Hummers are for pu**ys!

averageguy

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Fu** the Hummer. For $100,000.00 plus $2000.00 west coast or $2500.00 east coast shipping, you can have this bad boy.

Chinese Armor being sold on ebay.

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Actually had our US military had these instead of HumVees in Iraq our death toll would be much much lower. TO send GI's into a armed insurgency equipped with thin skinned vehicles is just criminal.

I am not questioning the war only the way the Idiot generals chose how to fight it and The idiot politicians who choose not to fund or equip our army

Britain in NI, the Rhodesian's, the South African's, the Israeli's, the Russians and Soviets before them all learned the hard way the putting soldier's in tin cans and sending them into armed conflict only results in dead bodies.

Mine resistant, bullet resistant vehicles for patrol and supression have been in active use for near fifty years. However, our military leaders chose to think that no one would resist us and we would be welcomed with open arms. WE have thousands of armored cars perfect for this use sitting on american and foreign soil right now, as protection vehicles for nuclear power plants, airforce bases, etc where the risk is very very low, but where we need it, we send in lightly modified civilian vehicles.

Look at the british, south african and israeli vehicles meant for border patrol and it is possible to see where borrowing a little something from our allies might very well have saved 2000 american lives.
 
I hadn't considered that. These are probably even less expensive than the refitted military Humvees being used in Iraq. Although to be fair, even this vehicle probably doesn't offer significant protection from RPG and certain IED.

However, a similar vehicle combined with the Israeli "Trophy" system would.

There is absolutely no excuse for the Army not to incorporate the system immediately.

The system, detailed here; http://www.defense-update.com/products/t/trophy.htm was profiled on cable news a few weeks ago. See this story; http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14686871/

After seeing this I assumed there would be a tremendous outcry for the Army to incorporate this system ASAP and hearings to determine why they hadn't done so already.
 
Notice the shape of this vehicle and the resemblence to British, SA and Israeli vehicles, the Octagonal shape reduces the surface area and increases the likely hood that blast and fragments are going to hit at an angle reducing the amount of force that can be applied to piercing the vehicle. I have seen videos of similar shapes being hit with horrendous blasts and coming out reasonably intact. I believe one was a rhodesian scout vehicle getting hit with a russian AT mine, something like 40 pounds of HE directly under a tire, the corner was severly damaged, but the personnel within were fine.

Just hanging the wire curtains around the vehicle would drastically reduce the effect of RPG fire.

IED protection is not simply a matter of armor, canting armor adds depth of field to it and also reduces the ability of the blast to penetrate.

Shorter angled panels are stronger too in that with bends at angles, the material is stiffened against structural failure as well, with less exposed to the direction of the blast, less is needed to resist it.
 
Our military purchasing system is based on providing jobs for the districts of influential legislators, not sourcing the most effective equipment.

Why do we give the Israelis, for example, billions of dollars? So they can buy congressionally mandated US military products -- those billions are not aid to Israel, they are aid to US manufacturers.

Why do other countries buy Israeli military equipment? I understand Israel is India's second-largest supplier ... a nation of under 10,000,000 people supplies arms to a nation of over 1,000,000,000.
 
most UK combat deaths in Iraq and afghanistan have been caused by IED, on soldiers driving in soft skinned land-rovers that were designed for use in northern-island.

the government has ordered some more heavily armoured replacements, but when the troops will receive the is anybody's guess.

so it`s not just the US that has dropped the ball on this one.

regards.

John.
 
Buffles and the Ratels were very good fast APVs. The Buffels were popular with the SAP whilst the Ratel was a fast APV that had a low casualty rate when it came to mines. These were both good against high velocity rifles but were too thin skinned against direct hits from RPGs where the armour angles were fairly good at deflecting, I believe that a thin outer layer was placed on the vunerable sections to detonate the RPG before it hit the main armour. The Ratel was long range and carried the water and supplies for those on board.

The Ratel had a 20mm cannon on one model and a light 90mm on the larger one. Cuban/Angolan Tanks T72s(?) had a rough time against the armoured cars in the very frequent woodlands that could move fast, get in close.

In the open the Ratel was in severe disadvantage.

In Rhodesia they placed a second level of thin plate on the outside of the Elands and that allowed for the RPG to detonate and the heat be dissipated against the original hardened skin. They Created the Rhino of thick angled steel plate on a 10t or 7t truck chassis.

Old days, I remember travelling from School in convoy with a Rhino holding RAR singing the 'Sweet Banana' song.
 
After seeing pics of some of the improvised armor they've had to apply to hummers in Iraq (my father-in-law spent a year deployed with the guard last year), this thing probably would be much more useful/efficient. I can't imagine a hummer with 3/4" stell plate welded all around wherever they can would be any cheaper, in the end.
 
Tim-Gabz. I worked for a while with a guy who was from Rhodesia and who's father was in the Scouts, he tells some pretty harrowing tales about the troubles and that every teacher had a FAL in the corner and a p35 on the belt. even some of the ladies kept grenades in their purses....
 
Tim-Gabz. I worked for a while with a guy who was from Rhodesia and who's father was in the Scouts, he tells some pretty harrowing tales about the troubles and that every teacher had a FAL in the corner and a p35 on the belt. even some of the ladies kept grenades in their purses....

I don't remember the grenades in the purses, where would they keep their lipstic? The farmer's wives used to have them in their handbags and an Uzzi on the pickup seat. The shops used to have metal detectors and they used to sing all the time. Dad used to have a .32 CZ on him in town, a Beretta auto shot gun for between towns, Mum an .22Astra for town and a .38spl for the car. I had a .22 magnum (savage) to go fishing with. My school had an APV and FNs or G3s. For kids this was a magic time. in 78 a school mate and I dissappeard from the group to go fishing and while out the farmer's house was revved. I really got it in the neck from mum when I got home. I didn't get out much after that.
 
Digging through my old folders I came up with these:

The Batmobile/Kudu and the Cougar.



 
However, a similar vehicle combined with the Israeli "Trophy" system would.

There is absolutely no excuse for the Army not to incorporate the system immediately.

You obviously must be in the know about such matters. Which defense contractor or branch of service do you work for?

If you think politicians running a war is bad, letting biased news reporting determine what the Army's gets to use is worse. Let the professionals decide what to take into battle, not the news media. Soldiers know best what Soldiers need to fight the battle, survive the battle, and win the battle.
 
STRIKER for everybody!!!!!


Somehow I doubt a striker will hold up to an EFP, which is the main source of IED’s in Iraq right now.


Also, will someone please tell me which war the United States has ever gone into prepared. If I remember right the Hummer was designed as basically a chase vehicle for the M1. I doubt the original purpose or design had anything to do with urban ops or being IED restraint. It takes time to get things rolling, which is probably why there is a huge push right now to get the Stryker brigades up and running.


To say that to go into Iraq with just hummers is criminal is pretty short sighted. The enemy found a weakness they could exploit and we adapt, that’s how it goes. I guess D-Day was criminal also, I mean all those guys on the beaches exposed to mortars, machine guns and rifle fire, with out body armor or much tank support. I sure someone is alive who was involved in that decision that we can fry on the internet
 
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