Hypothetical Post-Apocalypse: best strategies for survival?

HikingMano

HikingMano

Joined
Sep 2, 2008
Messages
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Hey Survival forum dudes :D

I've always been interested in post-apocalyptic movies and books. The stories always made me think, "damn, how would i survive in this day and age if something like that happened?" Anyway, a little while ago I started a thread in the general knife forum asking people about what weapons/tools they'd want by their side if the world ended by whatever means (just a little fun thread, http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=582175); it evolved into a discussion about how to survive in a post-catastrophe world and the strategies one could or should employ. So i figured I'd post a thread here, seeing as it's a more fitting subforum to serious discussion on survival.

My personal belief is that it's better to be "on the move" in initially dealing with any world-ending catastrophe, but that's is just from me thinking about it. The other basic school of thought is the "set up a defensive position and ride it out" one. I respect either position and can see the merits of each (I actually think the strategy natrually evolves from nomadic to stable communal), I just find myself uncomfortable with putting all my eggs in one basket until the world reached some level of sanity again. But I'm open to learning from the knowledge and experience of others :)

I am leaving the conditions of this end-of-the-world event open since I believe strategies differ based on what exactly one is facing. Please feel free to specify conditions, or perhaps we should provide a frame for the discussion at the outset (i don't know).

So (sorry for the long winded intro), what are your opinions on survival strategies in a apocalyptic modern world?


Notes:
*Mods, I am hoping this thread does not come across as trolling, but please let me know if it construed as such (reading Sharp Phils field guide on trolling makes me paranoid :)) and delete it.
*posters, I just want opinions. I want to hear what others think about it so we can all learn a new thing or two from each other. :)
*Military experience, or formal knowledge of strategy or anything at all, is always appreciated, but please refrain from lording it over others. I'm sure none of us like to sort through the flame skirmishes.
*feel free to suggest any literature on the subject! I don't remember much history and I've never read anything on strategy, so I'd be stoked with any reading suggestions :D


Have fun and thanks!
 
rksoon said:
My personal belief is that it's better to be "on the move" in initially dealing with any world-ending catastrophe, but that's is just from me thinking about it.
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Although I will be the first to admit that I am by no means prepared for a true EOTWAWKI event, I would have to say I would probably prefer to have a "survival retreat" that try to survive "on the move".

My opinion (FWIW) is probably based reading the excellent books and articles by the late survival writer Mel Tappan (I've still got a dog-eared copy of his classic Survival Guns on my bookshelf) who promoted the idea of a self-sufficent retreat as the best way to deal with a long-term, civilization ending, event.

Now, if you are talking about a relativly short term civil unrest and loss of normal civil services (water, power, police, etc.) lasting from a few weeks to a few months, then taking off for the backwoods with a well prepared "bug out kit" could make some sense. That way you can maintain a relativly "main-stream" lifestyle, even in an urban area, and don't have to give up the pleasant little modern amenities we take for granted.

The idea of potentially living the rest of my life like some modern hunter-gatherer has little appeal, though. That's where the idea of a self-sufficent homestead as proposed by Tapin and others, sufficiently remote from major urban sites, disaster areas, or military targets starts to make a lot of sense.

The problem with the second option is that it takes a total lifestye change to make it work, on the chance that world civilization is going to collapes for years or even decades. Give up your job, your modern life, uproot your family and move out to the boonies, and set up in essence a self-sustaining, self-sufficent farm stocked with years worth of the sorts of supplies that you can't grow or build yourself. Most of us just don't have the time, the money and the just plain determination to take that leap for something that might never happen.

I actually think the strategy natrually evolves from nomadic to stable communal
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In a true catastropic collaps of society, I would hate to count on being able to join or create a stable, self-sustaining community under life-or-death situations. In such conditions, "lifeboat" survival mentality could easily set in, where those who are prepared enough or foresighted enough, or just lucky enough, to be in a stable, self-sufficent sitation are quite likely not going to eager to take in more people, who will consume their limited resourses without bringing any worthwhile contributions to the situation.

Interesting topic, in any case.
 
I'm currently reading Dies the Fire, by SM Stirling. It supposes a modern world in which, inexplicably, all technology stops working. No more electricity, internal combustion engines, and no more working gunpowder. The characters find some interesting solutions to the new way of living.
 
It is never better to be on the move than staying put unless something forces you to move. Such forces are lack of food/water; hostile environment (desert or tropical storm for example); hostile nature (plague of locusts or simply the plague); or hostile humans.

Moving to another area means giving up knowing where to find food/water and what the hazards are in the local area. If it is EotheWawki; moving around just exposes you to the hostilities of the unknown far more often. It would be similar to moving to a new town every day. You won't know where the best restaurants are; where the bad parts of town are; who are the honest mechanics etc. the stakes are a lot higher though.
 
These are always topics that are interesting but people secretly pull out their tin foil hat and look over their shoulder:D

I really doubt that a major catastrophe, such as an asteroid hitting, nuclear destruction, chain of volcanoes erupting, solar flare melting all the polar ice caps...all plausible but unlikely. Our biggest threats are localized catastrophes, which we're already seen plenty of...Katrina (now Ike), Tsunami, massive earth quakes, wild fires, etc. Our biggest threats are man-made disasters, such as the pending energy crisis, world market crash/massive recession leading to riots and even invasions (i.e. Georgia)...all of the above would create a very hostile environment where "survival" would be a real issue.

Under most conditions, staying put and keep a low profile would be the best option. For those that live in more urban areas, this creates a whole different set of issues, but it's still better than leaving a known, defendable and safe location vice becoming a refugee and potential target for the less desirables. Even with that advice, you still need to be prepared to depart rapidly in cases such as a hurricane, city or forest fire or flood; those will be more hazardous and life threatening if you stayed put.

Just like we address the essentials for our outdoors adventures, you need to have the same level of planning for the home. Primitive skills will always be an asset as just about any catastrophe at any level you could imagine will cause some sort of breakdown in communications, fuel and food distribution, water and sewer services and of course, electricity.

Individuals won't last long as lone-wolves. The only way to survive a major disaster long-term is to form a community plan...unless you're a doctor, dentist, farmer, electrician, hunter, plumber, engineer, defense planner and all-around "survivalist"...you won't last long term on your own.

Be prepared, be realistic, be a team player.

Just some thoughts after a little java:D


ROCK6
 
I'll hook up with Tank Girl and ride it out in style.
tank_girl.jpg
 
I live in a rural area surrounded by homes owned by my direct family.We're used to going without power due to our slack local power company and harsh winter storms.
We all have gardens and wild game is plentiful and natural sources of fresh water are available.We already burn wood for heat and have cooked on our wood stove.
I feel that we're already reasonably setup for long term disaster survival.
 
Personally, I would put all of my energy into protecting the Oil Refinery from Lord Humungous and his gang of marauders.
 
I don't think heading to the boondocks would be to smooth, around here them folks have been getting by along time anyway and I don't think they would care for a herd of slickers that think they know it all, they been poaching along time and probally shoot better then you/me/we do. Pat
 
Yeah, i agree with keeping to your known area is key to survival; knowing where your resources are and how to best access them under any circumstance is important. I guess I just always figured that eventually something accidental or intentional (like the things zenheretic mentioned) might force you from your position once you started getting too comfortable. I guess it's a better idea to stay put and THEN bug out if you need too. It just seems like a big gamble to me to have all my eggs in one basket, but the logic of defending your home turf is indeed sound. Even if I ended up mobile for some reason, i wouldn't want to venture far; i'd try to travel between known areas.

I've been thinking about this recently because I live in california and you know how our terra firma just loves to boogy every once in a while. Everyone heard stories about the complete disintegration of law and order after katrina and how women were being raped and people getting killed (who knows how much truth these storied held; but its the possibility that they could occur that strikes home), and it's a scary thing to consider just how easily you could find yourself completely on your own with your loved ones. Sure, there are lots of good people out there, but there many bad ones as well who would just love to take advantage of the breakdown of lawful society. Anyway, I don't think an earthquake could create that kind of chaos we're talking about here, but it's one of those "hope for the best but be prepared for the worst" things for me.

I'm going to see if i can get a copy of survival guns and dies the fire and read up a little, thanks mdauben and john g for the suggestions :)
 
M el Tappan was one of if not the 1st survival guru and a smart and educated man and he beleived that the big deal was going to be economic colapse (he was a fairly respected economist), he advocated the survival retreat and did extencive reshearch into all aspects for preparation and equipment. Tapans advice on survival is well worth reading.
 
I live in an urban area that has a large deer population and resident goose/duck population and there are plenty of stores to loot and I would assum abandoned homes as well. Most of the people would be helpless and starvation related violence is only a few skipped meals away....so that would be a major problem. I would have to move/hunt/loot in the early morning hours and lay low the rest of the day. But, the benefit is that most of these people would not have guns...and I do. In the woods, game is more spread out, I would have nowhere to store food/water, and the people there would most likely be armed and not willing to share. If I had a well stocked cabin and could get to it...that would be nice, but I think an attack by well armed people would still be a real threat. If the SHTF I am staying put.
 
I'd be torn between staying near a large urban area where there is more to loot and moving toward a very rural area with which I'm familiar, where I know the people and the terrain, and where I would have some places to "hole up." Tough call. Luckily, I'd have this for zombie duty.

AK47s.jpg
 
Guyon said:
I'd be torn between staying near a large urban area where there is more to loot and moving toward a very rural area with which I'm familiar, where I know the people and the terrain, and where I would have some places to "hole up." Tough call. Luckily, I'd have this for zombie duty.
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Great set up Guyon:thumbup: It is a tough call, but regardless of your location, if you have a any type of home, apartment, condo, it's much safer to stay put unless you're being forced out by a fire, flood or other calamity beyond your control. For those in more urban or suburban locations, if you don't have a place to go to (cabin in the woods) or you don't get out early enough...you will become a refugee and your chances of surviving drop significantly. I have a good friend in the Seattle area and he's putting a lot of work into a cabin he has in the mountains. We've discussed this, but if he can't get out before the mad frenzy of traffic, he would be much better off hunkering down for a week or two until the madness subsides or the masses decreases in size. If you have to go by foot, you really need to calculate distance and time, add in obstacles (major highways, rivers, bridges, passes or any other choke point) and don't forget calculating the amount of food and water you'll need. Hunting will most likely be very sparse after the first few weeks and you'll have to hunker down to do any effective trapping. I've seen a few posts and comments from those that lived through the Bosnia crisis and it's pretty harsh to imagine. If you can't get a sizeable community defense plan organized, it's best you keep as small a profile for as long as possible.

ROCK6
 
My parents lived through the Great Depression, which in a very real sense portrayed somewhat of a post-Apocalyptic society, with a breakdown in socal structure, massive job loss, forced migration, and widespread poverty. It's about as close as this country has come to societal melt-down as you'll find.

The folks who did the best, without predating others, were rural folks whose land was not effected by the erosion of crop land during the Dirty Thirties. They were already established, they knew how to take care of themselves, they already had tight knit communities, and they could feed themselves and could barter for what they didn't have.

The bottom line is, if you aren't already prepared, you will be so far behind the powercurve that you likely won't be able to catch up.

Just a note on the "Dies the Fire" series... it's a really fun read, I've read all of them except the most recent one, and I'm waiting for my wife to finish it.

Those books are generally unrealistic in that the catalyst for the loss of civilization came from outside and changed all the rules of physics, throwing human technology back to medieval levels.

Andy
 
tonym said:
I would head up to Marty Simon's place in way upstate NY:D
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I live up here next door to him, sorry to say Dude, we don't want you :D What do you think you're going to live on, squirrels and pine bark? Raid vacation camps? We already have those staked out.

I recently watched a very old but good movie called Panic In Year Zero (1962) directed by and starring Ray Milland. It's black and white and he's an old actor probably unfamiliar to most people here. But he had a very good take on what would happen in a SHTF situation. Basic goods will become of prime value, and people will kill each other to survive.
 
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