will 420 fail you to the point that you couldn't continue with whatever task is at hand? Just my .02
Actually that is exactly what happened, I had to stop and sharpen a 420hc Buck 110 to complete the task. A task that my 1980's vintage 110 performed starting out less than newly sharpened.
SGT said:
The 882s are basically the same as the 889, but with partially serrated edges, a crinkled blade area and Tarani being added under the Buck/Strider stamp. I think the 882SBTG is the best buy of the bunch as you can easily disassemble the knife for thorough cleaning. All the others are held together with rivets. The only drawback to the ATS-34 Buck/Strider models is they cost 3X more than the 420HC models.
The 889 is a fine series of knives. Buck's 420HC may not be the best steel in the world, but it works fine for hard use. You'll have to sharpen more often, but the edge won't chip as easily as ATS-34.
For $55, the 889 SBMF is a great buy. It is also excellent for airline travel since I won't risk my SnG or 882SBTG to grabby handed TSA and/or baggage handlers.
Ilovetoolsteel- I have a few Bucks in their 420HC. The steel is hardly worthless.
It cuts. It holds an edge.
I have found it to be better than their Chinese 440C.
420HC is not 420J2.
420HC is not high-end, but it works. And it isn't the worst by any means.
It cuts. It holds an edge.
I have found it to be better than their Chinese 440C.
420HC is not 420J2.
420HC is not high-end, but it works. And it isn't the worst by any means.