Human Shield?

By "easier to convert electricity to useful work than it is to convert heat," I meant also that the conversion of electricity to work is more efficient than the conversion of heat to work. It's much more difficult to prevent loss the product, heat, to the environment than it is for electricity.

I do agree that current electric motors have a ways to go before being comparable to internal combusution engines. Perhaps a hybrid utilizing a hydrogen turbine/steam engine instead of gasoline combustion engine would help.

The problem with photovoltaics is low energy-density and low efficiency. Oil is ultimately the result of plant's storage of solar energy as energy-rich molecules via photosynthesis. Last I heard plants were much better capturing and utilizing solar energy than photovoltaics.

How many year-acres of plant growth does a tanker of gasoline represent? What area of photo-voltaics is needed to generate that same ammount of energy in a reasonable time? How long must a photo-voltaic array operate before it generates an ammount of energy equal to that used to produce the photo-voltaic from raw materials? How do the ecological implications of covering a large swath of land and depriving it of sunlight compare with say, strip-mining coal? What would be the implications of the by-products and pollutants of producing a huge ammount of the semi-conductive materials utilized in photovoltaic cells?

I seldom see these types of questions asked. They are difficult ones. Even trying to follow and assess the parts of the energy equation that are currently valued in dollars is nearly impossible, due to it's convolution with subsidies, politics, hidden costs like projecting military power elsewhere in the world, etc. How much have I paid for a gallon of gasoline or the infrastructure to make it available before I even buy it at the gas station? And many parts of the energy equation aren't currently valued in dollars.

I'm not saying it's hopeless, but I seldom see more than tiny bits of the equation discussed. It is entirely possible that a large conversion to an alternate technology could create new, worse ecological problems or effectively place us in overall "energy debt" and/or monetary debt for an unacceptably long time before net break-even. The dollar break-even for supplimenting house-hold heating of water with photo-voltaics can be many years.

Trying to reduce the size of the problem certinly can't hurt though, even if does mean scaling down expectations away from 7,OOO lb personal vehicles, 10,OOO sq foot residences with heating/cooling plants, or yes, even less "punchy" acceleration on the car, at least if one must have one the size and weight of most current ones.

Rant completed.
 
When the roads crawl to a standstill with congestion, the problem will be largely solved.



munk
 
Oh boy, I should never let those posts acumulate.

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HJK


As I understand it, after a war the new government will be Western friendly. That is going to open up for Western companies to enter Iraq. There is going to be a lot of development and rebuilding needed to be done. The current oil technology in Iraq is ineffective because it is non Western. Productivity level is very low. The Iraqis are not satisfied with what the Russians have been doing, they haven’t fullfilled their promises. Iraq has actually already sacked Russia’s biggest oil company from one field. The market will be open with plenty of space for oil companies of all nationalities. The Western ones are most competitive due to efficient technology. Just a natural line of causes and effects, but it might take a decade or more to happen.



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Munk


Quote: "is that the free press you mean?"

Check again what I wrote. I wrote with the sentiment that no press is free or unbiased.


Quote:"Eikerverang, it is you who propose being outside the US gives you insight. Sarcasm would seem very indicated."

Well, I said: "I think Kendo is posting from the same place as I am posting from: the world outside USA. That's why our perception is oil oriented."

That specifically states my observation of some differences in perception on each side of the Atlantic. It is nothing but a descriptive observation of that fact. And then later I specifically stated that I viewed both our presses as biased, which means having a correct insight would be difficult for any of us.
Quoting myself on essential piece:
"...of how popular opinion is being shaped in both our respective parts of the world..."

I must say I don’t quite understand how you could misunderstand me on this.



Qouting Munk:
"What half, or even all of Europe believes does not concern me at present. In the abstract, if the global culture war continues in the current fashion, that PC half of Europe will have disarmed all civilian populations. I suspect the end will occur about then- too late for negotiation with terrorists. We establish a precedent now or die."


There is a global cultural war going on allright, but it is something else that is the issue.

PC half of Europe? In what way do you mean? (I know the term)

Disarmament here?

And what does disarmament of civilians have to do with terrorists?

How will we die if we don't establish a precedent at this very instant?


Quoting Munk:
" We're saving your future whether you know this or not, so that little Eikerangs in Universities all across the globe can debate the evil of oil."

That is a bit hard to say just yet, but speaking of history you have been doing that for us for a very long time. So I will agree to that you are saving our asses a lot. I must say I don’t like it. Do you know why? Because it is not right. If we had done our part we would have had to restructure our economy, become more competitive. For the common man it would mean lower wages, shorter holidays, less great holidays, lengthen the workdays, don’t get paid for several months by your employer after you’ve lost your job, loose your job a lot easier, less statal welfare, expensive educations… and so on… The things that we do don’t work very well for our economy, but for our people. So we would stop having a 0% of our population below the line of poverty and instead get the same 12,7% as you. Life would get harder, crime would rise. But now, we are just sitting here on our welfare butts.

You said something about this universe not being fair. I agree, but I don’t have to like it. The situation between you and me reminds me too much about old prerevolutionary France where some people used to do labour while others used to have a jolly good time. It never was fair and never will be, but I still don’t like it.



Quote:
"Iraq going down is moving a large way towards dealing with the Saudis. The shockwaves will make it far easier to hopefully encourage a revolution in Iran and self reflection in others."

Self reflection? From those guys?

I am just going to translate parts of something that I found here in a conservative right wing newspaper:
http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/uriks/article.jhtml?articleID=473383

Professor of modern history Odd-Bjørn Fure:

I believe that a military action in Iraq this time, unlike in 1991, will have unforseen consequences. This is about a military attack in the world's most conflict filled region. It is quite clear that a war against Iraq this time will not have active support from any Arab country. Some countries will hesitatingly and after lasting pressure offer bases to disposition for USA's forces, but there is broad and unified resistance among the peoples of those countries against such policies.

The military forces that eventually will be used in a war against Iraq will therefore solely consist of soldiers from the Western countries, with the main force from USA and Great Britain, and possibly with symbolic participation from Italy and Spain. It will be a war with clear cultural and religious dividing lines: Western and Christian states against an Arab and Muslim state who will have massive and unified sympathy and support among people in other Arab countries.

This will also be a war between the frontline representative for Western modernness and a country that represents the societal structure and backwardness of all Arab countries, no matter if they are poor or rich. This wide separative gorge will be demonstrated by that the high tech and well equipped attacker will suffer minimal casualties, while the attacked will suffer great losses. Because of the dense populations we must count on mass murder of civilians and also loss of irreplacable cultural heritage sites (Muslim sites).

In the Middle East it will also be registered that an earlier colinial power, Great Britain, is participating in an attack war against an earlier colony. A war that will sharpen and further define the seperative lines and oppositions that exist between the West and the Arab countries.

This will all together be experienced as a total humiliation by the broad masses of people in the Arab world.

That this will create further basis for terrorism in our part of the world is self given. A war that is presented as a step in the war against terrorism, will eventually give the terrorism a mighty updrift. There are many prominent politicians in USA and Europe who have understood this. But unfortunately most of those who contain executice powers are immune against this insight.

In the 20th century it has been shown that wars can unleash unimagenable forces of destruction, that ended in massacres and genocide. An attack on Iraq, where it is probable that Israel in some way or another will be involved on USA's side, can lead to that the already escalated conflict between the Isrelians and Palestinians take a catastrophic development. Prominent Israelian intelectuals have for a long time warned the world society about this exact potential danger.

End of translation.


Quoting Munk again:
"This is the kind of opinion that reveals naivete. Which world leader in the last 2000 years has done the most for the most people? Britain? Spain? France? Where do you think markets come from, or indoor plumbing? Who funded disease erradication the last 50 years?"

World leaders play politics like a game of chess. You and I are the tin soldiers of our own leaders, to be sacrificed at will. Part of winning is done by correctly manipulating people into having a certain emotional bias.

The naive one was…?


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Not2sharp

Quote:
"I believe the US will disappoint France and behaive much more magnanimously."


The situation today for USA is not comparable with France’s back then. France was actually invaded and lost hundreds of thousands of lives plus that they in earlier wars had been humiliated by the Germans and wanted payback. It is not strange that they felt like a financial revenge, but not very fair considering Germany's also very great losses. USA is not in a comparable situation to that of France back then. Similair reparations are certainly not a risk.


Quote:
"Oil plays a part in this; but it is more like a headache, and we need to worry more about treating the brain tumor that is causing it. There are far bigger geo-political issues at play then terrorist and oil. I suspect that 10 years from now when someone finally manages to release a decent book on this period we will see that it was all really part of a bigger conflict between China and the West, with Iraq potrayed as little more than a Pawn and the terrorist as just expedient disposable tools."

You write some good stuff and this was particularly good. China is coming to this world for sure. China is going everywhere that it can to secure its energy future, starting with Indonesia, and very much now into the Middle East, because oil is the lifeblood of the economy. They have got to find a way to get secure access, long-term, to drive economic growth. Opening up Iraq’s market to the Western companies to compete for might be just a clever thing to do for a Western world leader. Let us wait for a decade and see.


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Frederico

First I must say very good postings.

Quoting:
"Anyways, Im tired of the argument European voices are outside the US, and therefor they can properly look at 2nd (well I guess thats a misnomer now) and 3rd world issues with a un-biased eye."

I don’t know about that. All I ever learned from our PCs was how it was all my fault.

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Firkin

"They don't need to."

One way of repressing is to not fund any science done on a subject. There are billions and billions being thrown into scientific research for oil production. How many for alternative sources of energy? In my country virtually nothing, even though were just recently the 3. largest exporter of oil in the world, which should have given us a moral obligation to do such research on alternative energy.
 
Mine too- I'll have to go back and read Eik.
Eikerang- know this!! I disagree with you, but am very glad you are here and I can talk with you. I hope the future is safe for all the 'little munks' as well, friend.




munk
 
Great Munk. It will be a fine talk.

As you probably have understood by now I am a complete cynic when it comes to interpreting political events and world history.

In order to try to understand what is going on I imagene the world leaders as having a strong tendency of psychopathy. That helps me on the way to see things.
 
I think if you saw the consumer base as sociopathic we would see more eye to eye...but I like consumer base! yeah- me and you buying candybars!!




munk
 
You just can't make up stuff like this...

Peaceniks fall out on human shield mission
The Sunday Times ^ | February 9, 2003 | Jane Mulkerrins


A PLAN by a group of peace campaigners to travel by bus to Baghdad to offer themselves to Saddam Hussein as human shields has been threatened with collapse by the personal clashes, logistical chaos and the loss of their leader.

One of the group’s three double-deckers has been abandoned in Italy with engine trouble and plans to travel through the Balkans were aborted as “too dangerous”. The head of the delegation, a former American marine, has been deported from Turkey for trying to enter the country with a “world citizen” passport after renouncing his United States citizenship.

The second of the two remaining red buses and an accompanying white taxi limped into Istanbul yesterday after being stranded in blizzards for two days. Several members of the peace convoy spent the day scrabbling around the Turkish city trying to hire four-wheel-drive vehicles or trying to book plane or train tickets to take them on to Baghdad. “There comes a time at which we have to leave the buses behind and move on without them,” said John Rose, an American who spent seven years with the Zapatista rebels in Mexico and has joined the trip in Turkey. “We just have to cut them loose now.”

Yesterday the dwindling group of 40 “peaceniks” was joined by 35 Turkish volunteers. There was also a shock. Organisers told the human shields they must each stump up $1,000 before they could enter Iraq. In addition, they would have to leave their mobile phones at the border, cutting off all communication with home, and be subjected to tests for HIV.

Helen Williams, 34, from Newport, south Wales, said funds were already running dangerously low. “Some people are getting down to their last few pounds,” she said. “The sooner we get to Baghdad where we can live more cheaply, the better.”

Rajia Dhanjani, a 22-year-old hairdresser from south London, said: “I thought it would be hard when we got to Baghdad, but I had no idea the trip would be this awful. I thought the journey would be one long party.”

Last night the group held a crisis meeting at a cafe in Istanbul. The Turks showed themselves determined to impose more efficient organisation on the ramshackle British expedition which arrived almost a week behind schedule.

After three hours of debate, the Turks won through. The convoy will now remain in Istanbul until tomorrow.

“We have to show we are together on this,” said Tolga Temuge, 36, a Turk who quit his job as campaigns director of Greenpeace in the Mediterranean to travel to Iraq.

The British contingent were keen to strike out today for Ankara before heading to Syria en route for Jordan and then Iraq. However, the Turks, shocked at the shambolic antics of the British, pushed for a delayed departure to allow time to regroup.

The two red London buses, the white taxi and two minibuses will now head for Ankara tomorrow. Volunteers are trying to switch their minds from the disarray of recent days to the situations they will face on arrival in Baghdad, assuming they get there.

One of the buses, however, may have to find a new driver soon. Its driver, who identifies himself only as Gary, said the Syrian authorities had told him he would not be permitted to drive his vehicle through their country because his mother works for the Ministry of Defence in Britain.

If Gary’s mother’s job has made his journey difficult, his place in the convoy has been of little help to his mother. “My mum has had a really hard time because of me,” he said. “She works in intelligence and she has been blackballed by the ministry ever since they found out I was on the trip.”

Many participants are concerned they will run short of money and are unhappy at the prospect of a compulsory HIV test on the Iraqi border, about which they were not warned until this weekend.

“We are buying our own hypodermic syringes”, said Williams. “They could just as easily give you HIV with the needles in Iraq.”

Joe Letts, 52, a father of four from Dorset who was a cameraman during the last Gulf war and owner of the two red buses, was relieved finally to arrive in Istanbul last night but is determined his buses will make it to Baghdad.

“It was pretty hairy getting here and there were times I thought we wouldn’t make it. But the buses are running well now and we are definitely taking them all the way,” he said.

The rows started almost as soon as the group left London a fortnight ago, with arguments over which routes to take. A black bus owned by Ken Nichols O’Keefe, 33, a tattooed former US marine and Gulf war veteran, and full of young firebrands, drove through Germany — with a sightseeing stop-off at Dachau concentration camp — to Italy even though the vehicle was too tall for the Alpine tunnels and scraped its roof.

Another bus, one of the lumbering Routemasters owned by Letts, drove through France and waited for Nichols O’Keefe in Milan.

The tension was compounded when a group of Italian peace campaigners in designer clothes joined the Britons, many of whom are elderly activists wearing hippie-style clothes and cooking lentils aboard the buses. Instead of heading towards their objective, the peaceniks took a detour to Rome last Sunday for sightseeing.

Most of them eventually caught a ferry to Greece, but Nichols O’Keefe and a handful of others stayed behind with a stricken bus before flying to join the others. He was promptly detained in Istanbul and deported back to Italy.

He has angered other peaceniks by planning to meet Saddam on his arrival in Baghdad. At least five have returned home rather than deal with him and a Welsh couple have set out to reach the Iraqi capital on their own.

“People have got so fed up with him that they have dropped out,” said Letts. Nichols O’Keefe was dubbed “the messiah” and “Gandhi” by his less-than-enthusiastic fellow travellers. He had warned them any breakdowns “would be the work of the CIA”.

He is being held this weekend in an Italian jail and is facing deportation to the United States. His mother, Pat, who is continuing on the journey to Baghdad, said: “That would be the very worst outcome. It would be a disaster for him.”

Temuge, who is emerging as one of the new leaders of the group, said he thought the deportation was a political action on the part of the Turkish government. But volunteers were yesterday becoming increasingly disillusioned about the trip, its organisers and their chances of ever reaching Iraq.

Grace Trevett, a mother of four from Stroud, Gloucestershire, said: “There has been no democracy at all. Ken just tells people they have to like it or they can f*** off. If they can’t respect us, how are they going to respect the Iraqi people?” A soothing role has been played by Godfrey Meynell, 68, an Old Etonian former high sheriff of Derbyshire and son of a Victoria Cross holder. His wise air is helped by the copy of Plato and His Dialogues by G Lowes Dickinson which he reads in the bus. He admitted, however: “There is a real difference in spirit between the groups.

“Of course we are aware we may get used as propaganda or worse by Saddam Hussein. That is why we are very clear about our mission now so that it can’t be misinterpreted.”

The group will hope their experience is more fortunate than Meynell’s previous experience of a similar peace convoy. In 1956, he drove a van packed with corned beef to aid Hungarians rising up against the Soviets. The vehicle was stopped at the border.
 
Thier intensions may be pure though misguided I can now almost feel sorry for them. Maybe they will realise it was a bad idea and give up.
 
I hope somebody is filming all of this "peacenik" trip. Can you imagine a documentary on the trials and tribulations of this group. It sounds like the producers of "This is Spinal Tap" are organising the trip. All in order to get to Baghdad, just in time to be blown up. Amazing.
 
To me, it's simply a sign from the powers that be that they should stop, reconsider, and turn back.
 
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