Hypothetical survival situation: Lost in the woods, sprained ankle, one altoids kit.

[gytheran]

Metric phobic? How about being born, raised, and living in a country that doesn't use the metric system for much of anything, especially for temperature? I know it's a 'tongue in cheek' comment(I'm assuming...), but lets pretend for a sec that not everyone was raised learning the same measurement system. Kg can kiss my %^&... lol

 

[sykes3170]

I didn't thoroughly read all of the posts so I'm not sure if it was mentioned or not. I would think that you could fit some painkillers in the kit. Not necessarily Opiate type, but, at least a few heavy duty ibuprofen. They just might be enough to get you out.

 

[Will Power]

Lot of good advice here in this interesting thread (apart from puerile bickering over metric.....)

My tin does contain painkillers, a survival whistle (it's deafening!) My small day pack also has a plastic cannister with a nice roll of birch bark, the best fire starter I know of, it's really difficult to start a fire in woodland that's soaked with autumn rains unless you have some decent tinder and a knife capable of getting you dry firesticks...Moving about in night-time is an no no unless you have illumination and a compass, and even then I'd say stay put until light.

Some people talk about hobbling out, it may be possible but a severe sprain on an old injury would make it agonizing. I broke my knee a couple of years back and hobbling with stick just 2kms (little over a mile..) on city streets was horribly painful and staggeringly slow. On rough or boggy terrain no thanks, movement can make the injury swell up really seriously. I'd just try to lay down in the driest area I can find in the remaining light, see if a fire is possible and keep whistling. Food is not needed, most of us are overburdened by the need to eat and in Western lifestyle, most of us carry a load of surplus weight anyway (perhaps the reason you sprained your ankle in the first place) If there's a carpark in the area, it must mean that other walkers will appear in daylight, lets just hope an autumn downpour doesn't keep them all indoors...whistling will attract attention or dogs (preferably not feral ones )

The shock of a sudden injury should not be underestimated either, that's why a 5 min period of trying to be as calm as possible is vital.

'Thanks, Will

 

[gytheran]

I talk about hobbling out because you ONLY have two options...

1) rescue yourself
2) wait for someone to rescue you

I'm the type that will not wait the couple days for people to realize something is wrong before making an attempt out of the situation. I've been fortunate to have never badly sprained my ankle, but I have sprained it and am pretty confident on my ability to limp along... not to mention... if you're in a wooded area, how hard would it be to find/make a make-shift cane to help? A simple walking stick would help...

 

[Hammer67]

Some people talk about hobbling out, it may be possible but a severe sprain on an old injury would make it agonizing. I broke my knee a couple of years back and hobbling with stick just 2kms (little over a mile..) on city streets was horribly painful and staggeringly slow. On rough or boggy terrain no thanks, movement can make the injury swell up really seriously...

Most people would definitely be able to move on a sprain that isn't severe, especially if they rest, elevate and take some ibupro from time to time as they move. And if they can get to the stream and cool it off to reduce swelling, all the better. I've helped people do exactly that on numerous occasions. A pre-existing, compounding injury wasn't part of the scenario.

But again, there are some factors that would need to be known in order to make smart decisions in this scenario - distance from the vehicle being a big one.

 

[dartanyon]

Over here in Australia we've had tourists go missing in the Blue Mountains (even Aussie's) and die. It happens in the outback also just like any country. They die of exposure or fall off a cliff or worst case is an animal gets them. I guess there's the ones that want to die also. There are searchers all over the area pretty quick looking for people missing, as long as someone knows they're out there.
The basics are protect yourself from exposure (hypothermia) stay hydrated and signal for help. I'm guessing we all would stop blood leaking out so that's a given. Wait for help or hobble out? That'd be situational hypothetical lol. There's a movie called "Into The Void" where the guy breaks a long way out into small bits and makes it.
As for the kit ... I recon it depends on the hypothetical area. One common theme with kits I've found is that part of them is dependent on what part of the world you're in. The kit varies with the location you're heading so I guess the small kit has the fire, signal and pain killers ... and a blade

 

[Thomas Linton]

. . .As for the kit ... I recon it depends on the hypothetical area. One common theme with kits I've found is that part of them is dependent on what part of the world you're in. The kit varies with the location you're heading so I guess the small kit has the fire, signal and pain killers ... and a blade

:thumbup: Being one basic problem with the commercial one-size-fits-all kits.

(No problem with Purell, willgov. Good fire-starter. )

 

[Will Power]

Most people would definitely be able to move on a sprain that isn't severe, especially if they rest, elevate and take some ibupro from time to time as they move. And if they can get to the stream and cool it off to reduce swelling, all the better. I've helped people do exactly that on numerous occasions. A pre-existing, compounding injury wasn't part of the scenario.

But again, there are some factors that would need to be known in order to make smart decisions in this scenario - distance from the vehicle being a big one.

True enough, I was hoping in this case that the vehicle would be in a clearing or somewhere where others' park, so you might be able to signal to them.

I think the OP alluded to the ankle being rolled and it being on an old football injury? In which case it could be really painful to try moving without help. In most cases, nothing too bad would happen to you provided the weather isn't too extreme. I wonder what age the oldest person is to have survived for long in the wilderness, alone?

 

[Thomas Linton]

True enough, I was hoping in this case that the vehicle would be in a clearing or somewhere where others' park, so you might be able to signal to them.

I think the OP alluded to the ankle being rolled and it being on an old football injury? In which case it could be really painful to try moving without help. In most cases, nothing too bad would happen to you provided the weather isn't too extreme. I wonder what age the oldest person is to have survived for long in the wilderness, alone?

Hunter found alive after 18 days

He was feared dead, but after 18 days alone in the Mendocino National Forest, a San Francisco resident has been found alive.

Avid hunter Gene Penaflor, 72, was located Saturday morning -- approximately 3.25 miles from where he went missing -- by a group of hunters at the bottom of a canyon. The Mendocino County Sheriff's Office received a call from a member of the group around 8:30 a.m., and sent Search and Rescue units to the remote location where Penaflor was found.

Due to the rough terrain, it took several hours for the rescue units to reach the location, but in the mean time, the group of hunters assembled a makeshift stretcher from their coats and poles. They carried Penaflor up a steep hillside, toward the rescue teams, and eventually to an area where a helicopter could land to extract him.

He was taken to Ukiah Valley Medical Center for medical treatment and released in good health.

Penaflor's son, Jeremy, 31, was waiting for a BART train at the Lake Merritt station in Oakland on Saturday when he received a call from an official involved in the search.
"I asked him 'What's going on?'" Jeremy said. "Then he told me 'hunters found your dad.' I was just in shock. I was shaking."
There were times, Jeremy said, that he feared that call would never come, but he never gave up hope.

"He knew that terrain like the back of his hand," Jeremy said. "He's been hunting for 25-30 years. He reads survival magazines.

"There was times as the weeks went on where it was difficult, but I wouldn't say I lost hope. It was dwindling, he's 72 years old, but I knew knowing what he knew not to give up."
Just a day after his father was found, Jeremy was even able to make light of the situation. "He's fine," he said. "It's like he went on vacation and came back with a beard."

Members of the family gathered at Penaflor's Bernal Heights home Sunday, where he's resided for 30 years, to watch the 49ers game.

During the first day of his hunt, Penaflor fell, hit his head and was knocked unconscious. When he woke up, he was disoriented and a thick bank of fog had made its way to where he was. After some time spent walking around the area, Penaflor was unable to determine which direction to travel and stopped moving.

He started a fire to keep warm and on days it snowed or rained, he took shelter under a log. He remained in one spot due to a nearby water source.

Temperatures fluctuated between 25 and 70 degrees during the nearly three weeks Penaflor spent alone. He fed himself by killing and eating squirrels in the area.

Penaflor didn't show up at a planned meeting spot with his hunting partner for lunch on Sept. 24 and was reported missing after a mandated 24-hour period. Various agencies assisted in search efforts that went on until Sept. 29, when they were suspended due to lack of clues and a significant incoming storm.

"We really want to say thank you to everybody who helped," Jeremy Penaflor said. "Hopefully he can serve as an inspiration to others."

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

[idaho]

I am in Europe.
Unless it is high mountain (or Norway), im no futher than one day from dense populated locations.
I would just swallow my ibupofen, build some isolation from the ground and from the wind for the night, and wait till morning.
I could start a fire for fun and comfort but not really needed with that temperature.
And than I would find a strong cane and slowly walk to safety.

 

[gadgetgeek]

Thomas, that reminds me of a story my dad told me. He and his father had been out deer hunting not all that far from home. They stayed to the end of legal light, and started heading back. When they doubled over fresh tracks, my dad said he knew they were in trouble. They were very sure of where they where, but the path they had been following had turned out to not be the path, and with no flashlights, the little bits of moonlight weren't enough to navigate by, and they could not get enough clear sky for stars. Both of them have a very good sense of direction, so for both of them to be lost, kinda freaked my dad out. As an aside, my grandfather was stone deaf, so my Dad either had to stay with him, or loose him. My dad grabbed a handful of spruce twigs, and got a fire going as soon as he had caught up to my grandpa. He told me that for the rest of the night, my grandpa would be convinced that one way or another was the way home, but wouldn't leave the ring of light from the fire. When the sun broke, it turned out that they were maybe a couple hundred yard from the house, but without knowing the direction, they could have walked all night. Proves that knowing when to sit tight can save your life. Although I'm surprised that with a fire going that gentleman wasn't found sooner, I guess they didn't have much for resources. Maybe if the family had told the cops he was out tending his grow plot they could have had DEA track him with the FLIR? but I jest.

 

[upnorth]

Well, water freezes at 0, boils at 100, so it's about 1/5th boiling water warm.
Almost too convenient, that old metric system, isn't it?

I was a kid when we changed over to the Metric system. So I have to mentally compare the two back and forth in order to understand an items weight. Well buddy, I am likely one of the weaker outdoor skill knowledge based individuals here. All I have in one of those dinky little tins is fire related. Wrapped PJCB's, fatwood and a small Bic lighter. I never going anywhere without my keys and I have a Light My Fire rod on there 24-7. I also never go on any trip more than an hour or two without water and or access to it. I feel that I have enough wood processing, shelter, fire knowledge now to have a reasonably comfortable night out in the cold. All I can do is look back at my own experiences and near misses, which is the main impetus for gaining additional outdoor survival skills today. Well at least a focus on some basics. When I got myself a bit messed up in the north I had told the warden roughly were I was going to be. I had water and its container. There was locally abundant ground water and a major river near by. In my pockets I had a lighter, folding knife and a tin of sardines. I also had a ball compass pinned to my jacket chest pocket. What I didn't count on and surprised me were the slightly depressive thoughts going through me when I realized that I may be out there for the night. What comforted me in then was the knowledge that I at least had a few tools on me which would make a BIG difference if I had to spend the night. So I did not anticipate the mental\emotional aspect of realizing that I may be spending an unplanned night out in a semi bog with intense mosquito clouds, Moose, Elk, black bears and coyotes frolicking around me in the dark. But as I said, having a little bit of gear and knowledge stopped shear panic, but not anxiety. I am now admittedly anal about carrying a ferro rod and a knife if even just out in the local country side. Hypothermia can get me anywhere..... I suppose that If I had to accidentally stay in an isolated spot for more than 24 hours I would likely start to run into water and food issues. Right or wrong, I never saw those tiny tins as good for holding much. I might put a small iodine squeeze bottle in it for water purification, but likely not as it is in other kits. My tin is in the car glove box and extended walks see me packing anything from a belly bag to full pack size depending on location. I err on the side of caution these days.

 

[Codger_64]

I grew up in the country and never gave a lot of thought to problems associated with getting lost/stranded overnight, other than the worry it caused parents or the punishment you might get when you did get home. Granted, I did not grow up in the Canadian wilds or jungles of Borneo, but I knew from a very early age how to fend for myself overnight in the woods, and how to find my way back out. I don't recall ever having seen an altoids tin survival kit back then. Building a rudementary single person shelter and a small fire to heat it is not rocket science and does not take a magic box of ingredients.

 

[stabman]

Building a rudimentary single person shelter and a small fire to heat it is not rocket science and does not take a magic box of ingredients.

Heresy!
But totally true.

A lighter and any knife will do.
If it's dry, you might get by without the knife (more heresy).

 

[Thomas Linton]

I grew up in the country and never gave a lot of thought to problems associated with getting lost/stranded overnight, other than the worry it caused parents or the punishment you might get when you did get home. Granted, I did not grow up in the Canadian wilds or jungles of Borneo, but I knew from a very early age how to fend for myself overnight in the woods, and how to find my way back out. I don't recall ever having seen an altoids tin survival kit back then. Building a rudementary single person shelter and a small fire to heat it is not rocket science and does not take a magic box of ingredients.

There is an entire population who did not grow up knocking around the dirt-road/path universe.

I work with adolescent kids. Starting a fire is part of what they are supposed to do on occasion. Might as well be rocket science due to lack of experience. The "one match fire" is regarded as a great accomplishment.

I also work with adults (one is a NASA rocket scientist). For 99%, starting a fire without matches or a butane lighter is also rocket science. (The rocket scientist does far better.)

 

[tholiver]

General formula (for those living in the three countries in the world not using metric)-
(temperature only) going from Celsius to Fahrenheit double it and add 30. As a fast calculator it usually gets you within 5 degrees of correct.
So 20 Celsius roughly equals 70 Fahrenheit.
Of course once you go below 0 this doesn't work so well, actually once you go down to -40C -40C is the same as -40F.
WARNING: If you visit Canada do not use this formula to convert Kph to Mph or you will attain warp speed and/or get arrested, lol!

 

[22-rimfire]

I would sit for at least 10 minutes to collect my witts, take a look at my around from my stationary seat, and hopefully a lot of the pain would subside. If I didn't know which direction for sure to hobble out, I'd make a judgement on weather conditions, begin collecting some firewood to get a fire going and begin a modest lean to shelter if the wind was blowing to block the wind. If nothing else the shelter would provide some mental stability along with a fire.

I'd cut a crutch of sorts as something to do with my time while I sat around the fire.

In the morning, I would hobble out with the aid of my crutch/support. If I still had no idea which direction to go, I'd probably stay put assuming somebody knew approximately where I was headed. Otherwise, I would take my best guess and move in that direction.

 

[Codger_64]

Heresy!
But totally true.

A lighter and any knife will do.
If it's dry, you might get by without the knife (more heresy).

I have indeed gotten by well without a knife. A sharp rock or piece of broken glass will do. And while I don't prefer to, I can get by without a match or lighter. Understand that I do not come from rainforest or arctic conditions. I'm sure things change in those conditions.

There is an entire population who did not grow up knocking around the dirt-road/path universe.

I work with adolescent kids. Starting a fire is part of what they are supposed to do on occasion. Might as well be rocket science due to lack of experience. The "one match fire" is regarded as a great accomplishment.

I also work with adults (one is a NASA rocket scientist). For 99%, starting a fire without matches or a butane lighter is also rocket science. (The rocket scientist does far better.)

Understood. When I was in BSA, the firebuilding contests were boreing. Without fail I whacked 'em out and sat back watching others struggle. It was much more fun afterward to sit and teach others what I had learned on my own years befor sitting on a ditchbank cooking a fish, or frogs or a dove breast. And the lightbulb in their heads didn't light up usually until they had a buscuit wrapped with bacon broiling over a fire of their own making. I can understand that. And so could they.

 

[RescueRiley]

In the scenario, it's stating to get dark, and now I'm injured. (provided there is no cell service) I'm going to try and plant untill first light, and reassess, stumbling around through dark woods on uneven terrain on an improvised crutch, while already disoriented is a sure way to take a manageable injury and turn it into an unmanageable 1. First thing I'm goinig to do is compress my injury and elevate while I take a visual survey of my surroundings for resources before it gets completely dark. after that shelter and fire are going to be priority for me. I usally keep a couple of trick bday candles (the kind that relight after being blown out) i my kit as well as a mini bic. and some pj cotton. if I can find a length or wood long enough for a crutch, than I can find another to do a 1stick fire, which will save me the trouble of hopping around looking for stages of kindling. and once its established it will pretty accomodating as to the qualiy of wood its taking. But fire would be my 2nd priority in this situation. warm is great but wet is dead...so staying dry would be optimal...assuming that there is no Lundinesque environmentally available shelter avail in my immediate environment. I'd have to go about makng one.. The easiest way to do this while being injured would be to have one of those reflective emergency bivys. or a tube tent either premade or improvised from contractor bags and duct tape. ( I keep ductape in my kit but any space blankets , bivys etc wont fit) I do keep some contractor bags ranger banded to the outside (but that might be cheating) assumng all I have is in the tin, than I'd have to make a natural shelter..which is time consuming enough at full capacity and just down right imposing when injured. But when the situation calls for it you need to rub a lil man on it and do what you gotta do I guess. once shelter and fire are established...the safety and confidence level goes up. the evening can be used to create abetter splint for my injury, and fashion a servicable crutch. a bullion cube or 2 (which I keep in my kit) and some foil or guyot you said we have a water bottle) will go along way towards lifting my spirits. I don;t trust button compasses much and just keeping them in a tin can alter there calibration. but in combination with the morning light will help me with cardinal direction. Now I can reassess my ambulatory status and come up with a propsed route. the reality is though I always inform my wife where I m going to be and whenI expect to be home. If I'm not home at a certain time she's calling in the cavalry..she's not 1 to take a sit and wait attitude.

I did 24 hours with a knife and an altoid kit once as part of a challenge.. It was great but I will say the 24 hours without food is no joke...I was ravenous cold, and low energy after about 12 hours

But inlight of this thread myabe I'll try to do another 1 and document..Great stuff, and great ideas guys, Thanks for posting