I’m back … and I’ve gone straight.

Not cast them in bronze, freeze the moment, put them on a pedestal or give them what they can't live up to; but darn, Howard and Red Flower look happy together.

I look at Howard and am reminded of the Razor's Edge, the movie and the book, or Sidhartha by Herman Hesse, All that Stuff...self made men.

Come to think, there's a lot of you in this forum my hat's off to.
It really is amazing how many do and dare and how paths cross. This forum is amazing.



munk
 
If you are serious about an HI razor, sign me up.

Razors are supposed to be dead simple (sorry!) to sharpen. As Howard said earlier, they're hollow ground, and the sharpening angle is set by putting the thing flat on your hone. The angle formed when the spine and the sharp edge touching is the correct honing angle ... no thinking required. Just pull it spine first back and forth across the hone half a dozen times, and then the same on the strop. The old razors I bought hadn't been sharpened in decades; I used 600 then 1000 grit sandaper on plate glass first to work out the nicks, and then used my hone and strop. Worked like a charm.

Many razors have what they call a "double-hollow" grind. The bulk of the metal is taken off near the spine, then a second hollow is ground in the last 1/2 or 3/4 of an inch towards the sharp edge. That really thins out the profile near the edge for a fair distance, so in essence you'll never sharpen a steep angle onto the edge itself, even after years of use.

I like rounded corners - the one I use more regularly has these, and it really helps with the nick thing. And while a wider blade works wonderfully on big areas like the cheeks and neck, it's tougher to shave narrow bits like the upper lip. Wonder if that might explain why folks in former days used to have such splendiferous moustaches...?
 
Wonder if that might explain why folks in former days used to have such splendiferous moustaches...? Tom Fetter

They still do in the Rocky Mountain West. I've seen a few moustaches thick as wigs. One Cowboy came into the general store recently, had accidentally burned his off branding calves; what was left was still thick as the tassles from theatre curtains.



munk
 
Well, Howard, you have come back, no "tea and oranges that come all the way from China," but you say you have gone straight.

I want to know, "Did you ever go clear?"

(wondering if anyone is going to get this...)
 
Nice looking couple, there.
I myself will have to pass on the tonic...can't do the alcohol.
I think I will also pass on the straight razor shaving...not a morning person.

Oh, I forgot.
Welcome back, Howard! :thumbup:

--Mike L.
 
Howard,
Welcome back.
Nice pic. A happy couple. :D I've always been under the impression that you were older. Neither good nor bad, just an impression.
From your comment on the the rhody's you must be on the northwest coast with me. :) They lasted quite a while this year. The large bush in my front yard was just awesome!

Just what do the Kami's use to shave? Do they make their own razors?

Speaking of ebay. What would I look for in a decent razor to bid on? What should I avoid?
 
Thanks for all the welcomes.

shappa said:
I've always been under the impression that you were older. Neither good nor bad, just an impression.
Click to expand...

46 in a few days.

shappa said:
From your comment on the the rhody's you must be on the northwest coast with me. :) They lasted quite a while this year. The large bush in my front yard was just awesome!
Click to expand...

Western Washington. I misspelled our state flower (and the national flower of Nepal) in my first post. It's rhododendron. We have a number of bushes around our house (maybe 20) and they bloom at slightly different times. We still have some in full bloom and there may be a few that haven't started yet.

shappa said:
Speaking of ebay. What would I look for in a decent razor to bid on? What should I avoid?
Click to expand...

I look for a good picture of the edge. If it has giant nicks or no good picture of the edge I pass. Some people are selling useless old razors with giant nicks halfway through the blade. There are also some cheap new Pakistani straight razors on E-bay that I haven't tried but that I hear are not of good quality.

I was thinking about razors in Nepal last night. Although I'd be happy to test any initial HI efforts, I suspect it would be far wiser to do initial testing in Nepal. The kamis themselves could test, and when they have a workable model they could pay some local barbers to beta test and provide feedback. A barber does many shaves a day, whereas one of us can only do one a day. That would provide much quicker feedback on the design and craftsmanship. I don't know if there is a difference between Nepalese beards and western ones. I suspect the facial hair may be thinner and sparser as it is on many asiatics.

If shaving supplies catch on with HI, I have some other ideas for handcrafted items HI could import. It would require branching out to different types of craftsmen though. It is an interesting possibility. The potential market for traditional shaving supplies is very large.
 
Howard Wallace said:
There are also some cheap new Pakistani straight razors on E-bay that I haven't tried but that I hear are not of good quality.
Click to expand...

I've only tried one Pakistani razor, but if it's any measure of the rest of 'em, they're crap. I did try a razor that I suspect was made in India, and found it to be acceptable (read that "yup, I'll shave with that"). It's a reproduction of an 18th century piece sold by www.gggodwin.com in carbon steel with bone (real bone, not imitation) handle for 15.95 or horn for 14.95. The carbon steel blades arrive somewhat dull by razor standards, but they're well ground and easy enough to sharpen.

An HI razor? Would it be worth the kamis time and trouble? We may think so, but would they think so? Getting a perfectly symmetrical double hollow grind on a blade, with a lazer beam straight edge, is a real pain in the ass grinding by hand, been there done that. The mass production guys have marvelous grinding machines that grind both sides of the blade simultaneously, with a perfect result and a perfectly straight edge each and every time. And, due to automation, numbers produced, etc., they can keep their prices low and still show a fair profit. That's what we'd be asking the kamis to compete with. Yes, I know, mass produced doesn't have the "soul" of handmade, but let me put it another way. The world is absolutely teeming with custom knifemakers.
How many of them boys are cranking out handmade straight razors? Why not, if a market for such truly exists?

Yes, I'd like to see an HI razor, and I'd like to own one, but I felt it only fair to present the "other side of the coin". The kamis specialty is khukuris, and they make 'em better than perhaps anybody in the world could. However, I've got a brand new, shave you right out of the box, double hollow ground razor, made of cast crucible Sheffield steel, heat treated in molten lead, and made by a company that's been making razors for 122 years, that I know in my heart the kamis can't even come close to. Nossir, not even close. Are we being fair asking them to try? Especially when excellent antique razors out of Sheffield, Solingen, etc., can be had all day long for less than a case of beer? My Wade and Butcher, certified as Civil War era, and in very good to excellent condition, set me back the princely sum of sixty whole dollars, but that was just sentimentality on my part, I later picked up a really nice Wade and Butcher at a gun show for twenty. Just out of curiosity, what y'all reckon the HI razor would sell for? Would the price be competitive while still fairly compensating the kamis for their time and trouble hollow grinding razors by hand?

I don't like being a wet blanket, but anytime we set about asking the kamis to chew what we bite off for 'em, well, we need to, out of fairness to them, look at all the angles first. I knew the Rusty Sgian Dubh would turn out well, 'cause it's just a differently shaped knife and they're damned good at making knives. A razor, a folding knife, with a blade deeply hollow ground down to a paper thin and perfectly straight edge, would be somewhat of a departure for them don't you think? I'd buy one out of loyalty to HI, but I already own better razors than they have the means to make, and cheaper than they could afford to sell 'em, so loyalty is all it would be. Bottom line, I don't see this as a portion of the market that it would be profitable for HI to exploit, as opposed to the sgian dubhs, which, if made in an unmarked version, would be incredibly competitive and marketable. Just need to tap into that particular market and watch the knives fly off the shelves. Cool factor aside, the kamis got to feed their families. If they went to the time and trouble to crank out some handmade straight razors, it'd be mostly just 'cause we asked 'em to, so put me down as respectfully opposed.

Sarge
 
That's why we talk about this stuff, Sarge, to find out.
If the hollow grind is too much I guess it won't happen.
What is a fair price for a handmade razor?
60 bucks?
And would that be as good as somebodyelses?

munk
 
munk said:
That's why we talk about this stuff, Sarge, to find out.
If the hollow grind is too much I guess it won't happen.
What is a fair price for a handmade razor?
60 bucks?
And would that be as good as somebodyelses?

munk
Click to expand...

Munk, I would never underestimate the kami's skills and abilities, and I ain't saying they can't make a perfectly fine hollow ground razor. I'm just saying it would truly be a pain in the butt getting a blade perfectly hollow ground, with an edge that thin, and that perfectly straight (an absolute requirement for a razor), and doing it all by free hand grinding. A razor is a precision instrument, and one area of the cutlery field where factory made generally surpasses hand made. Yes, you can still buy so called "hand made" razors, but you can bet your bottom dollar that blade was ground in a machine built for that purpose.

Sixty bucks a fair price? Don't know. If I'm a kami and I can crank out two regular knives in the same amount of time, and both of 'em sell for sixty bucks or more, is sixty bucks a fair price? If I'm a consumer, and I can buy no less than three antique straight razors from very old and reputable firms for that same amount, is sixty bucks a fair price? Begin to see the conundrum?

Ain't blowing smoke on this one. As much as I'd love to have an HI razor, the world don't turn based on what I want.

Sarge
 
I think you've overdrawn your point, Sarge. No need to. We're in the same car- we want good things for HI.

Is there any kind of razor used for shaving not 'hollow' ground?





munk
 
BTW- It's a darn good thing Sarge spoke up about the troubles with razors. Does any one else know anything more ?

Yangdu likes challenges but feasible ones are best, I think.

munk
 
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